TLS isnt really in continuity with X2

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Watching them both over the weekend i felt that X2 and X3 felt like totally different movies that were not really connected. Now its pretty well known on here that i hated X3, but i dont really want to discuss this in this thread, i want to discuss the continuity between the movies. Here are some of my issues:

I'll get the obvious one's out of the way first, the firebird, Rogue seeming a lot more confident in 2, and then taking the cure in 3 not really fitting and Cyclops being killed of in 3 despite 2 strongly pointing out that Jean loved him the most and saw her future with him. But here are some others as well.

If Magneto knew Jean when she was little why was this not alluded to in the first two movies. In 1 and 2, they act like people who have only met through being enemy's in various battle's, there is not even a hint that they knew each other years ago as friends or teacher and student.

Wolverine in still a loner who goes off and does his own thing at his will in X1 and X2 with no hint of him being even able to lead a team.

At the end of X2, Xavier is looking out of the window when Jubilee asks "Professor, is everything alright?" to which he smiles and replies "Yes i think it will be." To me, this indicated that he knew Jean was alive and would be coming back. Now in X3, he seems a little surprised at her return and he is also afraid of what she could do. Now if he knew the Pheonix would resurface and be pissed, why would he smile and tell the students he thinks everything will be alright at the end of 2? IMO this indicates that Bryan Singer had intended Jean to return as still a good guy (or girl even) and then she would develop into the Dark Pheonix over time. But the way they went in X3 now makes this scene in X2 not make sense. Also in this scene in X2 Xavier says Jean was always hesitant about her powers as a girl. Again the first scene in X3 just simply dismisses this as young Jean didnt seem hesitant at all about using her powers to me.

Also at the end of X2 Cyclops is obviously distraught at what happened, but he shows no signs of being "a changed man" as he is in X3. At the end of X2 he is still in his smart clothes and looking like a professional and someone who will lead the school someday.

EDIT: Just remembered another one, in X1 Xavier says to Wolverine that Cerebro amplifies his power. So why doesnt he use it on Jean to restore the psychic barriers.

These are the type of things that ruined X3 for me and i at first thought it would damage X1 and X2 as well, but thankfully after watching them again recently i'm glad to say that isnt true.

But has anyone else noticed these continuity issues?

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Wow. You brought up some points I never even really noticed.

 

[britrogue]

I totally agree with you, and I think that this was partially the reason that I was so annoyed with TLS.

 

[phoenix_force]

Watching them both over the weekend i felt that X2 and X3 felt like totally different movies that were not really connected. Now its pretty well known on here that i hated X3, but i dont really want to discuss this in this thread, i want to discuss the continuity between the movies. Here are some of my issues:

I'll get the obvious one's out of the way first, the firebird, Rogue seeming a lot more confident in 2, and then taking the cure in 3 not really fitting and Cyclops being killed of in 3 despite 2 strongly pointing out that Jean loved him the most and saw her future with him. But here are some others as well.

If Magneto knew Jean when she was little why was this not alluded to in the first two movies. In 1 and 2, they act like people who have only met through being enemy's in various battle's, there is not even a hint that they knew each other years ago as friends or teacher and student.

Wolverine in still a loner who goes off and does his own thing at his will in X1 and X2 with no hint of him being even able to lead a team.

At the end of X2, Xavier is looking out of the window when Jubilee asks "Professor, is everything alright?" to which he smiles and replies "Yes i think it will be." To me, this indicated that he knew Jean was alive and would be coming back. Now in X3, he seems a little surprised at her return and he is also afraid of what she could do. Now if he knew the Pheonix would resurface and be pissed, why would he smile and tell the students he thinks everything will be alright at the end of 2? IMO this indicates that Bryan Singer had intended Jean to return as still a good guy (or girl even) and then she would develop into the Dark Pheonix over time. But the way they went in X3 now makes this scene in X2 not make sense. Also in this scene in X2 Xavier says Jean was always hesitant about her powers as a girl. Again the first scene in X3 just simply dismisses this as young Jean didnt seem hesitant at all about using her powers to me.

Also at the end of X2 Cyclops is obviously distraught at what happened, but he shows no signs of being "a changed man" as he is in X3. At the end of X2 he is still in his smart clothes and looking like a professional and someone who will lead the school someday.

These are the type of things that ruined X3 for me and i at first thought it would damage X1 and X2 as well, but thankfully after watching them again recently i'm glad to say that isnt true.

But has anyone else noticed these continuity issues?

as far as Jean being good / bad
Famke Janssen is responsible for that
the writers wanted to make Jean go from Jean to Phoenix to Dark Phoenix
but she told them thats not the way she understood the character i'll try to find what she said exactly it was in an interview
EDIT in UGO: how much input did you have in Jean's direction?

FAMKE: A lot. Initially when I read the script, I wasn't 100% sure where they were trying to go with her, and then the writers and I got together and we fleshed her out more. I think everybody had this understanding of Jean Grey, then her turning into Phoenix, then into Dark Phoenix as if it were some kind of natural progression, and that's not the way I thought. I always wanted to make sure you weren't quite sure which one was going to be in the room with you, and that's sort of how we worked on it.
http://xmen.ugo.com/features/famke_janssen/default.asp

 

[November Rain]

Jamon, most of the factors you mentioned could have grown with time...

you haven't even mentioned the ost obvious one which is beast going from being furry to non-furry in a matter of months and also suggesting he had already served a term with the x-men 'BEFOREHAND' with his old uniform, in a time when wolverine wasn't around which couldn't be during any of the time beforehand.

except from that, the rest of your observations were merely new plot devices obtained from new direction in order to change the story being told.

the story went from being mutants being accepted to pretty much full blown mutant acceptance in the states with the cure now being the focal point.

 

[X-Maniac]

Jamon, most of the factors you mentioned could have grown with time...

you haven't even mentioned the ost obvious one which is beast going from being furry to non-furry in a matter of months and also suggesting he had already served a term with the x-men 'BEFOREHAND' with his old uniform, in a time when wolverine wasn't around which couldn't be during any of the time beforehand.

The intention in X2 was to have Beast grow blue fur when Cerebro targets mutants and has their powers going mad (like Mystique’s morphing was). That was cut for budgetary or time reasons.

It is quite feasible for Beast to have been an early X-Men member. In X1, Xavier says Storm, Jean and Cyclops were ‘SOME of my first students’. In X2 we find out that Jason Stryker was a student at some point in the past. So there was plenty of opportunity for many other earlier students. There is nothing wrong with the idea of Beast (furry or non-furry) being an early X-Men member.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

There are continuity mistakes even within TLS (day to night transition anyone?). But hasn't this been discussed to death? And isn't this thread bound to become another "If you don't like the movie - post here" thread in less than 3 pages?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Jamon, most of the factors you mentioned could have grown with time...

you haven't even mentioned the ost obvious one which is beast going from being furry to non-furry in a matter of months and also suggesting he had already served a term with the x-men 'BEFOREHAND' with his old uniform, in a time when wolverine wasn't around which couldn't be during any of the time beforehand.

except from that, the rest of your observations were merely new plot devices obtained from new direction in order to change the story being told.

the story went from being mutants being accepted to pretty much full blown mutant acceptance in the states with the cure now being the focal point.

Why would Xavier be so happy that she was alive at the end of X2 and tell the students that everything will be ok when he knew from when Jean was a little girl she had difficulty controlling her powers. And he was in her mind at the end of X2 so he must have known the psychic barriers were gone.

He knew how much damage she could do so why would he say everything will be ok.

And about beast, the writers said they were ignoring the cameo in X2

 

[La_She-Beast]

Meh. X3 doesn't pay attention to ANY detail. Which is a shame, cuz they coulda enrich the movie.

And I believe flavio's right, this thread will become "I hate the movie" in no time.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Meh. X3 doesn't pay attention to ANY detail. Which is a shame, cuz they coulda enrich the movie.

Agreed, just an extra 20 mins run-time could have done this.

And I believe flavio's right, this thread will become "I hate the movie" in no time.

I hope not, i would rather we just discussed the issues i raised.

 

[La_She-Beast]

Ok, I trust YOU JAMON

 

[November Rain]

The intention in X2 was to have Beast grow blue fur when Cerebro targets mutants and has their powers going mad (like Mystique’s morphing was). That was cut for budgetary or time reasons.

It is quite feasible for Beast to have been an early X-Men member. In X1, Xavier says Storm, Jean and Cyclops were ‘SOME of my first students’. In X2 we find out that Jason Stryker was a student at some point in the past. So there was plenty of opportunity for many other earlier students. There is nothing wrong with the idea of Beast (furry or non-furry) being an early X-Men member.

well if that was the case, then why didn't wolverine wear beast's old costume instead of a spare one from cyclops?

 

[November Rain]

Why would Xavier be so happy that she was alive at the end of X2 and tell the students that everything will be ok when he knew from when Jean was a little girl she had difficulty controlling her powers. And he was in her mind at the end of X2 so he must have known the psychic barriers were gone.

He knew how much damage she could do so why would he say everything will be ok.

And about beast, the writers said they were ignoring the cameo in X2

the extent of the pheonix had not yet been fully manifestated...

the pheonix's mind is stronger than xavier's who if i remember correctly wasn't in jean's mind but only was used by jeans as a means of communicating with the rest of the xmen on the plane.

if you meant at the very end, well for continuity, one can simply assume that he wasn't referring to jean but was merely thinking about the impact he and his team have had on the president and the future in 3 which was the greater acceptance of mutant kind with mutants openly being allowed to roam without prejudices (or far less).

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

the extent of the pheonix had not yet been fully manifestated...

the pheonix's mind is stronger than xavier's who if i remember correctly wasn't in jean's mind but only was used by jeans as a means of communicating with the rest of the xmen on the plane.

if you meant at the very end, well for continuity, one can simply assume that he wasn't referring to jean but was merely thinking about the impact he and his team have had on the president and the future in 3 which was the greater acceptance of mutant kind with mutants openly being allowed to roam without prejudices (or far less).

But even that didnt really happen to a great extent in X3. But even so, just the way Xavier was about to get on with the lesson and then stopped and looked out the window after they were just talking about Jean and then afterwards it goes into Jeans voiceover and the firebird under the lake told me he knew she was alive and would be coming back, but in a good guy capacity. In X3 he seems somewhat afraid of her return so it doesnt make sense IMO.

 

[November Rain]

maybe he thought everthing would be fine because ultimately when he looked out of the window he thought she was dead and that his nightmares of dealing with the pheonix would never truelly arise.

 

[X-Maniac]

well if that was the case, then why didn't wolverine wear beast's old costume instead of a spare one from cyclops?

Beast and Wolverine are hardly the same size!!!! (LOL). And Beast’s uniform was obviously designed to cope with his extra large simian body and feet - it wouldn’t be protective (or suitable) for anyone else! Maybe Beast’s uniform in X3 was the original design (colours) of the X-suits, but his would be modified for his build.

 

[Obsidian]

if you meant at the very end, well for continuity, one can simply assume that he wasn't referring to jean but was merely thinking about the impact he and his team have had on the president and the future in 3 which was the greater acceptance of mutant kind with mutants openly being allowed to roam without prejudices (or far less).

but it follows the conversation that the three men were having about Jean and is followed by the bit in Alkali Lake with the Phoenix silhouette in the water. it's a bit of a stretch to assume that Xavier was just thinking about the impact he and his team had on the president and the future, and not about Jean.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

maybe he thought everthing would be fine because ultimately when he looked out of the window he thought she was dead and that his nightmares of dealing with the pheonix would never truelly arise.

Sorry NR cant see it.

 

[Angamb]

Surprised with some of the observations, AVEITWITHJAMON. Specially with the Magneto and Jean one. And with the Xavier end of X2. Yes, they are really mistakes of continuity, no doubt.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Ok, I trust YOU JAMON

Dont put that pressure on me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

but it follows the conversation that the three men were having about Jean and is followed by the bit in Alkali Lake with the Phoenix silhouette in the water. it's a bit of a stretch to assume that Xavier was just thinking about the impact he and his team had on the president and the future, and not about Jean.

Exactly, NR Xavier was definately thinking of Jean here IMO.

 

[November Rain]

Beast and Wolverine are hardly the same size!!!! (LOL). And Beast’s uniform was obviously designed to cope with his extra large simian body and feet - it wouldn’t be protective (or suitable) for anyone else! Maybe Beast’s uniform in X3 was the original design (colours) of the X-suits, but his would be modified for his build.

human beast and human wolverine are pretty much similar in build to human cyclops, see human footage in x2

IF beast was indeed in the xmen previously, he would have been in his human form so he suit would have been tailored for a normal human build.

beast implied he was wearing an old kit when he said something about it barely fitting into it in x3, which would correlate to the fact he was human when he wore it.

 

[November Rain]

but it follows the conversation that the three men were having about Jean and is followed by the bit in Alkali Lake with the Phoenix silhouette in the water. it's a bit of a stretch to assume that Xavier was just thinking about the impact he and his team had on the president and the future, and not about Jean.

see next reasoning

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Surprised with some of the observations, AVEITWITHJAMON. Specially with the Magneto and Jean one. And with the Xavier end of X2. Yes, they are really mistakes of continuity, no doubt.

Thanks, i noticed them a while ago but kept forgetting to post until i watched them this weekend.

 

[La_She-Beast]

human beast and human wolverine are pretty much similar in build to human cyclops, see human footage in x2

IF beast was indeed in the xmen previously, he would have been in his human form so he suit would have been tailored for a normal human build.

beast implied he was wearing an old kit when he said something about it barely fitting into it in x3, which would correlate to the fact he was human when he wore it.

Well, I thought that phrase meant he was younger rather than human...