Homecoming The Amazing Spider-Man 3 General Discussion - Part 2

[CaptainWagner]

What's wrong with "Kraven buries Spider-Man alive" part? I think it could be very powerful scene if done right and besides Spider-man still haven't had a movie where he's been defeated by his opponent in a straight up fight(Doc Ock doesn't count cause he cheated with the train brakes). The Fall and Rise, man, every hero should go through that.

I do agree with "Kraven takes Spider-Man's black costume and pretends to be Spider-Man" part being wtf though. Let's leave that to Venom.

-I don't think Kraven imitating Spider-man would be a problem. Now, eterbeing buried for an undefined amount of time WHILE Kraven is taking his place would be a pretty big issue.

 

[spider-neil]

If I were giving the film makers advice for the 3rd movie I would say the following;

1) Dispense with the parents storyline.
It isn't that interesting, takes up too much screen time without a big enough pay off and seemed resolved in the 2nd movie anyway. This plot path just isn't worth exploring any more.

2) Drop the love interest.
5 movies where Peter has been deeply involved. Give it a rest for one movie, if there has to be focus on a female character let it be Aunt May. You have an award winning actress, let her flex her muscles and explore relationship between her and Peter.

3) No origins.
There is a S6 movie on the way, if there are any origins to done, do it in that movie.
5 movies and there was an origin for every single one of the villains. Stop letting the origin eat up precious minutes of the movie.

4) Work on the pacing of the movie.
Two ASM movies which I have largly enjoyed but even I can't ignore the pacing problems of both movies. This series seems to linger on scenes it should be zipping through and rushes through scenes it should catch a breath.
They spent way too much time on the uninteresting parents storyline and rushed through the relationship between Harry and Peter which should have been given way more screen time. Devote the most time to aspects of movie that best serve the story.

5) Break the formula.
There have 5 movies now that all essentially feel the same, sure, some of the characters are different but it is essentially the same movie over and over again. Break away from the mold and explore new paths, takes risks rather than going down the tried and tested pathway. To be fair, they are attempting this with S6, let's hope the genre breaking spills over into ASM3.

6) Have a consistent tone.
Decide if the movie is going to light or dark and commit to it. If the movie is light than embrace the comic book aspects (**** fan backlash) and if the movie is meant to be dark then have that tone from the outset of the movie, switching tones during the movie is jarring.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

1. Mary Jane Watson.

2. J. Jonah Jameson and the Daily Bugle team.

3. Norman back as the true Green Goblin. Wears either a purple hood over his Goblin-like features or a green and purple suit. Has a glider of his own. Shocks everyone that he is still alive.

4. Mysterio or Chameleon as the main villain. I want to see with all the heartache and pain Peter has gone through that the 3rd film be darker and one of these two mess with Peter's head and emotions. He sees his father or Uncle Ben on the street; Gwen in a crowd of people. All these people who have either died or he couldn't save enter in and out of his life but one of the two villains is impersonating them. Heck, it would be cool too if Chameleon posed as Spider-Man and trumped up a boycott of the wallcrawler by J. Jonah Jameson.

5. Black suit? Maybe but it might be too much. I want this third film to grow, breathe, and have a decent plot. No more overlapping or overstuffing. So, as I said, I would rather see the black suit come in at Amazing Spider-Man 4. However, Eddie Brock Jr. could be introduced as an old friend of Peter's ala the Ultimate Spider-Man books or he's a rival photographer and journalist ala the 616 books. I would like to see him only be a 5-10 minute cameo. The writers could play up their rivalry a little but I don't want him to steal the show of the entire story and other characters.

6. Better editing. Don't chop down too much of the story or cool scenes. I'm perfectly fine watching a 2 and half to 3 hour Spider-Man film. Others would be too. One of the biggest errors of these new films is a lot of the stuff left in (Marton Csokas' Dr. Kafka and some of the campy Electro scenes should've been cut out and other scenes that actually served a purpose and didn't take the movie into "Batman & Robin"-territory should've been kept in.)

7. Better writing. I can see what "ASM2"'s writers were trying to do with the basis of time running out for Peter Parker but there was too much bouncing around from light to dark; serious and comical. There needs to be a consistency. Keep things sensible; consistent.

8. Black Cat? She could be like Catwoman in "The Dark Knight Rises." With the people of New York not being able to trust Spider-Man and not wanting him around anymore, she could tell him, "You don't owe them anything anymore. They hate you; they've abandoned you. What more do you have to prove to them?" And Spider-Man could answer, "Someone once told me that with great power comes great responsibility. I'll earn their trust back but I can't do it alone." Then the two go save the day; Spider-Man has to choose if he wants to be with Felicia or Mary Jane.

That is what I want for "The Amazing Spider-Man 3." Will we get it? To be determined.

 

[spiderral]

If I were giving the film makers advice for the 3rd movie I would say the following;

Spoiler

1) Dispense with the parents storyline.
It isn't that interesting, takes up too much screen time without a big enough pay off and seemed resolved in the 2nd movie anyway. This plot path just isn't worth exploring any more.

2) Drop the love interest.
5 movies where Peter has been deeply involved. Give it a rest for one movie, if there has to be focus on a female character let it be Aunt May. You have an award winning actress, let her flex her muscles and explore relationship between her and Peter.

3) No origins.
There is a S6 movie on the way, if there are any origins to done, do it in that movie.
5 movies and there was an origin for every single one of the villains. Stop letting the origin eat up precious minutes of the movie.

4) Work on the pacing of the movie.
Two ASM movies which I have largly enjoyed but even I can't ignore the pacing problems of both movies. This series seems to linger on scenes it should be zipping through and rushes through scenes it should catch a breath.
They spent way too much time on the uninteresting parents storyline and rushed through the relationship between Harry and Peter which should have been given way more screen time. Devote the most time to aspects of movie that best serve the story.

5) Break the formula.
There have 5 movies now that all essentially feel the same, sure, some of the characters are different but it is essentially the same movie over and over again. Break away from the mold and explore new paths, takes risks rather than going down the tried and tested pathway. To be fair, they are attempting this with S6, let's hope the genre breaking spills over into ASM3.

6) Have a consistent tone.
Decide if the movie is going to light or dark and commit to it. If the movie is light than embrace the comic book aspects (**** fan backlash) and if the movie is meant to be dark then have that tone from the outset of the movie, switching tones during the movie is jarring.

^^ Yep, all these points. I don't mind if the love interest is Black Cat but that should be it. It would interesting to see Peter/Spider-Man operating solely on his own and really just carrying out his duty as Spider-Man and not having to worry about anyone else other than Aunt May. Peter and Aunt may definitely need some more tender scenes together; she's all Peter has after losing Uncle Ben and Gwen.

 

[spiderral]

I don't think Norman should return, in any way, shape or form. Harry did what he was meant to do in TASM2 and too much emphasis was put on Harry being the Green Goblin, especially in marketing and the fact that they cut out the sub-plot about Oscorp having Peter under surveillance.

I'm actually quite glad that they cut out the post-credits scene with Norman's head, though I am very curious to know how they wanted to bring Norman back in TASM3 and what things they had in store for us (Ultimate Goblin?).

What if Norman's death, Harry's attack on Oscorp and Harry behind bars causes Oscorp to be shut down somehow in TASM3? Felicia could have exposed the dodgy doings at Oscorp (covering up Max's accident, the "special projects" etc.) to the public, causing Oscorp to be considered too dangerous to be around and then boom, no more Oscorp, there you go, that's it.

They only thing that they should really carry on over from TASM2 into TASM3 is Gwen's death; everything else they can forget.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Norman will be back, he is to big a character in the spider-man universe then just a highlight of killing gwen

You don't see any of the animated series backing out because they can have him kill gwen so what's the point of having him in it

 

[Airnick]

http://m.torontosun.com/2014/09/08/...excited-about-drew-goddard-doing-sinister-six

 

[W/ Great Power]

http://m.torontosun.com/2014/09/08/...excited-about-drew-goddard-doing-sinister-six

Hmm...

I really didn't think he would be in S6, but I'm starting to get a feeling he just might be.

I also feel like if we wait to see him in 2018, the audience might see too big of a difference in his appearance. But I guess it also depends on where S6 and TASM3 will pick up; either showing the gap between Gwen's death and the Rhino fight or immediately where we left with Spidey taking a swing at Rhino.

Too many questions in the air right now

 

[Airnick]

Hmm...

I really didn't think he would be in S6, but I'm starting to get a feeling he just might be.

I also feel like if we wait to see him in 2018, the audience might see too big of a difference in his appearance. But I guess it also depends on where S6 and TASM3 will pick up; either showing the gap between Gwen's death and the Rhino fight or immediately where we left with Spidey taking a swing at Rhino.

Too many questions in the air right now

I do think he'll be in it, I mean I don't know how they could do a SS movie, with out Spider-Man.

I doubt the SS or TASM3 will pick up where TASM2 left off. But you never know.

I know lol. We need more news.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Yeah, Sinister Six need to have some appeal for the audience and that means Spidey unless someone could point another idea.

 

[W/ Great Power]

I do think he'll be in it, I mean I don't know how they could do a SS movie, with out Spider-Man.

I doubt the SS or TASM3 will pick up where TASM2 left off. But you never know.

I know lol. We need more news.

I figured we would have Spider-Man in the form of a stunt double instead of Garfield. But I also mentioned elsewhere how they could pick up the idea they dropped of Oscorp's surveillance of Peter, and Garfield could be shown working at the Bugle.

Ideally for me, S6 will cover the time gap and TASM3 will pick up from the end of it.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I do think he'll be in it, I mean I don't know how they could do a SS movie, with out Spider-Man.

well if you are doing a sinister 6 movie with spider-man... then you probably use his name in the title for marketing purposes, since Spider-man: the sinister 6 is likely to sell better then... the sinister 6

only reason you don't use his name in the title is if he is not in it or his role is minimal, and you probably don't tell a spider-man vs the sinister 6 story from the villains point of view

i think spider-man will appear since they will want to acknowledge him but it won't be about him

 

[Andrew Lucas]

So should S6 drag itself to TASM3? I don't know if the Directors and producers will repeat the group on the third installment of the main franchise. What will be S6 objective in their movie? They need to fight Spidey.

 

[W/ Great Power]

Me too. Using Family Business as a storyline for a third film can remedy many of the issues with the last few films.

1) The story could tie up the whole storyline with Peter's Parents, while introducing a Return of the Jedi type element of long lost Peter's sister. The CIA element actually fits perfectly with what May alluded to in ASM 2.

2) The story is a globe trotting adventure which can take Spiderman outside of The streets of New York for a change and allow the Spiderman character to have a foreign adventure which broadens its storytelling possibilities. TDK partially took place in China, The Wolverine took place in Japan, etc so its Superheroes globe trotting is not un heard of. The fish out of water aspect of the story also has its advantages for the Peter Parker character.

3) Teresa Parker offers a great opportunity to introduce a strong female lead who isn't another love interest and who is actually crucial to the plot. You also don't have to repeat the same tropes of Peter struggling with his love life yet again with a new MJ. Save the love interest for ASM 4 and have Peter be on the rebound . In fact , Woodley could play Teresa as opposed to MJ.

4) Having a villain who also isn't bound to Oscorp and who isn't trying to destroy New York or whatever, but operates on a grander scale than Spiderman is use to on film would be another change from the previous films and could raise the stakes beyond lower Manhattan. A villain like Chameleon , who originally was a very international villain with the aid of henchmen like Sandman, Scorpion, Shocker etc. also breaks the trend of scientists and mentors who become Peter's villain , and instead can give us someone who is truly evil.

5) The story could be something fresh while at the same time keeping itself tied to the other two films. It hasn't been done in a Spiderman film before and it opens up opportunities for storytelling that the other films didn't have.

6) With the central characters being Peter, Teresa, The Villain, and Peter's Parents , you have a much tighter narrative and a chance to tell a very personal story yet set against an international and global backdrop.

While I think you'd have to change things from the comic , I think the structure could serve as a good foundation for a Spiderman film which isn't just a rehash of what all the other Spiderman films have done.

Alright, I'm finally getting back to this post.

1.) I can see that happening for sure. I would be on board with it, at least. It can serve as a subplot and add more depth to Peter's personal life. There was definitely something to expand on from that scene, and it also serves as continuity between TASM2 and TASM3. I would be interested to see how Webb and company tie Peter's sister back into his life, though. The GA will also wonder why his sister wasn't dropped off at Uncle Ben and Aunt May's place like Peter was. But if they're heavily emphasizing Peter's family, as it has seemed so far, they could take this course. I just hope it doesn't further bury Ben and May's role in Peter's life because we definitely need to see their significance emphasized more.

2.) The globetrotting element is great; just not for this series, in my opinion. The general environment has already been introduced and if they wanted to go with an expansion, I think there should have been signs of that in the first film. They could have also tied in another character from a different location in TASM1, just to set the agenda that the series is willing to go off the grid of NYC.

3.) The love interest aspect is certainly getting redundant to some people, as I believe I read in another thread. Personally, I think it's necessary as it has always been a huge part of Peter's life, but it certainly needs a break in TASM3 (especially after Gwen's death). I think the only people who know about Woodley's deleted scenes are Spidey fans like you and I, so I actually could see her as a sibling if I looked at the series from the GA's point of view.

4.) This ties back into with the second point I mentioned.

5.) Going in a new direction seems like a focal point for this series, with minor exceptions (showing the origin story again). That's definitely the motive for S6, so it could really open up for the doors of this new universe idea even more. Not only would we have new villains coming into the picture, but Peter's personal life would be taken to a whole new level.

6.) The sequencing of events in TASM2 was definitely a complaint, as I'm sure you have noticed. Going in this direction could add some continuity that this series is struggling with, especially in terms of the amount of plots and subplots it's trying to juggle.

Overall, these are great points that you brought up. Even if this series doesn't tackle them (since they still seem to be figuring out where its going themselves), these can be used as a solid foundation for a future reboot.

 

[GuestStar2004]

So should S6 drag itself to TASM3? I don't know if the Directors and producers will repeat the group on the third installment of the main franchise. What will be S6 objective in their movie? They need to fight Spidey.

i suspect they will cross the sinister 6 over with the next spider-man movie so its probably gonna be an origin story with each character being introduced and the reason for wanting to kill spider-man will probably be the cliff hanger ending

like i said there is no way they are calling a spider-man movie... the sinister 6, i mean obviously there is nothing stopping them from doing that but is that the logical thing to do? would you market a spider-man movie without his name on it?

is up to the creative team to make it work really, so we will have to wait and see what the main plot is

 

[Andrew Lucas]

i suspect they will cross the sinister 6 over with the next spider-man movie so its probably gonna be an origin story with each character being introduced and the reason for wanting to kill spider-man will probably be the cliff hanger ending

like i said there is no way they are calling a spider-man movie... the sinister 6, i mean obviously nothing stopping them from doing that but is that the logical thing to do?

is up to the creative team to make it work really, so we will have to wait and see what the main plot is

But the S6 movie need to have a climax right? It's basic storytelling. Any ideas cause besides going after Spider-Man I can hardly think of anything else. The movie can end with the group gearing up to catch their bug target.

This is very intriguing.

 

[GuestStar2004]

it is intriguing

But since Andrew is being kept updated he probably will have some involvement

 

[Frodo]

Alright, I'm finally getting back to this post.

1.) I can see that happening for sure. I would be on board with it, at least. It can serve as a subplot and add more depth to Peter's personal life. There was definitely something to expand on from that scene, and it also serves as continuity between TASM2 and TASM3. I would be interested to see how Webb and company tie Peter's sister back into his life, though. The GA will also wonder why his sister wasn't dropped off at Uncle Ben and Aunt May's place like Peter was. But if they're heavily emphasizing Peter's family, as it has seemed so far, they could take this course. I just hope it doesn't further bury Ben and May's role in Peter's life because we definitely need to see their significance emphasized more.

2.) The globetrotting element is great; just not for this series, in my opinion. The general environment has already been introduced and if they wanted to go with an expansion, I think there should have been signs of that in the first film. They could have also tied in another character from a different location in TASM1, just to set the agenda that the series is willing to go off the grid of NYC.

3.) The love interest aspect is certainly getting redundant to some people, as I believe I read in another thread. Personally, I think it's necessary as it has always been a huge part of Peter's life, but it certainly needs a break in TASM3 (especially after Gwen's death). I think the only people who know about Woodley's deleted scenes are Spidey fans like you and I, so I actually could see her as a sibling if I looked at the series from the GA's point of view.

4.) This ties back into with the second point I mentioned.

5.) Going in a new direction seems like a focal point for this series, with minor exceptions (showing the origin story again). That's definitely the motive for S6, so it could really open up for the doors of this new universe idea even more. Not only would we have new villains coming into the picture, but Peter's personal life would be taken to a whole new level.

6.) The sequencing of events in TASM2 was definitely a complaint, as I'm sure you have noticed. Going in this direction could add some continuity that this series is struggling with, especially in terms of the amount of plots and subplots it's trying to juggle.

Overall, these are great points that you brought up. Even if this series doesn't tackle them (since they still seem to be figuring out where its going themselves), these can be used as a solid foundation for a future reboot.

You made some good points though I would disagree with the globe trotting element fitting in this version. I think we've had enough Spiderman films that the audience would be willingly to follow the character on a different type of adventure that could span a couple countries the way Family business does. Especially if the story is a "one off" so to speak and he returns home at the end as opposed to it being a new aspect of the films going forward. While the first film established its own geography so to speak , a sequel could expand the pallet to a different location , especially if its a different villain like Chameleon or even Kingpin who have a broader international scope than Osborn. I think the first film had such a bare foundation and so many unexplored aspects that you could add to the mythology , especially if Richard and Mary were headed to one of the locations that the new film takes place in.

I think your observation about a foundation reboot ,is kinda more inline with the way I could see the film working. It could be a sequel but like Skyfall or Batman Forever, it could take places a few years after its predecessors in those cases Quantum of Solace and Batman Returns, but not be so slavishly bound to it that it can't tell its own story in the same continuity. So it would be a sequel and a sort of a recharging of the franchise as opposed to rebooting the whole thing. Preferably , you'd still bring back Garfield but I think it would have to be an older, mature , and wiser Peter Parker who in his mid twenties, and not the teen we last saw in ASM 2. In that sense it would be a different Peter.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

So should S6 drag itself to TASM3? I don't know if the Directors and producers will repeat the group on the third installment of the main franchise. What will be S6 objective in their movie? They need to fight Spidey.

It's almost going to have to drag into TASM3. This is just another dilemma that they've put themselves into. With the situation they're in, I don't think they can cram the entire Sinister Six plot in one movie. It almost has to be dragged into TASM3. All the people who are craving Norman Osborn/Green Goblin are gonna be waiting a lot longer than they anticipated.

 

[W/ Great Power]

You made some good points though I would disagree with the globe trotting element fitting in this version. I think we've had enough Spiderman films that the audience would be willingly to follow the character on a different type of adventure that could span a couple countries the way Family business does. Especially if the story is a "one off" so to speak and he returns home at the end as opposed to it being a new aspect of the films going forward. While the first film established its own geography so to speak , a sequel could expand the pallet to a different location , especially if its a different villain like Chameleon or even Kingpin who have a broader international scope than Osborn. I think the first film had such a bare foundation and so many unexplored aspects that you could add to the mythology , especially if Richard and Mary were headed to one of the locations that the new film takes place in.

I think your observation about a foundation reboot ,is kinda more inline with the way I could see the film working. It could be a sequel but like Skyfall or Batman Forever, it could take places a few years after its predecessors in those cases Quantum of Solace and Batman Returns, but not be so slavishly bound to it that it can't tell its own story in the same continuity. So it would be a sequel and a sort of a recharging of the franchise as opposed to rebooting the whole thing. Preferably , you'd still bring back Garfield but I think it would have to be an older, mature , and wiser Peter Parker who in his mid twenties, and not the teen we last saw in ASM 2. In that sense it would be a different Peter.

Trust me, I genuinely think you have great ideas; the only part where we're disagreeing is whether or not it could be the established in this series.

There's certainly a worldwide audience for Spider-Man. I have family in the Middle East, U.K., U.A.E, and Europe, and all of them have at least one person who is a Spidey fan. In fact, my family in Pakistan has Spidey posters on their walls. Japan is also another country where I can see a Spider-Man movie being filmed, as they too have a strong demand for him. There's a reason why the box office number for the international audience was around $700M.

But in regards to this series, what about May? What about Captain Stacy telling Peter, "This city needs you"? His death wasn't just significant for Peter and Gwen's relationship, but the fall of NYPD's leadership meant that Peter/Spider-Man is the new law (at least that's what I took from it). What about Peter returning at the end of TASM2 and establishing himself as NYC's hero? Also, Webb and company showing NYC without Spider-Man would absolutely mean squat if they went international in this series. But on the other hand, I guess you could look at it as foreshadowing if they went that route

This series has embedded a relationship between Spidey and NYC too firmly already. If we go international for a reboot, I'll shut up and you can take my money.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Trust me, I genuinely think you have great ideas; the only part where we're disagreeing is whether or not it could be the established in this series.

There's certainly a worldwide audience for Spider-Man. I have family in the Middle East, U.K., U.A.E, and Europe, and all of them have at least one person who is a Spidey fan. In fact, my family in Pakistan has Spidey posters on their walls. Japan is also another country where I can see a Spider-Man movie being filmed, as they too have a strong demand for him. There's a reason why the box office number for the international audience was around $700M.

But in regards to this series, what about May? What about Captain Stacy telling Peter, "This city needs you"? His death wasn't just significant for Peter and Gwen's relationship, but the fall of NYPD's leadership meant that Peter/Spider-Man is the new law (at least that's what I took from it). What about Peter returning at the end of TASM2 and establishing himself as NYC's hero? Also, Webb and company showing NYC without Spider-Man would absolutely mean squat if they went international in this series. But on the other hand, I guess you could look at it as foreshadowing if they went that route

This series has embedded a relationship between Spidey and the NYC too firmly already. If we go international for a reboot, I'll shut up and you can take my money.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Why do we need Norman now? Someone give me one important reason to bring him back. Forget about the comics for a second and focus solely on this film series. Why bring a man back who was in one scene? He literally adds nothing since Harry is now the Goblin.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Why do we need Norman now? Someone give me one important reason to bring him back. Forget about the comics for a second and focus solely on this film series. Why bring a man back who was in one scene? He literally adds nothing since Harry is now the Goblin.

Well if we forget about the comics for a second as you say then harry being the goblin shouldn't mean anything about what they bring back Norman to do

I have seen so many different versions Norman Osborn in different types of media anyway

 

[GuestStar2004]

It wouldn't surprise me if spider-man is in the sinister 6 but in certain parts with Andrew doing the voice, maybe a villains is doing something solo like robbing a bank and spidey turns up with Andrews voice over to stop them and we get a small fight from the prospective of the villain

Its possible as some how I don't see them having spidey fight the sinister 6 in that movie and if they did... Well I think that would be another rushed mistake

 

[spider-neil]

I don't think Garfield will be in this movie unless it's his dubbed voice behind a mask.
I think Spidey's involvement will be restricted to an after credit scene.