The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Jan, you're not the only one who's annoyed with the whole "Fox loyalists" and "Wolverine fanboys" mentality that runs rampant with the people who didn't enjoy the movie, like LastSunrise and stuff.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Jan, you're not the only one who's annoyed with the whole "Fox loyalists" and "Wolverine fanboys" mentality that runs rampant with the people who didn't enjoy the movie, like LastSunrise and stuff.

Yessir... I sail that same boat.

 

[XCharlieX]

Nell many of your recent posts are great and intelligent. especially in the "did x3 ruin the franchise thread" just like to say.

I think many folks cant accept the fact that x3 did indeed have qualities of a winner and some have noticed. Its in there imo. Fox loyalty has nothing to do with it as i think fox does mismanage many of their properties.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Nell many of your recent posts are great and intelligent. especially in the "did x3 ruin the franchise thread" just like to say.

I think many folks cant accept the fact that x3 did indeed have qualities of a winner and some have noticed. Its in there imo. Fox loyalty has nothing to do with it as i think fox does mismanage many of their properties.

In my opinion, the movie did many things right.

Some people dislike the movie. I disagree with their opinion, however, given the circumstances of this film, I can see why those people dislike this film.

I, however, don't appreciate being called a loyalist, or any other term, because I enjoyed the movie, didn't feel it contradicted with the first 2, and felt satisfied with most of the developments in the film.

Whereas those that didn't like the film can shoot out a list of what was done wrong, I can shoot out a list just as long, if not longer, of what was right with the film.

Thank you for the compliment, by the way.

 

[Retroman]

The problem is that Halle and Hugh have been put front and center for the movie. Even Zak (I believe it was him) admitted it. Just about everyone else has been put on the backburner because of it.

I kind of feel the same way.Its definetly not a jealousy thing.

 

[Hotaru]

I read only half of this thread and feel like ready to state my opinion.

I understand that Hugh was the franchise's engine and that his Wolverine was dominating in all three movies. Logan's even dominating in comic-books (not only X-Men, but Avengers as well), so that's not out-of-character for him . I really can't imagine a better movie-Wolvie than him, even though I find his performance in the third movie repeatable. I don't think I've learned anything new about his character in the third one... That's what bothered me a little.

As for Halle... I like her. I LOVE Storm and I still think they didn't give the character justice in The Last Stand, not mention previous two.
You say that Halle didn't want to return. It's true. That she didn't want to change her schedule to fit X3. That might be true. But I can totally understand where that was coming from! She would only waste time sitting on the set for 6 months, and doing atual work for a month. That was the case with X2, wasn't it? Actors had to be on the set for half a year, actually working for coulple of weeks. At least that was the case with Halle if I remeber correctly.
There was some talking about Storm being buffed-up in the third, character-wise I mean. And where is it? We've seen the pictures of Ororo comforting Kitty - we haven't seen it in the movie. We've heard about reference to her african past from script writers and the actress - again, we haven't seen it in the movie. We've heard about her taking a lead of the X-Men... now, that's not true.
When Halle decided to signed up she was signing up for fleshed-out character It's not her fault what was done in the editing.
I would like to see her referring to Jean as someone more that just 'her'... they were friends, weren't they? But then again, scene indicating it was cut out of X2 as well...

You know what I think a better ending of The Last Stand would be? If after Jean goes berserk for the last time Logan said he couldn't hurt her. Storm would attack Jean (opportunity for showdown between Storm and Phoenix), emotions on her face. And I don't even want this to be an even match. Storm could unleash elements on Jean: lightning, blizzard, extreme cold etc, Jean would deflect them effortlessly and then send demolecularizing wave on Storm. That's when Wolverine comes in, jumps to Storm protecting her and saying that he'll do it. That he will take care of Jean.
You know what that scene would establish? That attacking Jean is as hard for Storm as attacking a sister. That Storm is leader-enough not to rely on Logan on everything, and again, leader enough to put aside her own feelings for the greater cause (that's what she used to do in the comic-books). That Storm isn't as powerfull as Phoenix. And that Logan has his doubts and is more human, not a knight in shiny armour. Seeing Storm helplessly attacking someone she loved as a sister would allow Logan to attack someone he loved as a lover. He would save the day in the end, but wouldn't it be more dramatic this way? More... right?

 

[gambitfire]

The tables are slowly turning, all the crap that has been said about those who loved the movie is now turning into crap talking about those who hate it. We are going through phases here. At one point you feel outcasted because you love it but now let's face it your bein outcasted if you hated it. Let's all just agree too this agree. This thread was a bad move on LS's part. Im not surprised. I have yet to hear a valid point other than this non sense of jealousy and crap. Say something true and mature and ill respond. But stop basing our true feelings on your what your ego tells you.

 

[X-Maniac]

Jan, you're not the only one who's annoyed with the whole "Fox loyalists" and "Wolverine fanboys" mentality that runs rampant with the people who didn't enjoy the movie, like LastSunrise and stuff.

Yes, I share that. I have no attachment either to Fox or to Wolverine; those aren't the reasons I enjoy the movie. In fact, I agree that Fox mismanage things and that Wolverine has been overprominent... but I still enjoy the movie.

 

[Hotaru]

Don't get me wrong - I like the third movie. It was the best part of the trilogy. It wasn't flawless though, that's all.

 

[danoyse]

Nell many of your recent posts are great and intelligent. especially in the "did x3 ruin the franchise thread" just like to say.

I think many folks cant accept the fact that x3 did indeed have qualities of a winner and some have noticed. Its in there imo. Fox loyalty has nothing to do with it as i think fox does mismanage many of their properties.

Agreed. Nell's been a voice of reason amidst a sea of chaos in these threads.

I don't think anyone can say Fox didn't screw up in continuing this franchise, that's apparent. X3 had it's share of problems, but it got a lot right too. Overall, I was happy with it. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Jan Irisi]

*Bows*

I have no idea what she's talking about...

*bows*

...What?

Stop that!!!!!

*holds out left foot to be kissed*

 

[gambitfire]

^Her ego's going to pop!

RUN!!!


lol j/k

 

[X-Maniac]

I read only half of this thread and feel like ready to state my opinion.

I understand that Hugh was the franchise's engine and that his Wolverine was dominating in all three movies. Logan's even dominating in comic-books (not only X-Men, but Avengers as well), so that's not out-of-character for him . I really can't imagine a better movie-Wolvie than him, even though I find his performance in the third movie repeatable. I don't think I've learned anything new about his character in the third one... That's what bothered me a little.

As for Halle... I like her. I LOVE Storm and I still think they didn't give the character justice in The Last Stand, not mention previous two.
You say that Halle didn't want to return. It's true. That she didn't want to change her schedule to fit X3. That might be true. But I can totally understand where that was coming from! She would only waste time sitting on the set for 6 months, and doing atual work for a month. That was the case with X2, wasn't it? Actors had to be on the set for half a year, actually working for coulple of weeks. At least that was the case with Halle if I remeber correctly.
There was some talking about Storm being buffed-up in the third, character-wise I mean. And where is it? We've seen the pictures of Ororo comforting Kitty - we haven't seen it in the movie. We've heard about reference to her african past from script writers and the actress - again, we haven't seen it in the movie. We've heard about her taking a lead of the X-Men... now, that's not true.
When Halle decided to signed up she was signing up for fleshed-out character It's not her fault what was done in the editing.
I would like to see her referring to Jean as someone more that just 'her'... they were friends, weren't they? But then again, scene indicating it was cut out of X2 as well...

You know what I think a better ending of The Last Stand would be? If after Jean goes berserk for the last time Logan said he couldn't hurt her. Storm would attack Jean (opportunity for showdown between Storm and Phoenix), emotions on her face. And I don't even want this to be an even match. Storm could unleash elements on Jean: lightning, blizzard, extreme cold etc, Jean would deflect them effortlessly and then send demolecularizing wave on Storm. That's when Wolverine comes in, jumps to Storm protecting her and saying that he'll do it. That he will take care of Jean.
You know what that scene would establish? That attacking Jean is as hard for Storm as attacking a sister. That Storm is leader-enough not to rely on Logan on everything, and again, leader enough to put aside her own feelings for the greater cause (that's what she used to do in the comic-books). That Storm isn't as powerfull as Phoenix. And that Logan has his doubts and is more human, not a knight in shiny armour. Seeing Storm helplessly attacking someone she loved as a sister would allow Logan to attack someone he loved as a lover. He would save the day in the end, but wouldn't it be more dramatic this way? More... right?

I agree with this in many ways. I also wanted the origin scene discussion (it's in the novel at least), a bit more compassion (the scene with Kitty would have helped, and a bit more understanding of Rogue's predicament) and I wanted a power showdown between Storm and Phoenix too... So, yes...

 

[gambitfire]

You want more Rogue? but did you not say it was done so well in the other thread? Someone needs to make up their mind.

 

[The Batman]

The tables are slowly turning, all the crap that has been said about those who loved the movie is now turning into crap talking about those who hate it. We are going through phases here. At one point you feel outcasted because you love it but now let's face it your bein outcasted if you hated it. Let's all just agree too this agree. This thread was a bad move on LS's part. Im not surprised. I have yet to hear a valid point other than this non sense of jealousy and crap. Say something true and mature and ill respond. But stop basing our true feelings on your what your ego tells you.

Many of the supporters have always been arrogant snobs. Then, they act like victims. They wonder why people still treat them with hostility when the answer is right in front of them. I noticed no one adressed your post...mainly because you're right.

 

[ntcrawler]

You know what I think a better ending of The Last Stand would be? If after Jean goes berserk for the last time Logan said he couldn't hurt her. Storm would attack Jean (opportunity for showdown between Storm and Phoenix), emotions on her face. And I don't even want this to be an even match. Storm could unleash elements on Jean: lightning, blizzard, extreme cold etc, Jean would deflect them effortlessly and then send demolecularizing wave on Storm. That's when Wolverine comes in, jumps to Storm protecting her and saying that he'll do it. That he will take care of Jean.
You know what that scene would establish? That attacking Jean is as hard for Storm as attacking a sister. That Storm is leader-enough not to rely on Logan on everything

You know that is very interesting, because that is exactly one of the scenes that I am working on. A duel between two goddesses. Once Jean goes berzerk, Storm releases a little rage of her own. Except that I'm using a different idea for breaking up and stopping the fight. Something a bit more unexpected.

It's good to see there are others who think along similar lines.

Pozdrowienia dla rodakow i kibicow X-menow!!

 

[X-Maniac]

You want more Rogue? but did you not say it was done so well in the other thread? Someone needs to make up their mind.

You misunderstand (again). I thought, on reflection, that Storm's dialogue with Rogue could have been a little softer and more compassionate. Maybe some more dialogue added on, after the 'There's nothing wrong with you, there's nothing wrong with any of us.' Something like: "I know it's been hard for you...but we don't know if this so-called cure even works yet. I wouldn't want you to get your hopes up."

 

[ntcrawler]

Something like: "I know it's been hard for you...but we don't know if this so-called cure even works yet. I wouldn't want you to get your hopes up."

that's actually a pretty good line. That's also a nitpick I noticed. So Worthington Labs is sort-of a pharmaceutical company that comes up with a new "cure". From the sound of things, they never even had a chance to actually test it on any live mutant patients, almost as if Warren III was supposed to be the first test case. And they just decide to release it on a massive scale to the public without even being sure whether it works or not, or not worried about side effects or whether it's permanent? From the sound of things, they didn't really test it otherwise they might have reached the same conclusions as Magneto had when playing chess. Seems that part of the story was handled pretty sloppily. Storm saying a line like that to Rogue would help reinforce the notion and set up some nice foreshadowing.

 

[god/devil]

Halle/storm did get a much bigger role in x-3 but thanks to editing none of us saw it.

Take the scene where her and wolverine found jean at the lake. In the first version I saw it showed storms emotions when she found jean(her facial expression and panicy scream for logan). In the cinema I just saw logans face and a pathetic scream in the background. Her scene with rogue and the cure was cut in half. Her scene talking to kitty at the graveyard wasn't used. Tidel Wave anyone. I'm sure that on script her part looked pretty good in her eyes but the editing really screwed her over.

So therefore we are still left with an undeveloped cgi machine, that some people hate because she supposedly ruined x-3 get over it

 

[Hotaru]

You know that is very interesting, because that is exactly one of the scenes that I am working on. A duel between two goddesses. Once Jean goes berzerk, Storm releases a little rage of her own. Except that I'm using a different idea for breaking up and stopping the fight. Something a bit more unexpected.

It's good to see there are others who think along similar lines.

Pozdrowienia dla rodakow i kibicow X-menow!!

Will you let us see it once you're done? Pleeease?

Fajnie zobaczyc kogos z Polski na tym forum.

 

[X-Maniac]

that's actually a pretty good line. That's also a nitpick I noticed. So Worthington Labs is sort-of a pharmaceutical company that comes up with a new "cure". From the sound of things, they never even had a chance to actually test it on any live mutant patients, almost as if Warren III was supposed to be the first test case. And they just decide to release it on a massive scale to the public without even being sure whether it works or not, or not worried about side effects or whether it's permanent? From the sound of things, they didn't really test it otherwise they might have reached the same conclusions as Magneto had when playing chess. Seems that part of the story was handled pretty sloppily. Storm saying a line like that to Rogue would help reinforce the notion and set up some nice foreshadowing.

Okay, well I'm glad you liked that line.

As for the cure, well I noticed Dr Rao saying 'the transformation can be a little jarring' to Angel, and wondered how she knew that. Was she basing it on seeing Beast's stunned reaction at Alcatraz? Or on lab tests on animals? Since Angel was supposedly the first cure subject, I guess either of those must be the case. They moved forward swiftly with the idea of the cure when Magneto's intentions became clear, but they must have done some tests, as any drugs company does... I think the film could not have gone into this in huge detail, but a line or two here or there might have helped...

 

[thegameq]

I think some fans are angry because there expectations were not met. There's a feeling of disempowerment because the fillmmakers have not listened and given them what they asked for. The easiest reaction seems to be to compain and blame.

Some of us have been following the devlopment of X3 for a long time and have tried to understand the business issues. We've adjuste d our expectations along the way. So for me, it was always a surprise when other people clung to the idea that Hugh and Halle would not be the leads in X3.

Since X2, at every stage, it has been made clear that without Hugh there would be no X3. "We'd never make an X-Man movie without Wolverine." He was the first cast member to be re-signed and there was even considerations of making the Wolverine spinoff first. Fox have a big investment in Hugh. They took an unknown and turned him into an international star through the X-Men franchise. They're doing their best to make him the biggest star in the world. So of course they were going to keep him up front and central.

I don't really understand the situation with Halle. I think it was clear that they'd go ahead with X3 even if she didn't sign but that they were pretty keen to get her. She could add value in terms of marketing, kudos (Oscar) and race. Her demands sounded reasonable for an actress of her standing, so once she'd signed, everyone knew what to expect.

DING! DING! DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!! GIVE THIS MAN A CUBIE DOLL!

Halle and Hugh, Storm and Logan were placed front and center because they were the stars and Fox's marketing department was going to get their moneys worth. That said, Fox basically said to hell with the comics--something they pretty much said from X1. Much like the rest of XINO3 having H&H font and center was a business decision first and a creative decision a distant never.

Oh well..............Till the Uncanny X-men debut in 2020.........

 

[silentforce3]

Well another thread about the supposed thieving ways of Halle and Hugh. They steal the screen time. So I'm just wondering why Halle is called a diva and she was the one fans were hating when X1 and 2 were out. "Halle sucks as Storm and she was reduced to a background character". Yet she asks for more to say in a film that takes months to shoot. Instead of standing around doing nothing in a film she wanted to make the most of her time. Contrary to popular belief X men is not the only movie these actors are offered. I'm not put off by her complaints. Her wanting to start another project makes sense. If they are not going to use her in the film, the fans are going to complain and she'll be wasting time why shouldn't she leave?

 

[ntcrawler]

DING! DING! DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!! GIVE THIS MAN A CUBIE DOLL!

Halle and Hugh, Storm and Logan were placed front and center because they were the stars and Fox's marketing department was going to get their moneys worth. That said, Fox basically said to hell with the comics--something they pretty much said from X1. Much like the rest of XINO3 having H&H font and center was a business decision first and a creative decision a distant never.

Actually, not quite. If you watch the cast interviews during the X1 period, they openly admit that part of their work involved doing "research" by spending lots of quality time reading a thick, healthy stack of comic books. But by the time you get to X3, during an interview at Cannes Famke and James admitted that they were told not to rely on the comic books but they were going to be going in a new direction, a new interpretation. Obviously, something had changed in attitudes during the period from X1 to X3. So it was relatively important during X1 to stay consistent and reasonably close to the comics, but was no longer important during X3.

 

[X-Maniac]

^^^ Not sure about that ntcrawler. I had/have an issue of SFX magazine here somewhere from just before X1 was released in which Singer says he told them not to look at the comics at all.