BvS That thing called MAGIC!!!

[Marvin]

@Roach
Just noticed there is a thread for this.

In brief if I understand your thinking, it's that even if in the future we devise the tech that can do anything magic can, there will be a fundamental difference between creating teleport decks manned by a nasa crew and a woman in fishnets snapping her fingers.
If that is where you are coming from, that's all well and good however I believe the issue as stated was that what is being done 'cannot be explained' by science. That is it cannot even be understood. This is where we disagree I don't need Reed Richards to replicate the phenomena of snapping his fingers and making **** happen but if he can understand and explain what fundamental forces of our or any universe that are being tapped and triggered....and even if he can't, there is the possibly that some mind out there can.
This would fall into my definition of 'something being explained' but not entirely replicated, by science. Which would make it comparable to 'The big bang'. The simple understanding of what is happening, even if it's all together beyond our means.

Equations on a chalk board are underrated. That being said, I actually agree with your demands. No need to explain it, just treat it like magic. I just can't imagine Reed not seeing it my way and that's what I find important.

 

[John Locke]

Magic shouldn't have an explanation. Although I could see someone like Flash trying to find an explanation to no avail.

 

[Marvin]

Magic shouldn't have an explanation. Although I could see someone like Flash trying to find an explanation to no avail.

That doesn't mean there isn't one.

 

[Bathead]

That doesn't mean there isn't one.

True, but the explanation doesn't have to be a scientific one based on advanced technology.

 

[Marvin]

True, but the explanation doesn't have to be a scientific one based on advanced technology.

I personally don't think there should be an explanation or one even explored(in film). I just find it odd stating that one doesn't exist. That line of thinking takes us back so far in terms of scientific discovery and understanding in the face of something unbelievable or miraculous.
imo.

 

[roach]

I personally don't think there should be an explanation or one even explored(in film). I just find it odd stating that one doesn't exist. That line of thinking takes us back so far in terms of scientific discovery and understanding in the face of something unbelievable or miraculous.
imo.

It's magic. Science can't explain it. The Laws and rules of science don't apply to magic. It doesn't set us back because we're talking about a fictional thing.

 

[Marvin]

It's magic. Science can't explain it. The Laws and rules of science don't apply to magic. It doesn't set us back because we're talking about a fictional thing.

The laws and rules of science aren't set in stone, they have been re-written time and again. Agree to disagree I suppose.

 

[Enriquespy]

Magic is a useful spice to enhace the flavor of stories and enable situations. let her do that job here!!

EDIT: Magic a she by the way.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Magic is a cruel mistress.

 

[Airwings]

Well, if I may use a few small examples from some role-playing games and fantasy novels, at it's simplest, magic as used by wizards and such usually comes from within the magic user themselves, either that or they can tap into a universal source of power(the aether), magic as used by clerics and shamans comes from their gods.
Also, Nature itself and even death can be a source sometimes.

Can the outcome be still the same or is each different magic source a completely different "science" (wrong use of word, but I hope you understand what I mean).
The Gods, where do them get their power from? If it isn't the universal source, what else?
If the wizard hold the power within, isn't it just a product of nature?

 

[Bathead]

Can the outcome be still the same or is each different magic source a completely different "science" (wrong use of word, but I hope you understand what I mean).
The Gods, where do them get their power from? If it isn't the universal source, what else?
If the wizard hold the power within, isn't it just a product of nature?

It really depends on the individual story and writer, it's different each time. I was just giving a very generalized example on different sources for magic, ideas I've gotten from various fantasy books I've read over the years.
Generally, though, different sources result in different types of magic, For example, in a given story, wizardry might generally be destructive in nature (fireballs and lightning spells for example) while magic from the gods could be more benevolent (healing, the conjuring of food, resurrection). It all really depends on how magic works in the world the author has created. I even read one story here all of the magic and magical creatures in the world turned out to be because of a mutant fungus. It sounds silly, but in the context of that particular story and how it was written, it worked.

 

[regwec]

I don't think any kind of spurious scientific explanation is needed, but I strongly oppose any suggestion being made that it is "outside science", because that is meaningless and impossible. The best option may be to represent it as an unknown external force that can be internalised or harnessed, rather like the "Force" of Star Wars. You can then describe is in a occult-like way as "the winds of magic" or something similar, without obviously excluding it from the realm of reality.

 

[roach]

In my mind magic falls into three categories...Internal, External and Granted.

Internal is the magic comes from you. Think of it like the force. The user generates magic power and uses it.

External is the magic comes from something you wield. A ring, a wand, a helmet...the magic comes from something else.

Granted is when a mystic entity grants you an ability. This is where the saying of a magic spell comes in...usually to ask for a specific entity for help. This is comic's Dr. Strange as he draws power from Agamotto, Cyttorak, The Faltine, Ikonn, Oshtur, Raggadur, The Seraphim and Watoomb.

 

[regwec]

I think "the Force" is both external and internal, on your analysis. It binds everything together. The crappy prequels tried to make it a genetic gift and put the concept within the field of eugenics, but that idea sucks.

 

[roach]

I think "the Force" is both external and internal, on your analysis. It binds everything together. The crappy prequels tried to make it a genetic gift and put the concept within the field of eugenics, but that idea sucks.

I will agree that it's both external and internal. I've always felt that that a person's ability to master the force was more about them internally....way before the prequels. Luke being the son of a Jedi, seems to make him strong in the force.