Homecoming The Amazing Spider-Man 3 General Discussion - Part 8

[Tymminator]

I loved "Kraven's Last Hunt", but them doing that is a short term patch to the long term issue they have.

Not to mention, KLH worked well back in the day as he was a classic villain that after a couple decades of history against Spidey, he fnally had that story as a pay-off to all his previous stories.

IMO, to introduce Kraven just to jump straight into that story is a disservice to both the character and the story, and again, even if they did that well that's not a long term fix/plan for Sony's ills.

 

[kaijunexus]

A collaborative deal is worse than Sony just retaining the rights until the end of time.

Marvel Studios collaborating with any other studio in any kind of creative capacity is the death of the MCU. It's a poison. A virus that will slowly deteriorate the pure cinematic universe that has been carefully molded over the past several years by the very company that created these beloved characters.

Marvel needs to maintain a creative firewall around the MCU. Spidey should not be allowed through so long as any remnants on Sony is attached to him.

 

[Eddie]

A collaborative deal is worse than Sony just retaining the rights until the end of time.

Marvel Studios collaborating with any other studio in any kind of creative capacity is the death of the MCU. It's a poison. A virus that will slowly deteriorate the pure cinematic universe that has been carefully molded over the past several years by the very company that created these beloved characters.

Marvel needs to maintain a creative firewall around the MCU. Spidey should not be allowed through so long as any remnants on Sony is attached to him.

That's an interesting take on things, considering their second film was a co-production with another studio.

I think people forget that The Incredible Hulk was the result of a collaboration between Marvel and Universal. Hulk exists in the MCU because two studios were able to come together on a film. The only reason that The Avengers was able to include the scene that cracked up audiences everywhere was that two studios *gasp!* worked together to bring a character into a new film franchise where Marvel characters could coexist.

Don't pretend you didn't know exactly which scene I was talking about.​

 

[harryoscop]

I absolutely hated Kraven's Last Hunt.

 

[OriginalMiles]

Good for u

 

[Stormz96]

I loved "Kraven's Last Hunt", but them doing that is a short term patch to the long term issue they have.

Not to mention, KLH worked well back in the day as he was a classic villain that after a couple decades of history against Spidey, he fnally had that story as a pay-off to all his previous stories.

IMO, to introduce Kraven just to jump straight into that story is a disservice to both the character and the story, and again, even if they did that well that's not a long term fix/plan for Sony's ills.

They'd have to at least establish that spiderman was an obsession of his for a long time.

But I agree, it was the culmination of years of stories. It'd be hard to throw that into one film

 

[W/ Great Power]

Garfield won't be.

He'll be waking up to Emma Stone on that glorious Monday.

I think he'll be fine

 

[harryoscop]

He'll be waking up to Avi Arad and Pascal on that glorious Monday.

I think he'll be pissed

Fixed.

 

[spider-neil]

"Kraven's Last Hunt" aka one of the worst Spider-Man stories of all time IMO.

If you say so.

 

[W/ Great Power]

Fixed.

I think by then he will have digested everything.

Hell, he might have already, given it's pretty clear he won't be returning.

 

[harryoscop]

He must feel terrible about all of this though.
I will admit, I loved TASM1 ah, memories.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

That's an interesting take on things, considering their second film was a co-production with another studio.

I think people forget that The Incredible Hulk was the result of a collaboration between Marvel and Universal. Hulk exists in the MCU because two studios were able to come together on a film. The only reason that The Avengers was able to include the scene that cracked up audiences everywhere was that two studios *gasp!* worked together to bring a character into a new film franchise where Marvel characters could coexist.

Don't pretend you didn't know exactly which scene I was talking about.​

Aaaannnddd we've never seen Hulk go solo again nor will we for at least the next 4 years.

 

[spider-neil]

Aaaannnddd we've never seen Hulk go solo again nor will we for at least the next 4 years.

I don't think the Hulk works well in solo movies. It's hard to get invested in the drama of Bruce Banner because you are impatient for him to turn into the Hulk. When Hulk is in Avengers you don't mind when he is Bruce because he is surrounded by colourful characters.

Personally speaking I preferred the Ang Lee version of Hulk to the Marvel version but the audience didn't like the AL version for the reason I stated, they wanted 'HULK SMASH!'

 

[Ghostcrow13]

I don't think the Hulk works well in solo movies. It's hard to get invested in the drama of Bruce Banner because you are impatient for him to turn into the Hulk. When Hulk is in Avengers you don't mind when he is Bruce because he is surrounded by colourful characters.

Personally speaking I preferred the Ang Lee version of Hulk to the Marvel version but the audience didn't like the AL version for the reason I stated, they wanted 'HULK SMASH!'

I think partly to do with that and also partly to do with the Universal thing. Hulk 2 would make big bucks so I'm sure they'd want to try and find a way of making a great solo film with him in it. They could easily have added Hawkeye or other interesting characters to spice up the scenes without Hulk.

 

[spider-neil]

As for Spider-Man movies, I want to a good movie that 'happens' to have Spider-Man rather than a Spider-Man movie that 'happens' to be good. If that makes sense.
By that I mean I want a 'proper' (serious) movie, with movie lighting, movie dialogue, movie direction and have Spider-Man smack in the middle of it, rather than a comic book Spider-Man movie that aims to good.

I wont say Batman Begins because the last 20 minutes bored the crap out of me, but TDK to me a movie that is technically brilliant on every level, it just 'happens' to have Batman in it. I soooo want that for Spider-Man. Amazing Spider-Man (the first one) tries to do that but the movie is hampered with trying to insert the origin (which they should have cut) and the parents storyline which was tedious.

I don't know how many people have seen 'The Untouchables', a mob movie starring Costner and Connery. Basically, the good guys know about the mob but aren't willing to do anything about it until Elliot Ness shows up. Now imagine the sensibilities of a serious crime drama with the lighting, dialogue, and direction that goes with that but it stars Spider-Man. No origin, no love story, just Spider-Man trying to take down the mob and realising that despite his powers he is hopelessly out of his depth. For me that would trump the flashy, glitzy, wham bam sock'em of a CBM. Plus the movie wont date itself with the cheese that normally is involved with a comic book movie.

That is what I want to see but I doubt I will get it, especially with the likes of Goddard wanting to introduce 100 foot Sandman. Oh well, at least I got the serious and sophisticated movie with Batman. And before someone says, 'Spider-Man isn't supposed to be serious and sophisticated he is supposed to be bright and colourful'. Why can't you have a bright and colourful CHARACTER in a serious and sophisticated movie? And no, that isn't a contradiction.

 

[spider-neil]

I think partly to do with that and also partly to do with the Universal thing. Hulk 2 would make big bucks so I'm sure they'd want to try and find a way of making a great solo film with him in it. They could easily have added Hawkeye or other interesting characters to spice up the scenes without Hulk.

To make Hulk work you need a likeable character (for example one of; Wolverine, Thor, Iron Man, Spider-Man) as the Hulk antagonist who is committed with taking Hulk down. That way there are no dull moments because when Hulk is in Bruce mode you will have the antagonist character to keep the audience engaged.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

As for Spider-Man movies, I want to a good movie that 'happens' to have Spider-Man rather than a Spider-Man movie that 'happens' to be good. If that makes sense.
By that I mean I want a 'proper' (serious) movie, with movie lighting, movie dialogue, movie direction and have Spider-Man smack in the middle of it, rather than a comic book Spider-Man movie that aims to good.

I wont say Batman Begins because the last 20 minutes bored the crap out of me, but TDK to me a movie that is technically brilliant on every level, it just 'happens' to have Batman in it. I soooo want that for Spider-Man. Amazing Spider-Man (the first one) tries to do that but the movie is hampered with trying to insert the origin (which they should have cut) and the parents storyline which was tedious.

I don't know how many people have seen 'The Untouchables', a mob movie starring Costner and Connery. Basically, the good guys know about the mob but aren't willing to do anything about it until Elliot Ness shows up. Now imagine the sensibilities of a serious crime drama with the lighting, dialogue, and direction that goes with that but it stars Spider-Man. No origin, no love story, just Spider-Man trying to take down the mob and realising that despite his powers he is hopelessly out of his depth. For me that would trump the flashy, glitzy, wham bam sock'em of a CBM. Plus the movie wont date itself with the cheese that normally is involved with a comic book movie.

That is what I want to see but I doubt I will get it, especially with the likes of Goddard wanting to introduce 100 foot Sandman. Oh well, at least I got the serious and sophisticated movie with Batman.

The problem is Spider-man can't be like Batman, because a lot of Batmans villains and Batman himself can lend themselves to seriousness.

There is something inherently silly about most of Spidermans villains and if you try and get all serious with it, it ends up being worse as you try and ground and make something serious which needs a bit of light heartedness to it ie Man of Steel.

Yes make it more serious than TASM2, but don't try and make Spiderman Nolans Batman, it won't work.

 

[spider-neil]

The problem is Spider-man can't be like Batman, because a lot of Batmans villains and Batman himself can lend themselves to seriousness.

There is something inherently silly about most of Spidermans villains and if you try and get all serious with it, it ends up being worse as you try and ground and make something serious which needs a bit of light heartedness to it ie Man of Steel.

Yes make it more serious than TASM2, but don't try and make Spiderman Nolans Batman, it won't work.

I disagree, off the top of my head;
Kingpin
Hammerhead
Silvermane
Chameleon
Silver Sable
Punisher (created in Spider-Man)

All street level and realistic antagonists. You would be making a serious crime drama but the protagonist (hero) would be a character that makes wise cracks as he is taking the bad guys down. Other than that aspect of the hero, the movie would be no different from any other crime movie with supporting characters, weight, consequences and drama.

Further, we've SEEN the funny, cheesy, golly gosh Spider-Man and it's time for something new and fresh. Just like it was time for something new and fresh after Batman and Robin.

 

[harryoscop]

The problem is Spider-man can't be like Batman, because a lot of Batmans villains and Batman himself can lend themselves to seriousness.

There is something inherently silly about most of Spidermans villains and if you try and get all serious with it, it ends up being worse as you try and ground and make something serious which needs a bit of light heartedness to it ie Man of Steel.

Yes make it more serious than TASM2, but don't try and make Spiderman Nolans Batman, it won't work.

The Amazing Spider-Man says hi.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

The Amazing Spider-Man says hi.

Lol, first in no way is that a crime drama or anywhere near serious on the level of the Nolan Batman films, and second ASM can not be considered a great Spider-man film even if you think it is the majority do not.

 

[spider-neil]

The Amazing Spider-Man says hi.

ASM dips its toe into the 'serious' pool but doesn't fully jump in especially with the Lizard as the antagonist and the crazy plan to turn NY into Lizards but other than that the tone and direction of the movie was sound.

 

[harryoscop]

ASM dips its toe into the 'serious' pool but doesn't fully jump in especially with the Lizard as the antagonist and the crazy plan to turn NY into Lizards but other than that the tone and direction of the movie was sound.

The Lizard could've been done better, but think he was pretty freaking scary. I really don't get everyone saying his plan was silly.. he wants everyone to be like him. what was so silly about that?

I have no interest in seeing Hammerhead, Silverman, The Chameleon or Silver Sable anytime soon. first we need to see Venom, Green Goblin or Rhino done right.

 

[spider-neil]

Spider-Man has been Spider-Man for a year and has been taking down petty bad guys and it is costing Kingpin a fortune even though Spider-Man doesn't know the Kingpin exists. An informant tells Spider-Man of the Kingpin of Crime and Spider-Man decides to take Kingpin down despite the Police not wanting to lift a finger. Kingpin sends a super powered villain after Spider-Man (tech rather than powers). Close the movie With Spider-Man no nearer to getting Kingpin and Kingpin vowing to learn who the Spider-Man is and destroying his loved ones.

Keep CG down to a minimum and use performances to keep audiences engaged. But when you do have fights the fight has to have weight consequences and use practical effects. I want to see something like that. Currently, Spider-Man's 'Dark Knight' is SM2, I think something that relies heavily on performances and drama would top SM2.

 

[spider-neil]

The Lizard could've been done better, but think he was pretty freaking scary. I really don't get everyone saying his plan was silly.. he wants everyone to be like him. what was so silly about that?

I have no interest in seeing Hammerhead, Silverman, The Chameleon or Silver Sable anytime soon. first we need to see Venom, Green Goblin or Rhino done right.

Lizard was a missed opportunity. They should have dropped the origin and done a beat for beat re-enactment of SSM Lizard episode. No master plan to take over NY, just a personal tale of Peter, Conners and his family and Spider-Man and how it weighs on Peter to turn in Conners despite what it will do to the Conners family. Would have made for a MUCH better storyline that the parents and losing the origin is no loss as everyone knows the origin already.

 

[Ghostcrow13]

Spider-Man has been Spider-Man for a year and has been taking down petty bad guys and it is costing Kingpin a fortune even though Spider-Man doesn't know the Kingpin exists. An informant tells Spider-Man of the Kingpin of Crime and Spider-Man decides to take Kingpin down despite the Police not wanting to lift a finger. Kingpin sends a super powered villain after Spider-Man (tech rather than powers). Close the movie With Spider-Man no nearer to getting Kingpin and Kingpin vowing to learn who the Spider-Man is and destroying his loved ones.

Keep CG down to a minimum and use performances to keep audiences engaged. But when you do have fights the fight has to have weight consequences and use practical effects. I want to see something like that. Currently, Spider-Man's 'Dark Knight' is SM2, I think something that relies heavily on performances and drama would top SM2.

But do you want jokes and comedy moments with Spider-man?

Because this is the confusing thing, yes your plot idea sounds good and is in fact very close to the one I was thinking of (in fact I was planning on making a thread cos I just spent a few days away without internet and pretty much came up with a plot for 3 Spidey films) but then to some any kind of humor in these films inherently makes it less serious and dramatic.