The 2012 Presidential Debates: Vice-Presidential Debate

[SV Fan]

This is what it is: people are either going to call it a draw, or a Biden win. Headlines tomorrow will say "even debate" or "Biden win". That is big. I do not think anybody could have realistically thought Biden would ever be an asset to this campaign, but tonight, he made Demorcrats proud. I think most expected a gaffe, or something hardly impressive. Biden really killed it.

I said it before Biden is a better debater then Obama, plan and simple

 

[Excel]

Fox is saying draw, MSNBC calling Dems win. Not as big of a blow out as last time, but if anybody won, it was clearly Joe.

So not a runaway victory for either party?

I guess the poll numbers should remain stable for now.

Romney was always going to fall back to Earth, this will speed it up. A week from right now, everybody is going to remember Ryan getting pushed around. All I could think of was Newt Gingrich in SC.

On a very noteworthy note - WOMEN were the area Romney was making big gains with the past week. Ryan's views on abortion & wars in the middle east will not help them there.

 

[bell110]

The abortion wedge dance - we have heard that so many god damn times. It would have been refreshing to actually hear something different and original like SCOTUS appointments.

What are they going to say? Republicans will chose a conservative, Democrats will chose a liberal. You can't predict what cases will come along, or how the Justices will actually decide. But knowing the candidates view on abortion helps.

 

[Kelly]

Biden would have won it in clear fashion if he had cut the weird grinning ****. He didn't have to say anything differently at all. Just that one simple act was all he needed to do.

I'll have to read the transcript.....I was announcing a Community Homecoming Pep Rally while the debate was on.....

 

[SV Fan]

I guess the poll numbers should remain stable for now.

I am guessing this turns a few "registered voters" into "likely voters" for Democrats, so slight bump for Dems

 

[hitmanyr2k]

It's been reported several times before the debate that Obama hates Romney quite passionately. It has nothing to do with Romney lying throughout the debate, he didn't even like him to begin with and even from the start Obama showed his contempt for him.

Does anyone really like or respect Mitt Romney other than his family? Even in the primaries Republicans obviously hated the guy. Huntsman with the "well-lubricated weathervane" comment. Gingrich and Santorum flat out called him a liar. The weakest primary field ever and he could barely win most states without pouring money into them. I think people just see the guy as a charlatan. And if Obama hated him before the debate I'm pretty sure that contempt was tenfold by the time the first debate was over

 

[GoldCrest]

Well, the CNN's group of undecided voters were split. 1/3 thought Biden won, 1/3 thought Ryan won, and 1/3 is undecided.

 

[chaseter]

This is what it is: people are either going to call it a draw, or a Biden win. Headlines tomorrow will say "even debate" or "Biden win". That is big. I do not think anybody could have realistically thought Biden would ever be an asset to this campaign, but tonight, he made Demorcrats proud. I think most expected a gaffe, or something hardly impressive. Biden really killed it.

No they won't. CNN is saying it's a tie. Their independent voter room said it was a tie.

It was a tie. Ryan did a little worse than expected and Biden did a little better and yet they said it was a tie. That means people thought Biden was worse going into the debate (which was my view as well).

 

[Excel]

Biden would have won it in clear fashion if he had cut the weird grinning ****. He didn't have to say anything differently at all. Just that one simple act was all he needed to do.

A point was made in a politico article earlier today. It argued that debates matter, unlike what some say. However, what matters is what people remember in 2 weeks.

It has only been a week, but what people remember from debate 1 is Obama being reserved. Not so much Romney killing it, mind you. He did well enough, but it was more like Obama just not doing anything.

2 weeks from now, everybody is going to remember Biden's 90 minute lecture to Ryan, which made it clear why one is an incumbent, and why one is not. There is no argument which can say Ryan won tonight. That is what matters.

 

[bell110]

You are the one who said something ridiculous and are now trying to walk it back.

You calling me a conservative is like Obama calling Clinton a conservative. When you are so far left, anything to the right is conservative.

What did I say that was ridiculous? That abortion also affects a man? And what am I walking back?

So, you're SHH's resident Clinton? Gotcha, won't make the same mistake.

 

[Excel]

Ryan did a little worse than expected and Biden did a little better and yet they said it was a tie.

So Biden over performed, and Ryan under performed. That is further evidence of a Biden win.

 

[chaseter]

Fox is saying draw, MSNBC calling Dems win. Not as big of a blow out as last time, but if anybody won, it was clearly Joe.

Matt said it best earlier when he quoted you:

 

[Kelly]

The little bit I have seen, and what I have heard....

Biden laughed a lot.....that is all I've gotten so far...lol

 

[SV Fan]

It has only been a week, but what people remember from debate 1 is Obama being reserved.

Big Bird :P

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Biden owned this debate

 

[chaseter]

So Biden over performed, and Ryan under performed. That is further evidence of a Biden win.

Jesus H. Christ.

If a horse is limping before a race and the other won is jumping through hoops and they both cross the finish line at the same time....that is a TIE. Holy crap.

 

[Excel]

The little bit I have seen, and what I have heard....

Biden laughed a lot.....that is all I've gotten so far...lol

Biden nailed both roles as prosecutor of Ryan and defense attorney of Obama.

You should watch it. 90% of Biden's debate was extremely, surprisingly impressive.

 

[Fading]

This was a good debate, much better than when he went against Palin, and much, much better than Obama Vs. Romney. Also funny to think how a lot of ppl here though Biden was going to be a gaffe machine, Biden's a debate man. He may gaffe in speeches, and get caught sleeping, but he brings his A game to debates.




Personally, I think Biden takes the win in nearly all areas. I agree his laughing came off as rude, but at the same time the VP debates are about being agressive, not being likeable. Biden beat Ryan on substance (again, IMO), came off stronger, and hit the zingers Obama can't if he wants to stay likeable. He mentioned 47% & 30%, "Let Detroit go bankrupt", brought the Ryan plan back into the spotlight, and showed his experience in the foreign policy areas. However I don't think it was a beating either. Ryan did hold his own for the most part, and should be proud of his performance. I don't think it was a blow out, but I do think Biden walks away with a clear win.

I think what Biden did tonight was reopen old wounds on the Romney camp, while stopping some of the bleeding on his own. Which I think is the most important thing he could have done. I also think Ryan did his camp a bit of diservice in the long run. He agreed with the Obama white house on two issues, saying the difference, more or less, would only be possible with a time machine. He also (thanks to the moderator) played into the fuzzy on the details image (which I blame more on the Romney campaign than Ryan).

As far as substance, that's a political thing. I just happen to line up more with Biden, and next to zilch with Ryan. So anything I say on that will be more opinion than an objective look at the debate. Plus the Ryan plan has been talked to death.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

You are the one who said he is lying....because you know all these numbers by heart to definitely say that he is wrong on the spot the second after he says something. You are the one making the assertion.

Romney/Ryan's economic policy are speculative at this point. Obama/Biden's economics are 1.3 trillion deficits and a $16 trillion debt. If Obama is in office again, the CBO reports that the debt will be over $20 trillion. Obama can't even pass a budget...what are you talking about?

Ok so you can't pull up any of the supposed 6 studies, got ya

 

[Excel]

Jesus H. Christ.

If a horse is limping before a race and the other won is jumping through hoops and they both cross the finish line at the same time....that is a TIE. Holy crap.

No it isn't. Expectations are everything, and if you disagree, explain why Romney and Obama spent so much time talking about "prepared" their opponent would be going into last week?

Seriously, expectations are extremely important. Biden won outright anyway, but considering expectations, this is both surprising and important for the dems.

 

[Paradoxium]

Purely not on substance, Biden had more control and authority. But that weird mocking grin, if he didn't do that crap, you wouldn't have all these "draw" or kinda/sorta win thing. That god damn grin was irritating as hell.

 

[chaseter]

Ok so you can't pull up any of the supposed 6 studies, got ya

You are the one that made the assertion. How did you know Ryan's numbers were wrong the second he said them? Where are the studies that back up your assertion. I made no assertions. You did. Now prove them.

You then critique Romney/Ryan's budget when Obama can't even pass a budget that his side agrees with. Why can't Obama pass a budget? Is not passing a budget a good economic policy?

 

[Kelly]

Ok so you can't pull up any of the supposed 6 studies, got ya

Here is one of them......

https://www.princeton.edu/ceps/workingpapers/228rosen.pdf

They aren't that hard to find, just google....

 

[chaseter]

No it isn't. Expectations are everything, and if you disagree, explain why Romney and Obama spent so much time talking about "prepared" their opponent would be going into last week?

Seriously, expectations are extremely important. Biden won outright anyway, but considering expectations, this is both surprising and important for the dems.

I want to live in your world where a tie is a win. You need to run the odds in Vegas. You will be a millionaire in no time.

 

[Excel]

I want to live in your world where a tie is a win. You need to run the odds in Vegas. You will be a millionaire in no time.

So expecs dont matter?