'That was our kiss!!!!' Query?

[DACrowe]

I think we can agree MJ blew it out of proportion, but a lot of this thread strikes me as guys just siding with guys and not quite getting some women.

Peter did do several hurtful things to MJ in this movie and she blew it out of proportion but he is not absolved of his fair share of mistakes. But this thread is just another excuse to bash Dunst/this movie. So what more do you expect from fanboys?

 

[The Joker]

I think we can agree MJ blew it out of proportion

Most definitely.

but a lot of this thread strikes me as guys just siding with guys and not quite getting some women.

It's not a question of understanding why MJ was angry. It's agreeing with her right to get so angry that's being disputed.

But this thread is just another excuse to bash Dunst/this movie. So what more do you expect from fanboys?

We don't really need any excuse to bash movie MJ. She's a poorly written character, with little morals, who can't seem to be without a man for more than 5 seconds.

As Dragon said, she throws her feminine wiles around like ninja stars. In the face of a crisis she runs to another man rather than sitting down and talking it out.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Most definitely.



It's not a question of understanding why MJ was angry. It's agreeing with her right to get so angry that's being disputed.



We don't really need any excuse to bash movie MJ. She's a poorly written character, with little morals, who can't seem to be without a man for more than 5 seconds.

As Dragon said, she throws her feminine wiles around like ninja stars. In the face of a crisis she runs to another man rather than sitting down and talking it out.

She is not a poorly written character, she is a psychologically scarred character. Has anyone else noticed she mentions her drunk father every movie, and saw her get yelled at by him in SM1?

When she sees problems, she runs away from them because she pictures her father in a lot of these cases. It is part of a mental scar, not her being a ****.

Also, if I kissed gave a women a peck on the lips for show in front of another girl, I would be on the couch for a week. That is most women guys, be realistic about that.

Before someone says "BS, she isn't scarred, no psychology", my sister is a lot like MJ when it comes to dating and getting close for some of the very same reasons.

 

[DieSmiling]

She has a right to be mad.

 

[Eggyman]

At a push, I can forgive MJ for getting upset (even kind of understand it), but my view is that if she does get upset she should deal with it, because she does not have the right kind of history to be taking the moral high-ground about it.

I almost forgot what she did instead of getting over it and moving on . . .

 

[The Joker]

She is not a poorly written character, she is a psychologically scarred character. Has anyone else noticed she mentions her drunk father every movie, and saw her get yelled at by him in SM1?

Whether she has daddy issues or not, that does NOT excuse her behaviour at all. That's like excusing psychos killing people because they're mentally disturbed.

She dates Harry, even though she's clearly not attracted to him. She kisses Spider-Man while still dating Harry, then claims she's in love with Spider-Man when she doesn't know jack about him. Then at the end she tells Peter she's in love with him

Two years later she gets engaged to another guy, who again, she does not love. While with him, she tries to get with Peter, then jilts John at the altar leaving him a note. How nice of her.

Then she finally gets with Peter, they have some problems, instead of talking to him about them, she goes to Harry, and ends up *GASP* kissing him as well.

Psychologically scarred, my eye.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Whether she has daddy issues or not, that does NOT excuse her behaviour at all. That's like excusing psychos killing people because they're mentally disturbed.

She dates Harry, even though she's clearly not attracted to him. She kisses Spider-Man while still dating Harry, then claims she's in love with Spider-Man when she doesn't know jack about him. Then at the end she tells Peter she's in love with him

Two years later she gets engaged to another guy, who again, she does not love. While with him, she tries to get with Peter, then jilts John at the altar leaving him a note. How nice of her.

Then she finally gets with Peter, they have some problems, instead of talking to him about them, she goes to Harry, and ends up *GASP* kissing him as well.

Psychologically scarred, my eye.

I am not excusing her...she does blow things out of proportion and doesn't do what is right. But their is a psychological basis for why she does it. This makes her a not poorly written character. You said she was poorly written. I could go on and describe a psychological basis for why she hooks up with two rich and famous people and desires to be an actress, but I'll leave that for later...trying to go to Transformers today, and may have to leave soon.

She is not pardoned, but I can't hate her for acting the way she does, much like I can look at a guy who kills someone sleepwalking more slack than someone 100% aware.

 

[DACrowe]

Most definitely.



It's not a question of understanding why MJ was angry. It's agreeing with her right to get so angry that's being disputed.



We don't really need any excuse to bash movie MJ. She's a poorly written character, with little morals, who can't seem to be without a man for more than 5 seconds.

As Dragon said, she throws her feminine wiles around like ninja stars. In the face of a crisis she runs to another man rather than sitting down and talking it out.

I have always respecteed your opinon Doc and think you are one of the most fair and even handed on this forum when it comes to the Spidey movies (though we don't always agree). I still must disagree in that MJ's reason to be angry was not justified. Take it from her positon as a character.

She has gone through possibly the crappiest week of her life. She lost her job, she wouldn't tell her confidant and lover because he was having a high point for him (a day in the city in his honor) only to have him unexpectedly kiss another woman for publicity in the same way they first kissed. She then finds out that woman is in fact a girl in Peter's class who obviously likes Peter as she was flirting with him rihgt in front of her.

I don't think she needed to blow up and walk out. But it was a case of miscommunication. Peter is just as guilty for that bone headed decision to kiss this friend the same way he kissed MJ in front of her and being too egocentric to notice MJ is going through a terrible time.

I think the last scene justifies both. And I stand by I'd rather have this fractured couple with real problems than the Turners from the Pirates sequels.

 

[Eggyman]

There's girls like that all over my town of Manchester -- we call them tarts and slappers.

Bit harsh, but MJ hasn't done herself any favours in these films. I'm sure that when making these films they didn't intend to make me shout at the TV: 'Dump MJ -- Go get Betty!' I should be routing for the lead guy to end up with the leading female, but I feel like telling him to run like the wind and escape the relationship addict.

 

[November Rain]

But this thread is just another excuse to bash Dunst/this movie. So what more do you expect from fanboys?

That honestly wasn't my intention.

 

[Eggyman]

Just like to say (hope you're listening DACrowe ) that I never intended to badmouth Dunst -- it's more the direction of the MJ character that bothered me in Spider-Man 3 (which, BTW, I loved).

I like the mechanics though -- these kinds of character flaws are what have made the characters in these films three dimensional, not flat, good or bad, lifeless imitations.

 

[*ANTHONY*]

well, in the first film she was jsut a teenager. She was still very young and growing up, in which she was still getting mentally abused. In #2, she is on her own and growing up. She has found someone else, but not to cheat on Peter. She hasn't seen him and they never did go out. She still misses him, as you can tell. When she was with John, its because she never expected to see Peter ever again. SHe sees him and makes a choice of being with him. In #3, they are together. It is right after #2. MJ is first starting to realize she has to share Peter, or Spidey with the rest of the city. She starts to have jealousy. In her heart, she is still that popular teenager in her high school that everyone knows. She misses that.

 

[J.Jonah Jameson]

I didn't read through all the pages, but when she kissed john her and john were a couple, when Spidey kisses Gwen, he and MJ were a couple, so I'd say she had a right to be pissed.

 

[Spade]

They were? The way I saw it, MJ had no clue what she wanted. There isn't a scene in SM2 that alludes to her and John actually being enamored with one another. I don't think after a guy saves your life going on 3 times and confesses absolute love for you, to the point where he gave up being the city's protector all for the love of you, that he should be cajoled for doing what he did. The way she explodes, one would think Peter was jobless or having sex with multiple women on the side. One kiss- especially after her kiss with John invalidated the whole "our kiss" claim- would not destroy them. She let it destroy them because of her own lack of logic. That's why I can't feel sympathy for her in this movie. I've gone to high school, and this seems less like a fully grown woman and more like a petulant airhead than Mary Jane Watson.

 

[J.Jonah Jameson]

She didn't have a clue what she wanted, but she was engaged to John where she had a right to kiss him. Peter and MJ are together in SM3 so when he kisses Gwen I would think she had a right to be upset. I do agree tho that MJ needs to grow, she needs to stop being this selfish little bitatch in these movies, because she seemed overly whiney in the last one.

btw, love the avvy Chibi

 

[Spider-Girl™]

So you're telling me you would have no problems if (lets say)Spider-girl was your girlfriend and she kissed a dude upside infront of you knowing you were there? Its outright disrespectful. I could see if it was planned or whatever, but it was a spur of the moment thing.

Good cause I do it all the time jk jk

She didn't have a clue what she wanted, but she was engaged to John where she had a right to kiss him. Peter and MJ are together in SM3 so when he kisses Gwen I would think she had a right to be upset. I do agree tho that MJ needs to grow, she needs to stop being this selfish little bitatch in these movies, because she seemed overly whiney in the last one.

btw, love the avvy Chibi

I think that what they are saying is since Mary Jane can use it on John in Spider-man 2 why would she get so upset about Peter using it. I believe she had a right to be upset about the kiss, but not the upside-down aspect of it.

 

[SPider-T0rch]

There's girls like that all over my town of Manchester -- we call them tarts and slappers.

Bit harsh, but MJ hasn't done herself any favours in these films. I'm sure that when making these films they didn't intend to make me shout at the TV: 'Dump MJ -- Go get Betty!' I should be routing for the lead guy to end up with the leading female, but I feel like telling him to run like the wind and escape the relationship addict.

that's it. that's why i felt mj was, in my words, a "stupid, fickle ****ebag".
we all want the hero of the story get the girl but this girl just gets annoying in the longrun. i understand that she has problems (who doesnt) but hasnt peter told her about how problematic his life has been since he became spider-man? you'd think she'd understand if he was able to live a little. cmon peter was "emo" in the last two movies but finally he's happy. that's what i was looking foward to in the movie; Spider-Man (and peter) acting the way they were in the comics: not uber stressed. i know some will not agree with me on this but isnt mj being just a little selfish for exploding after seeing her b/f, who hasnt really had a spectacular life, live a little?

 

[xwolverine2]

Do you think MJ has any right to be really angry at pete for kissing Gwen with the inverted kiss (in spidey 3)when MJ has technically been doing the same with every dude she has dated up to and including John Jameson to find out whether they are spiderman or not (in spidey 2)?

shes a stupid hypocrit *****!

she kissed jameson like that and later ****ed herself to harry

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I mean MJ is a very depressed girl in This Film. Peter just didn't think MJ was so depressed. Peter pretty much let his confidence over do it. He made MJ so sad and depressed by kissing another girl. It was the wrong move for Peter to do. Look at it this way, MJ was first bothered by the critics review on MJ's play. Peter tells MJ that they are going to be laughing about it tomorow night. But He makes a false move by Kissing another girl and not only that but doing the same Kiss Spidey and MJ did. Peter didn't think of MJ when He did it.

Sure MJ kissed John with the same Kiss but she knew who Her true love was. She when't to Harry because She was too nervous to face Peter herself. She wants to be happy and when She kissed Harry, she realized it was the wrong thing to do hence why She left. Peter never wanted to get togeather with Gwen.

I mean MJ was bothered and upset by the fact the Peter kissed Gwen but when Gwen started putting Her hands on Peter, thats when MJ really got upset. MJ never had a happy and cheerful life to begin with. She moved from Guy to Guy because She didn't know who Her true love was. Then She found Peter. MJ started to get depressed when they said "Her voice didn't carry past the first row". MJ is pretty much overwhelmed when She see's Spidey kissing Gwen. Hence why She left the crowd after She stared at them for a few seconds.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

My 2cents on MJ in this franchise are as fallows.

Spider-Man
Her "relationships" with Flash, Harry and Spider-Man are all very consistent, she's the teenage girl looking for "what's hot," you have Flash, the popular jock, you have Harry, the millionaire's son and Spider-Man the dashing hero. Now not to sound sexiest but is the average teenage girl going to find these three unattractive? She's attractive to social status not what's important.

Flash seemed like an ass so she is well rid of him.

Harry treated her the same way that she treated him, she was a trophy. She can't tell him that she works at a restaurant, he wants her to wear black to impress his father [sounds like it's her personality Harry thinks is important huh] then when it mattered, when Norman basically called her ****, Harry didn't defend her beyond a half hearted "You're wrong about her" then flew off the handle at her because she was upset by it. He's a keeper.

Spider-Man is Spider-Man, I'm lot's of girls would develop a crush on him, and that's all it is despite her calling it love, plus if you want to talk about her kissing Spider-Man you have to talk about Peter kissing his best friends girl as well.

Then she grows up and fall's for a guy who likes her for the right reasons and starts likening him for the right reasons. Peter then rejects her.

Spider-Man 2
She's dating John Jameson A.K.A. a reliable Peter Parker. Jameson is Peter in everyway, loyal, loving, heroic but he's there for an 8 o clock curtain as well. But as much as he is like Peter is not Peter and she is trying to fool herself into thinking that she loves him. Then Peter she goes to Peter and makes a mistake by nearly kissing him, sure its wrong but it's understandable, she is still only 19/20 after all. Of course when she runs out of the wedding that can be construed as selfish but it's better than having two people in a sham marriage. Whether it right that she gave him a note is questionable because we are never shown the aftermath, maybe she spoke to him at a later date, considering Jonah treats Peter in the same way as always I think it is very possible she did.

Spider-Man 3
MJ career is in tatters and all Peter talks about is himself. His only advice is that he got trough it, guess what, she's not him, she's not Spider-Man, she doesn't risk her life everyday for others, she doesn't have his courage, she has to get through this her own way, not his. Now you could say that she should tell him this but he she can't because every conversation is ended abruptly by Spider-Man, can you blame her for talking with Harry. They have a moment and they kiss, is it wrong? Yes! Is it understandable? Yes! Now look at Peter and Gwen. Gwen is ****ing hot, Peter tutor's Gwen, doesn't tell MJ about her why? Because he is spanking the monkey thinking about her, that's why. As much as you guys want to say that he did it for publicity that's not the case, he did it because he wanted to kiss Gwen and get away with it because he is Spider-Man at that moment, he wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

As for people who want to call MJ a **** for kissing, nothing more is ever implied five men in 5 years, you need to get out into the real world lads. Also you want the party girl from the 60's right? Well what do you think of when you think of a party girl? A girl that goes out and dances but always remembers he chastity belt?

 

[The Joker]

I am not excusing her...she does blow things out of proportion and doesn't do what is right. But their is a psychological basis for why she does it.

There is no psychological basis. That's just your own theorey, dude. You're putting it down to her father, when in fact the only time she mentions her father is in no relation to her relationships.

In SM-2, she uses her dad showing up at her play to illustrate that even he can make it to her plays, when Peter cannot. Her deadbeat dad can make it to the play, even if it is just to borrow cash, but her best friend cannot.

In SM-3, she says the bad review sounds like her dad saying those words. That's in relation again to her career.

I can't see how you're relating her dad to her throwing her feminine wiles around the way she does.

I have always respecteed your opinon Doc and think you are one of the most fair and even handed on this forum when it comes to the Spidey movies (though we don't always agree).

Thank you. And likewise with you.

She has gone through possibly the crappiest week of her life. She lost her job, she wouldn't tell her confidant and lover because he was having a high point for him (a day in the city in his honor) only to have him unexpectedly kiss another woman for publicity in the same way they first kissed. She then finds out that woman is in fact a girl in Peter's class who obviously likes Peter as she was flirting with him rihgt in front of her.

Ok, a few points here:

1. Peter has had far worse days than that, and you don't see him behaving in an immature fashion.

2. MJ chose not to tell Peter about being fired. That was her choice. She could of told Peter after it happened, as it was clearly not on the same day as the Spider-Man festival. But she didn't. Then she gets upset with Peter because he doesn't understand how she feels. He cannot understand something he does not know.

3. Gwen was not flirting with Peter. If that's flirting, then I get flirted with all the time. Lucky me. She put her hand on his shoulder, and said what a genius he is in school and a great help to her with her studies. She also said Peter talks about MJ all the time, indicating he really loves her. If that's flirting then I'm the king of england.

I don't think she needed to blow up and walk out. But it was a case of miscommunication. Peter is just as guilty for that bone headed decision to kiss this friend the same way he kissed MJ in front of her and being too egocentric to notice MJ is going through a terrible time.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. As for Peter being egocentric, I'd love to see how you can justify saying that. He was nothing but supportive to MJ. She told him to "Don't give me the horse thing". She shot him down when he was trying to boost her spirits. She didn't tell him she was fired. She was jealous he was getting some long awaited gratitude and recognition for his heroics.

She's the egocentric, immature one. Not Peter.

As for people who want to call MJ a **** for kissing, nothing more is ever implied five men in 5 years, you need to get out into the real world lads.

You're confusing real time with movie time. There was a two year gap between SM-1 and SM-2. And an unspecified time, presumably a few months, between SM-2 and SM-3.

So MJ was alot friskier with her lips in a shorter amount of time. Not 5 years. And every time she's snogging some other guy, she's already in a relationship with someone else.

 

[Spade]

As for people who want to call MJ a **** for kissing, nothing more is ever implied five men in 5 years, you need to get out into the real world lads. Also you want the party girl from the 60's right? Well what do you think of when you think of a party girl? A girl that goes out and dances but always remembers he chastity belt?

If we as the audience can believe that Peter is so hard on luck and so geeky after getting powers that give him the ability to crush small trucks into tattered metal and swing wherever he chooses, then they can create a Mary Jane who isn't so hypocritical over what is and isn't material to crow over. I don't think that's a hard feat.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

DaCrowe sort of hit the nail on the head with the years of psychological abuse that she suffered under her father.

The girl's going to be mentally insecure. So when she loses her job, sees Peter making out with a girl that he knows, and doesn't tell her, all those insecurities are going to come bubbling up to the surface bad.

Seriously, I've suffered under my own share of difficulties and that **** messes you up inside.

That's like excusing psychos killing people because they're mentally disturbed.

I think its called: Innocent by reason of insanity.

 

[The Joker]

I think its called: Innocent by reason of insanity.

Which is BS! That's like saying The Green Goblin or The Joker are innocent of their crimes because they're insane. They know what they're doing is wrong. They just don't care.

MJ's behaviour is wrong, and having a lousy father doesn't excuse that.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Which is BS! That's like saying The Green Goblin or The Joker are innocent of their crimes because they're insane. They know what they're doing is wrong. They just don't care.

As I understand it (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) to get off on insanity, you have to be able to prove you didn't understand the moral implications of your actions.

As nuts as the Joker and GG are they're both pretty lucid (and logical) when they need to be so they wouldn't be able to use the insanity plea.

MJ's behaviour is wrong, and having a lousy father doesn't excuse that.

No, but it can help explain where it comes from. You can't hate on someone for the damage that they suffered from their parents.