The All New, All Star Batman & Robin Thread!

[MasterOgami]

I mean really... does anybody think this book contains a compelling story of any kind?

Yeah, its just building it at a -very- slow pace, and that isn't a remark about the delays.

 

[Joker]

Who held that honor before? All Star B&R has been the slowest running comic series in DC history. It came out two years ago and we're dying for issue 11.

The Ultimates was on a pace that was roughly the same as this for a while. It had the excuse of Brian Hitch's wife having medical issues, and Marvel essentially telling him to do what he needed to do, and worry about the issues later (for the first series anyway, the 2nd series delays had no excuse as far as I know).

Lee here, has shown he can maintain a monthly schedule if he wants, with Hush. This is either him taking on too much of a work load (covers for other series, pin ups, etc.), or him just being a lazy a**hole.

 

[CConn]

Truthfully, I'd say The Ultimates was slightly different than ASB&R, because when an issue did come out, it was pretty packed full with coolness.

ASB&R is so slow moving (which isn't really a bad thing, plenty of good comics are), waiting 6 months just to see Black Canary lace up her boots is kind of a letdown.

 

[margon]

ditch Lee and put Neal Adams on. Better book, on time, sounds alright to me

 

[CrimsonMist]

ditch Lee and put Neal Adams on. Better book, on time, sounds alright to me

actually, it was reported some time ago that Neal Adams and Frank Miller were going to work on a project of Adams' called "Batman: Odyssey". Adams was going to plot and draw it, with Miller writing it. That's all that's been reported since it was originally announced, though. No story, no nothing.

 

[CConn]

Neal Adams' art just isn't the same in recent years.

 

[margon]

Neal Adams' art just isn't the same in recent years.

no it hasn't. but it would still be fun to see him doing batman again, especially with Miller. and it would make a huge difference to ASBR if it was on time.

actually, it was reported some time ago that Neal Adams and Frank Miller were going to work on a project of Adams' called "Batman: Odyssey". Adams was going to plot and draw it, with Miller writing it. That's all that's been reported since it was originally announced, though. No story, no nothing.

yeah this is what I was thinking of. alot of people figured that 'Odyssey' might be another All-Star type project, maybe even the next arc

 

[Majic Walrus]

The Ultimates was on a pace that was roughly the same as this for a while. It had the excuse of Brian Hitch's wife having medical issues, and Marvel essentially telling him to do what he needed to do, and worry about the issues later (for the first series anyway, the 2nd series delays had no excuse as far as I know).

Lee here, has shown he can maintain a monthly schedule if he wants, with Hush. This is either him taking on too much of a work load (covers for other series, pin ups, etc.), or him just being a lazy a**hole.

The Ultimates was horrible. But that was Marvel.

Does anyone even remember what happened in the last issue?

 

[CConn]

no it hasn't. but it would still be fun to see him doing batman again, especially with Miller. and it would make a huge difference to ASBR if it was on time.

Well, you could pick any of 55,000 artists and ASB&R would be on time, so that's besides the point.

But yes, Neal has started slipping in recent years. From his early work, I of course love the man enough to fluff him for a senior citizen stag film, but today...it's just mediocre.

Ultimates was a slice of heaven mixed in an old fashioned green coke bottle, btw. So you can just go pet a stray cat, Majic.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Well, you could pick any of 55,000 artists and ASB&R would be on time, so that's besides the point.

But yes, Neal has started slipping in recent years. From his early work, I of course love the man enough to fluff him for a senior citizen stag film, but today...it's just mediocre.

Ultimates was a slice of heaven mixed in an old fashioned green coke bottle, btw. So you can just go pet a stray cat, Majic.

lol.

I meant the wait between issues. Ultimates 1 & 2 are two of my favorite stories ever.

 

[lixdexia]

lol.

I meant the wait between issues. Ultimates 1 & 2 are two of my favorite stories ever.

yet 3 is tripe...loeb as not only ruined the title's awesome rep, but he's killed off at least one key team member in jan

 

[CrimsonMist]

while on topic of The Ultimates, is the Origins mini-series any good? I'm thinking about picking it up. I've read some of the TPBS of the other stuff and i'm not really fond of the way Captain America is written(and i don't like any of his costume designs), but i didn't read enough to really enforce that. How good is the series as a whole, as well?

 

[CConn]

lol.

I meant the wait between issues. Ultimates 1 & 2 are two of my favorite stories ever.

Oh. Then you are excused.

 

[kguillou]

Didnt this start in 2005 and we're now in 2009??? This is freakin ridiculous, i love Jim Lee but come on, what's it gona take for Didio to replace him already??

 

[ironman29758]

while on topic of The Ultimates, is the Origins mini-series any good? I'm thinking about picking it up. I've read some of the TPBS of the other stuff and i'm not really fond of the way Captain America is written(and i don't like any of his costume designs), but i didn't read enough to really enforce that. How good is the series as a whole, as well?

it's intrensting it has the origin of mutants, how hulk and spidey is connected, the origin of Nick Fury, Wepon X why Magneto and Xaiver were freinds, and the watchers. It doesn't stay connected with continuity but it's intresting

 

[Yurka]

Didnt this start in 2005 and we're now in 2009??? This is freakin ridiculous, i love Jim Lee but come on, what's it gona take for Didio to replace him already??

Everything in the world, there's no way Jim's going to be thrown off this project.

 

[theMan-Bat]

My Chemical Romance's bass player Mikey Way is really good friends with Jim Lee and defends Frank Miller's All-Star Batman & Robin:

“It’s weird. When I was growing up Miller was doing ‘Daredevil’ and he was the golden boy, the top of the line. And now it just seems like people are trying to bring him down. I heard all this criticism and I am like ‘Really?’ It’s a different take on it, he’s a jerk and I thought it was funny. The premise of ‘All Star’ is they take a hero and strip the continuity from it. Who’s to say that Batman — this man with rigid morals — doesn’t also take pleasure from punching people and driving the Batmobile through a window? It’s an interesting take on it, something people aren’t used to. And people kind of like their Batman like they like it. It’s like pizza. They’re very protective of it.”

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/10/2...-mikey-way-talks-batman-defends-frank-miller/

 

[theMan-Bat]

there's going to be more than 12 issues, actually.

That's right. Frank Miller said, "I've written up through issue No. 13. There will be just four more after that. Or maybe five. My plan is in the end we find out where that robot tyrannosaurs in the Batcave comes from. We finally find out. That's the plan."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2008/09/batman-and-robi.html

 

[theMan-Bat]

I love Jim Lee's artwork, but fans don't need these kind of delays...

The reason for the delays is Jim Lee has been creating and designing the massively multiplayer DC Universe Online game for DC and Sony. Jim Lee is the executive creative director on the game.

Jim Lee said back in '06, "My position at DC has afforded me the amazing opportunity to dive into projects I am most passionate about. The DC Universe Online game is no exception and joins my current commitments to All-Star Batman & Robin with Frank Miller and the upcoming WildCats series with Grant Morrison as dream projects. The truth is that I love gaming as much as I love drawing and telling stories and look forward to bringing the DC Universe to life for players and comic book fans all around the world.

For me, the single greatest challenge will be doing both the game and everything else I am working on. When you look at the list of projects...from All-Star Batman & Robin with Frank Miller and the upcoming relaunch of WildCats with Grant Morrison to Editorial Director of WildStorm to this project...well, it's a lot on my plate but I wouldn't have it any other way. I love what I do and the fact it rarely feels like work is what keeps me going. I don't look forward to weekends or dread Mondays because I work everyday because again, I love what I do. There's no way I would drop getting a chance to work with the likes of Frank Miller or Grant Morrison so it all comes down to getting organized and getting efficient.

It was really slowing me down on drawing comics so I got behind the 8-Ball on my All-Star Batman & Robin schedule.

Getting to work on the game initially meant flying to Austin a lot and there was a steep learning curve. I kibbitzed on the game design with Chris Cao and Shawn Lord from SOE-Austin and we have a weekly rundown on the progress on all facets of the game from art to game engine to physics to scheduling with producers John Blakely, Todd Fiala and Andrew Boyd, technical director Lorin Jameson, lead engineer Edgar Glowacki and uber art director Whitney Ayres. On our end, Eddy and WildStorm director Hank Kanalz makes sure everything is on track in and in place as it should be. Then there are milestone reviews involving DC brass like John Nee and Richard Bruning and Warner Brothers Interactive execs Jonathan Eubanks and Jason Hall not to mention the SOE honchos. You can see how involved a project like this can be...it's just a massive undertaking no pun intended. A lot of time was burnt initially in figuring out how to best maximize everyone's time and in creating the pipeline of information that was needed on a project of this scale.

Games in general are a passion of mine--not just to play but also from gameplay issues. I remember the first Pong game which my dad brought home! It entranced us for days [laughter]. As a kid, I used to go a lot to the library and check out books on games from around the world and actually creating boards and pieces to play games which were not available in the US. I even went ahead and created my own board games with my own set of rules and game pieces out of balsa wood and clay. I was into Dungeons and Dragons and desktop miniatures. I also played a lot of SSI and Avalon Hill games which had very detailed, voluminous sets of rules but you really got to see how rulesets were used to define and replicate real life movements, actions and combat. Later in college, as a psychology major, I remember reading studies on zero sum strategies and gaming.

Anything you see in the game will be drawn by us at WildStorm. Obviously the characters, both non-player and player designs, the environments, the trees and pedestrians...all the way down to the loaves of bread. It's a monstrous task, both artistically and logistically in that so many assets have to be designed and created. As far as adapting superheroes into other mediums, well, some changes are to be expected to make the characters 'work' in the new spaces. That said, the translation between comics and videogames is a pretty clean one in that not a lot of tweaking or fudging has to take place. However, one example of the challenges we face is...what version of the most famous landmarks and characters in the DCU do we use? There have been numerous versions of the Daily Planet from the ones seen in various movies, TV shows and comic books. Which do we use? Most people know the Teen Titans through the cartoon show. Do we use costume designs from that or from the comics? Our number one job is to keep the vision and spirit of the DC as true as possible in the game. The fact that my day job is as a comic book creator makes these types of issues much easier to resolve.

Imagine getting to create your own unique superhero, give it a name, choose a physique, a costume, a set of powers and then dive into the DC Universe where you get to meet and ally with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and the entire pantheon of heroes. Imagine getting to team up with friends and other players from around the world and take on the likes of the Joker, Lex Luthor and Deathstroke. Imagine getting to use your network of contacts to go on missions and adventures to incredibly diverse environments. Imagine gaining fame and notoriety, forming leagues of superheroes to battle one another or to take down Darkseid himself. It's not hard to see how awesome a game like this would be and it's really the chance to play around and do so many different things in the DCU that is the big draw to gamers and comic book fans alike. Metropolis and Gotham city for example are such diverse environments that really can't be replicated in any other online space. Our job is to make the game as immersive as possible so that you don't feel like you're playing a game...but in fact, that you are a superhero. It's taking on the biggest fantasy there is in the world of comics and making it happen. That's what this game is about and it will take years to create."

In '08 GameSpy asked at the San Diego Comic-Con "From a gamer's perspective, what's the most exciting aspect of the game for you?"

Jim Lee: "Release! (laughs) Release! We've been working on this game for a long time now."

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?threadid=60670

http://kotaku.com/5028451/jim-lee-dishes-on-dc-universe-online

http://ps3.gamespy.com/playstation-3/dc-comics-mmo/894324p1.html

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21718

The game finally appears to be finished and is due out later this year for PlayStation 3 and PC. So Jim Lee can catch up on drawing All-Star Batman & Robin. At the "Spotlight on Grant Morrison" panel at the '08 New York Comic Con, Morrison revealed that WildCats would continue when Jim Lee is ready. I'm not into video games so I don't have much interest in the DC Universe Online game or WildCats (never been a WildCats fan and Grant Morrison is really disappointing me).

 

[Frosty81]

I started out with very mixed feelings on this title. Loved the art, hated the writing. Now? I've come around to loving both. It's not the take on Batman I'd want to read all of the time and it is certainly not the Batman of Nolan's universe. That said, I think it's a hugely entertaining take on the character and believe it showcases how flexible the character can be if you make allowances.

 

[the_scream]

I know few would agree with me but All Star Batman and Robin is one of the best titles I've read in ages. Here is a story with so much energy and cheek. When was the last time we got to see Robin beat the snot out of Green Lantern? Or see the angry JLA meet in a sewer to discuss Batman's outrageous antics? Dick almost puking when the Batmobile launches into the air like a rocket? There is some great stuff here if you are willing to just go along for the ride.

Overall, Miller's writing is a bit childish. But it is intentionally so. Everything about it reads like some greasy, sick poetry. "The Goddamn Batman" repeated throughout the story is not only amusing but it is sometimes poignant. I love the dialogue, with Miller rubbishing some of the iconic Batman moments (e.g. the batmobile, T-Rex, his "ward") by making it light. This is one of the most interesting Batman stories I have ever read.

This series perfectly goes alongside with the Dark Knight Strikes Again which portrayed Batman as a brute who just happens to be the only hope for the world. I like the way Miller is willing to just break free of the constraints other writers work around. He doesn't give a crap about pleasing his readers by pandering to every single character. He shows Lantern as a tool. Superman as ignorant of his own ability (i.e. he doesn't know how to fly but Batman does). Wonder Woman as a murderous hothead. Alfred as a man who could hold his own in a fight. This is exactly what writers should do when doing an "All Star" series if you ask me.

 

[blksuperman2]

Any news on the next issue? Will it come out at all in 2009, LOL?

 

[squeekness]

I was wondering that myself. It hasn't been showing up on the Diamond lists.

 

[batpawn]

“It’s weird. When I was growing up Miller was doing ‘Daredevil’ and he was the golden boy, the top of the line. And now it just seems like people are trying to bring him down. I heard all this criticism and I am like ‘Really?’ It’s a different take on it, he’s a jerk and I thought it was funny. The premise of ‘All Star’ is they take a hero and strip the continuity from it. Who’s to say that Batman — this man with rigid morals — doesn’t also take pleasure from punching people and driving the Batmobile through a window? It’s an interesting take on it, something people aren’t used to. And people kind of like their Batman like they like it. It’s like pizza. They’re very protective of it.”

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/10/2...-mikey-way-talks-batman-defends-frank-miller/

the problem is that batman does this crazy things FOR YEARS now. even in morrison's run he takes a big pleasure out of beating people to a pulp. the difference is that batman has done this already in so many better written storylines. that's why all-star bats reads like a big shame. it takes forever to move on and what you get to read in the end is just not satisfying, at all.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

For what it's worth, here's what DiDio had to say in an interview that was posted on Newsarama on Friday (2/13):

19. What’s the current status of All Star Batman and Robin?
DD: On hiatus.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/020913-DiDio20.html
​

While the book seems go on hiatus between each issue, it's probably not a good sign that this is DC's official position now.