Transformers The All-spark who's ******ed idea was this...

[GhostPoet]

Eh...actually...A sounds too basic. I prefer B.

 

[Boiiinng]

Eh...actually...A sounds too basic. I prefer B.

You can't get any more basic than a mystery box that powers mechanical life.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

I thought each story worked well for whichever format(cartoon series or movie) the Transformers were in. For a series, plot A works well because there are many episodes that can be used to show the lengths the Transformers have to go to acquire the energy and then transfer it back to Cybertron. With a story like this, you are allowed to milk it throughout the entire season/seasons.

For a movie, you need something that is "tighter", has a quicker payoff and allows for more suspense. This is why plot B works best here. The tracking down of an immensely powerful source of energy creates more suspense, drama and tension in a shorter period of time. The only problem I had with the Allspark was the fact that it was destroyed and we may never see Cybertron in all its glory.

 

[Nathan]

The only problem I had with the Allspark was the fact that it was destroyed and we may never see Cybertron in all its glory.

If that means never going to have to see another Mountain Dew Transformers, I'm fine with it.

 

[wake]

I wish they just would've made the Allspark a source of infinite energy. I don't really dig the idea that casual household appliances could turn into Transformers and form weapons out of thin air.

That part bugged me....especially the cell phone with mini-rockets and ammo for its strangely acquired guns.

 

[Prognosticator]

If that means never going to have to see another Mountain Dew Transformers, I'm fine with it.

I didn't mind the Mt. Dew TF as much as the cell phone that immediately developed a mini gatlon gun on it's crotch, as well as the aforementioned rockets^

 

[Starscreamer]

going all the way to earth for energy resources...

it's very.....independance day...

Yet very in line with Season one and two of Generation One TRANSFORMERS

 

[FatA$$]

well when you a *****ebag that puts MAGIC or, MAGICALLY after everything when describing it of course its gonna sound extremely stupid.

 

[AhabTheArab]

its spelled their.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Obviously PLot A, yet they went with PLot B... WHO IN THERE RIGHT MIND WOULD THINK A MAGIC CUBE WAS A GOOD IDEA? SOMEONE TELL ME!! PLEASE!!!

Considering the whole "All spark/Matrix" origin involving magic was written way way back in 1985 and then fleshed out again in issues 74 and 75, Simon Furman and Bob Budinsky came up with the "magic cube idea" back in Generation 1.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I'll give you a hint, their last names rhyme with Orci and Kurtzman.

I'll give you another hint, they got the Allspark out of the original G1 comics written by guys who last names sounds like Furman and Budinsky (except they called it the Matrix, and yes it was easily just as magical).

 

[ShadowBoxing]

But that's the thing. They couldn't find it on any planet

Then how come they often looted other planets? In the comics they didn't leave Cybertron for fuel, they left it to save it from an asteroid shower, we've been through this.

 

[Boiiinng]

Then how come they often looted other planets? In the comics they didn't leave Cybertron for fuel, they left it to save it from an asteroid shower, we've been through this.

We were comparing the cartoons and the movie. Leave your elitist comic discussion to yourself please. Mainstream fans never cared about the comics anyway. Way to miss the whole point of the thread.

 

[CFlash]

Considering the whole "All spark/Matrix" origin involving magic was written way way back in 1985 and then fleshed out again in issues 74 and 75, Simon Furman and Bob Budinsky came up with the "magic cube idea" back in Generation 1.

In all fairness... the Creation Matrix was originally explained as a super-advanced computer program that bestowed sentience on newly built Transformers. I don't think it ever *created* the machines. The Primus mythological stuff and magicness was added way later for whatever reason.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

In all fairness... the Creation Matrix was originally explained as a super-advanced computer program that bestowed sentience on newly built Transformers. I don't think it ever *created* the machines. The Primus mythological stuff and magicness was added way later for whatever reason.

Well in the movie we don't know exactly where the Transformers themselves came from (which came first the Allspark or the Transformers so to speak), but the Matrix in the comics (as I have explained with examples) could bestowed sentinence upon earth bound Machines. Prowl even suggested that Optimus do just that in the early issues with Earth bound war machines.

 

[CFlash]

Then how come they often looted other planets?

Maybe because some planets had SOME things they needed or wanted? Earth just so happened to have pretty much everything they required-- naturally. We, humans, can can use rocket fuel to launch the Space Shuttle but you wouldn't want it in your car... you can use nuclear power to power submarine (or create mega-weapon) but you wouldn't want it in your cell-phone.

The point is that "Energon" (not energy) was their food and we don't know what went into it. We don't all eat bagels everyday for sustenance. Neither did they.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

We were comparing the cartoons and the movie. Leave your elitist comic discussion to yourself please. Mainstream fans never cared about the comics anyway. Way to miss the whole point of the thread.

Okay well in the cartoons they looted Planet Monicus (it should be noted that Planet Monicus indicated Megatron had several planets throughout the galaxy supplying him with energon, couple that with Cyclonus' line "Once the Decepticons held a quadrant in terror" and it seems to imply they were looting a whole galaxies worth of planets), The Planet in The God Gambit, Mars, the Sun, and several unnamed planets over the course of the third season.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Maybe because some planets had SOME things they needed or wanted? Earth just so happened to have pretty much everything they required-- naturally. We, humans, can can use rocket fuel to launch the Space Shuttle but you wouldn't want it in your car... you can use nuclear power to power submarine (or create mega-weapon) but you wouldn't want it in your cell-phone.

The point is that "Energon" (not energy) was their food and we don't know what went into it. We don't all eat bagels everyday for sustenance. Neither did they.

Energon was highly inconsistent, just inconsistent enough that they could fight over everything and anything, and frequently what they fought over didn't truly exist. Energon wasn't something our planet had and other planets didn't (not until Beast Wars retconned that pearl of knowledge into G1), as a matter a fact energon was used a currency through most of the gallaxy in Season 2 and 3 (as seen in The Gambler). Remember they crashed here, by accident, not by choice. In fact it's never clearly stated WHY the Autobots left in the first place, Megatron just thinks it's over Energon...it's never quiet clear (although WW said it was to escape war). And Megatron himself states Energon is NOT for food in the first episode; he says "we will acquire enough energon to come back to Cybertron and build the ultimate weapon so we can conquer the Universe". Energon could've been a magic cube, and honestly for the most part it was.

 

[CFlash]

And Megatron himself states Energon is NOT for food in the first episode; he says "we will acquire enough energon to come back to Cybertron and build the ultimate weapon so we can conquer the Universe"

Except they were often seen drinking it. Plus I never said Earth had Energon. I said Earth had the ingredients to create it. And your quote doesn't really say anything about them NOT using it for food. You know salt's #1 purpose up until 85 years ago was for preserving food to keep it from rotting. Big business.. and it was crucial business. That doesn't say anything about salt's actual nutritional value-- and the fact that we actually like to eat it. Likewise, petroleum can make everything from vaseline, motor oil, to gasoline. With enough of it, you can also make a super-weapon. Same with "Energon" apparently.

Energon was highly inconsistent, just inconsistent enough that they could fight over everything

That makes perfect sense... for the reasons I just stated. It's the perfect analogy for our times... them being machines and all. It's actually pretty mature if you ask me and sure beats a magic box.

 

[The Caped Knight]

I wish they just would've made the Allspark a source of infinite energy.

You mean like Energon ?

 

[Jimmy, GL]

You mean like Energon ?

Except the point behind energon was that it was no where near being limitless. It definitely had its limits as was apparent from day 1 of the G1 show.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Except they were often seen drinking it.

Once or twice. Once or twice they were also seen eating it which kinda conflicts with them drinking it. And even once or twice it went towards powering rockets, creating devices to destroy the Transformers and even many more times attempting to go into making super weapons.

Plus I never said Earth had Energon.

I know, trust me I know. Transformers did. Transformers much later when Beast Wars came out attempted to shore up all the inconsistencies and plot devices that riddled the old show by writing it things like that. Energon then became a naturally occuring Earth substance rather than "vague sh** that can come from anywhere".

I said Earth had the ingredients to create it.

Apparently so did other Transformers (as they once tried to make it out of Autobots), and planet Monicus, and Mars, and several moons during Victory, Headmasters and Masterforce. So did most of the galaxy during season 3, so did many other planets during season 2. Apparently there must have been some on Quintessa as well because the Quintessons clearly had access to it. Apparently it was currency throughout much of space, etc. etc. It was Ev-Er-Y-Where.

And your quote doesn't really say anything about them NOT using it for food. You know salt's #1 purpose up until 85 years ago was for preserving food to keep it from rotting. Big business.. and it was crucial business.

You're putting way way too much thought into a children's cartoon. Energon was inconsistent because they simply wanted it as a plot device over which Transformers could fight. Not because it was some well thought out molecular compound like salt with multiple uses. The only consistent use for energon was "something blah blah Megatron's power". If they wanted it to be one thing they would have made it one thing, but sadly they didn't.

That doesn't say anything about salt's actual nutritional value-- and the fact that we actually like to eat it. Likewise, petroleum can make everything from vaseline, motor oil, to gasoline. With enough of it, you can also make a super-weapon. Same with "Energon" apparently.

Stop and think about this long and hard before you again respond. This was a show for eight year olds. Not for thinking conscious adults. It had a lot of red tape and was forced to churn out episodes at a high rate. It was also peddling toys, action figures to be precise. Yet you're over analyzing it like it's Shakespeare. It was inconsistent as a substance because it was a plot device, plain and simple. Kids don't really care, and furthermore don't really notice when Megatron is using Energon to build ultimate devices one week and drinking it the next. If that kind of logic existed in a film, trust me, it would flop.

That makes perfect sense... for the reasons I just stated. It's the perfect analogy for our times

Written in 1984. So therefore not an analogy to our times. That's like saying Edgar Allen Poe wrote about George W Bush. IT was a children's toy commercial, not a sophisticated analogy. If they wanted that then they wouldn't have lifted G.I.Joe's plot and used it for a new toyline.

... them being machines and all. It's actually pretty mature if you ask me and sure beats a magic box.

Again you're writing "CFlashes Transformers" and then retroactively claiming somehow it's the old cartoon. It's not, get over it. This is the height of fanboyism.

 

[WarBlade]

Plot B: The transformers were created by a magic cube called the All-Spark, the all-spark can bring to life any machine doesn't matter what it is or how basic, the autobots and decepticons lived peacefully till Megatron try to steal the cube to make an army of evil robots, somehow the cube gets magically lost and magically ends up on earth, The decepticons go searching for it, Megatron crashlands on earth and remains frozen for many year somehow he's magically awakened, and alerts other decepticons the magic allspark is on earth thus triggering the autobots trying to stop megatron from getting the allspark"

I take it you refer to the cube of unknown origin called the "All-Spark" that was launched into space, got caught in Earth's gravity and crashed. Much later Megatron (who had crash landed in his search of it) was brought out of stasis lock by Frenzy's intervention with the freezing equipment... etc.

I'm not sure where all this "magic" and "magically" comes from, but I'm pretty certain I can make any movie sound stupid by reinterpreting the plot into a comical parody.

Let's see: Some people run around and talk a lot occasionally killing other people and getting killed themselves in the process. Meanwhile two midgets risk their necks to throw a silly old ring that other people want really, really badly, into a magic volcano.

We were comparing the cartoons and the movie. Leave your elitist comic discussion to yourself please. Mainstream fans never cared about the comics anyway. Way to miss the whole point of the thread.

Transformers was historically a mutually supportive trio of toys, cartoons and comicbooks. Now that a live action feature film has been added to the mix it's easy to come up with comparisons between this new venture and the old ones. To accuse someone of elitism because they refer to one of the sources of Transformers lore that doesn't happen to be the cartoon is in itself an act of elitism. In point of fact there has only been one elitist post in this entire thread and it's yours Boiiinng.

 

[CFlash]

Written in 1984. So therefore not an analogy to our times. That's like saying Edgar Allen Poe wrote about George W Bush. IT was a children's toy commercial, not a sophisticated analogy. If they wanted that then they wouldn't have lifted G.I.Joe's plot and used it for a new toyline.

Again you're writing "CFlashes Transformers" and then retroactively claiming somehow it's the old cartoon. It's not, get over it. This is the height of fanboyism.

Wow. Horrible comparison. Even for you. 20 yrs = 150 yrs. You must be young... when I was a kid in the 80's I used to not "get" how Snake-Eyes fought in the Vietnam war because it was soooooooo long ago. You should study recent history a little more. If you can't see the stuff going on today started exactly a few years before Transformers' 1984 (Iran, terrorism, oil, gas shortages, high gas prices, not to mention the whole "Inconvenient Truth" notions).

Sorry for having an analytical mind rather than an ecyclopediac one. As others have pointed out, subtext isn't always something a writer knowingly puts into fiction. In fact, the best writing is one that doesn't know it's good writing. And, I never claimed Bob Budiansky was trying to say ANYTHING. I'm only saying the events of the time seeped into the premise of Transformers. Fine it was a toy commercial. That doesn't mean it wasn't an intelligent commercial. Answer me this: Why weren't Transformers- from day one- fighting over a castle... or searching for their "creator" like Gobots?

 

[CFlash]

Transformers much later when Beast Wars came out attempted to shore up all the inconsistencies and plot devices that riddled the old show by writing it things like that. Energon then became a naturally occuring Earth substance rather than "vague sh** that can come from anywhere".

And that's a dumbing down. Sorry. I know you like your fiction dumb. That's the same as making gasoline a naturally occuring substance rather than "vague sh**" like Petroleum.