Homecoming The Amazing Spider-Man 3 General Discussion - Part 9

[The Joker]

Damn hating at its finest.

I'll take that as a compliment

But ok that's fine but still venom is an amazing villian.

I've yet to see a convincing argument for that. It's one thing to enjoy Venom for what he is, but when I see people say he's an amazing villain and Spidey's top enemy, it's an opinion that just makes no sense to me. And not because of any bias towards any particular villain, but because of how the character has been handled since his creation. It just does not match with these opinions. Not even close.

People want him in the movies

People want to see Twylight movies and bad Michael Bay movies, too.

kids love him

Of course they do. He's all style and no substance. Perfect for kids. The biggest reason why he has the status he has. He's been overrated by kids who were easily jazzed by an evil looking Spider-Man character with Spider-Man powers. Even Sam Raimi noticed that:

'I had never read Venom in the comic books, since they came after my time. Because of that, I didn't have a natural inclination toward him. And when I read those comics, at [producer] Avi Arad's urging, I didn't understand where Venom's humanity was. I know that kids think he looks cool, and they think he's a good villain for Spider-Man. I actually didn't. What was it about Peter's own makeup that this villain represented some weaker or darker side to? Just looking like a dark version of him is not enough for me. The more I read [Venom stories], the less interested I became.'

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20037557,00.html

and he's pretty much second to goblin as spiders main villian.

Since when? Is he the villain who killed Captain Stacy? Beat Black Cat to near death and made Spidey say goodbye to all his loved ones? Put Aunt May in hospital? Put Spider-Man in this iconic harrowing situation:

Formed the iconic Sinister Six? Killed Spider-Man and took over his body and life for two years? No offense but I cannot for the life of me fathom how Venom could possibly be seen as second to Green Goblin. Here's the top two Spidey villains hanging out together like the A-list bad asses they are:

I do love that line there where Norman says he's Spidey's greatest enemy, and Ock replies that's up for debate. Even Spidey himself would agree:

Sure I love doc ock but I love venom cuz he wants to make spideys life a living hell and not cuz he kept throwing him in jail.

The reason he wants to make Spidey's life a living hell is as amateur as they come. You could find a better motive on the back of a cereal box. When the foundation for a character feud is so weak, it makes the whole thing a joke.

Imagine Peter became Spider-Man because someone stole his homework. Could you take his life as Spider-Man seriously based on that? It's the same as Brock hating Spider-Man because he caught a serial killer. It's as idiotic as they come. Their feud is a whole bunch of nothing.

Btw I don't like Eddie Brock's motives in the comic but the cartoons and other things have him clear motives. Rivals at the daily bugle Peter get out shining him and stealing his spot light proved he was a liar and ruined his life. That's not motivation? Venom fo life!

Glad to hear you don't like the comic version. I thought that's what you're trying to defend here. The cartoon and movie versions are definite improvements over the comic book one (I like the Spider-Man 3 and SSM ones best), though that's very easy to do. But you know they are not the character as a whole. Just media adaptions of him. It would be like saying Schumacher's Batman movies represents Batman as a whole.

Mcu will def put him in if the deal is made

I'm sure they will. But that won't make him a better villain all of a sudden in the comics.

I am all for a better version of Venom in the movies, or anywhere he's featured. Raimi's Venom and SSM cartoon Venom are the only two versions I legitimately enjoy and think are decent versions of the character.

Shattered dimensions was really good but yeah no sm 2 or close to the batman arkham games but I do think dimensions was a really good like 8.5/10 game. Unlimited was right there with sm 2 has the best sm games. Unlimited was great.

I liked Dimensions but my main problem was it was very repetitive. Go into a dimension, fight some thugs, then take out a level boss and get a piece of that mystical stone. Wash, rinse, repeat. There was no real story to it. Just random level hopping. Unlike the Arkham games which felt like a long Batman graphic novel in game form.

Dimensions is still a fun game, but the previous Spidey aforementioned Spidey games felt more like a Spider-Man comic come to life, with more diversity, and more engaging character interactions and story.

 

[LizardMan07]

Spider-Man 2000 is my absolute favorite PC game, remember playing it with my brother, we were both huge spidey fans.

Wish I could play it again, no way to do so anymore I think. Sad times indeed.

I'd suggest not trying to argue that Venom is better than Ock or Goblin by the way guys, it's probably not going to go down too well.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Yeah, Venom doesn't stand a chance against the might of Dr. Otto Octavious! He and that Norman punk can just go take a hike.

 

[TheSpectacular]

Wow, I thought Venom was considered a top-tier villain. Guess not

 

[W/ Great Power]

it should have ended with a heart to heart with aunt may. Uncle ben is to aunt may even more than what gwen was to peter. She see's the rhino rampaging on tv, it's implied she know's his secret, and she goes to confront her moping nephew. She tells him to celebrate the time he had with gwen and to be thankful he was blessed to have been a part of her life. That a part of her has never moved on from ben's death,and that she very well may feel that way for the rest of her life, but that she has obligations and the world spins on. She tells him to remember what uncle ben always told him "with great power comes great responsibility."- cue the ending we see.

I always thought it was selfish of peter he spends all this time on his parents, mopes over gwen, while the woman who raised him and is morning the loss of her husband is swept entirely under the rug.

This is an ending I would have wholeheartedly supported. If they wanted to show a comeback, this didn't have to actually show part of a fight that was most likely going to be continued in the sequel - that itself was one of the worst decisions by the series.

I would have loved to see this scene followed by Peter suiting up as Spidey and swinging towards the scene of Rhino's rampage. Plus, it emphasizes May's role in Peter's life rather than the wasted focus of the parents. Instead, they decided to have one of the worst cutoffs in the end of a film, and actually contemplated having Peter's father show up at Gwen's grave.

 

[ironwez20]

I'll take that as a compliment



I've yet to see a convincing argument for that. It's one thing to enjoy Venom for what he is, but when I see people say he's an amazing villain and Spidey's top enemy, it's an opinion that just makes no sense to me. And not because of any bias towards any particular villain, but because of how the character has been handled since his creation. It just does not match with these opinions. Not even close.



People want to see Twylight movies and bad Michael Bay movies, too.



Of course they do. He's all style and no substance. Perfect for kids. The biggest reason why he has the status he has. He's been overrated by kids who were easily jazzed by an evil looking Spider-Man character with Spider-Man powers. Even Sam Raimi noticed that:

'I had never read Venom in the comic books, since they came after my time. Because of that, I didn't have a natural inclination toward him. And when I read those comics, at [producer] Avi Arad's urging, I didn't understand where Venom's humanity was. I know that kids think he looks cool, and they think he's a good villain for Spider-Man. I actually didn't. What was it about Peter's own makeup that this villain represented some weaker or darker side to? Just looking like a dark version of him is not enough for me. The more I read [Venom stories], the less interested I became.'

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20037557,00.html



Since when? Is he the villain who killed Captain Stacy? Beat Black Cat to near death and made Spidey say goodbye to all his loved ones? Put Aunt May in hospital? Put Spider-Man in this iconic harrowing situation:

Formed the iconic Sinister Six? Killed Spider-Man and took over his body and life for two years? No offense but I cannot for the life of me fathom how Venom could possibly be seen as second to Green Goblin. Here's the top two Spidey villains hanging out together like the A-list bad asses they are:

I do love that line there where Norman says he's Spidey's greatest enemy, and Ock replies that's up for debate. Even Spidey himself would agree:

The reason he wants to make Spidey's life a living hell is as amateur as they come. You could find a better motive on the back of a cereal box. When the foundation for a character feud is so weak, it makes the whole thing a joke.

Imagine Peter became Spider-Man because someone stole his homework. Could you take his life as Spider-Man seriously based on that? It's the same as Brock hating Spider-Man because he caught a serial killer. It's as idiotic as they come. Their feud is a whole bunch of nothing.



Glad to hear you don't like the comic version. I thought that's what you're trying to defend here. The cartoon and movie versions are definite improvements over the comic book one (I like the Spider-Man 3 and SSM ones best), though that's very easy to do. But you know they are not the character as a whole. Just media adaptions of him. It would be like saying Schumacher's Batman movies represents Batman as a whole.



I'm sure they will. But that won't make him a better villain all of a sudden in the comics.



I liked Dimensions but my main problem was it was very repetitive. Go into a dimension, fight some thugs, then take out a level boss and get a piece of that mystical stone. Wash, rinse, repeat. There was no real story to it. Just random level hopping. Unlike the Arkham games which felt like a long Batman graphic novel in game form.

Dimensions is still a fun game, but the previous Spidey aforementioned Spidey games felt more like a Spider-Man comic come to life, with more diversity, and more engaging character interactions and story.

If you wanna keep bringing black cat into the subject then you forgot venom beat the crap out of her and interegated her to tell him where Peter was. Also as his first attempt at getting back at Peter he went after the one he loved most. Mary Jane. Scaring her half to death. Then kept hanging around and helping aunt may while Peter tried stopping him. Hell there was a part in the comic where Eddie, aunt may and Peter were at the house and Eddie was about to hug aunt may so Peter grabbed his hand but wasn't strong enough to hold his arm away.
Pretty intense stuff. Venoms motives are pretty much the same if not better than any other villian spidey faced. "O you foiled my plans now I must kill you" also remember doc ock didn't indirectly kill capt stacy his arms just went out of control knocking concrete down which was about to hit a child but Stacy pushed him away and got hit.
You can hate venom all you want but he's an awesome villian and not some cheap knockoff. I swear if marvel gets the rights then venom would be a sight to see on screen. I'm not knocking other villians either I love em all but venom is just a beast and a great villian who played mind games with Parker and that would be awesome to see on screen. He's like bane but ten times worse.

Imo

 

[The Joker]

If you wanna keep bringing black cat into the subject then you forgot venom beat the crap out of her and interegated her to tell him where Peter was.

Yes but that's all it was. He roughed her up a bit to interrogate her. It lasted like three panels of a single page. An entire several issue arc of what Ock did to Black Cat was done. She was put in hospital on life support in critical condition.

Venom just left her with a few bumps and bruises.

Also as his first attempt at getting back at Peter he went after the one he loved most. Mary Jane. Scaring her half to death.

He scared MJ. Big deal. She got a fright. You really going to tell me that's worth mentioning? In that case let me bring up this:

Looks a tad more serious than giving her a fright wouldn't you say

Then kept hanging around and helping aunt may while Peter tried stopping him. Hell there was a part in the comic where Eddie, aunt may and Peter were at the house and Eddie was about to hug aunt may so Peter grabbed his hand but wasn't strong enough to hold his arm away.
Pretty intense stuff.

Skulking around Aunt May's house making Peter paranoid vs moving into Aunt May's house, trashing it, and causing her to have a stroke and be hospitalized.

Ock - 1
Venom - 0

Venoms motives are pretty much the same if not better than any other villian spidey faced.

Explain to me how Venom hating Spider-Man because he caught a serial killer is both the same motive and a better one, too, for any villain Spidey has.

Spare no expense on the detail.

"O you foiled my plans now I must kill you"

You're right. Someone who thwarts your goals and puts you in prison is not a good reason to want to kill someone. Going after someone you never met because they caught a dangerous serial killer, now that's the stuff great feuds are made of

also remember doc ock didn't indirectly kill capt stacy his arms just went out of control knocking concrete down which was about to hit a child but Stacy pushed him away and got hit.

That's not the point. Ock had become so dangerous and unstoppable that Spidey had to create a new webbing formula that interfered with Ock's mental ability to control his arms. It was a direct consequence of how deadly Ock had become that Spidey had to resort to desperate measures to try and stop him, and the consequences were Captain Stacy's death.

Has anything like that ever happened as a result of Venom's so called danger factor? Of course not.

You can hate venom all you want but he's an awesome villian and not some cheap knockoff.

That wasn't convincing the last two times you told me that. You like Venom, good for you. Not knocking that.

I swear if marvel gets the rights then venom would be a sight to see on screen.

See that's exactly what the kids would say. "He looks soooooo cool". That's how Venom sells. Cool looks. All style and no substance.

I'm not knocking other villians either I love em all but venom is just a beast and a great villian who played mind games with Parker and that would be awesome to see on screen. He's like bane but ten times worse.

Bane figured out Batman's identity by himself, physically and mentally wore him down, and then broke his back and took over Gotham City.

Venom has never achieved anything half as significant or devastating as that against Spidey.

 

[HanShotFirst]

Look at all them hipsters hating on something popular.

 

[Spider-Ock]

Joker, sorry man you are wrong.

The greatest Spidey villain isn't Doc Ock. It isn't Goblin. It certainly isn't Venom. The greatest Spidey villain of all time is

Spoiler

Spoiler

Paste Pot Pete :P.

 

[The Joker]

Joker, sorry man you are wrong.

The greatest Spidey villain isn't Doc Ock. It isn't Goblin. It certainly isn't Venom. The greatest Spidey villain of all time is

Spoiler

Spoiler

Paste Pot Pete :P.

That guy needs to make a comeback. Even just for one issue.

 

[Erzengel]

Spider-Man's greatest enemy is Sony.

 

[harryoscop]

Damn, Joker really, really hates Venom..

 

[Tymminator]

Spider-Man's greatest enemy is Sony.

THIS I agree with.

 

[Naked Shia]

Obviously, there is no other as... unique as PPP is.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Venom is what happens when you milk a character that was only supposed to be temporary and is not meant for long term use. He wasn’t supposed to be anything other than a temporary foil for Spider-Man, but the big popularity of the storyline meant that Marvel needed to keep the character around, and as then it became obvious how one-dimensional Venom really is and how much Marvel didn’t know what to do with the character. They try all stupid thing with Venom, he has gone back and forth between villain, hero and outcast, as well as different people getting his symbiote. And with these weird character turns, audiences never really know what to think of him.

 

[ironwez20]

Yes but that's all it was. He roughed her up a bit to interrogate her. It lasted like three panels of a single page. An entire several issue arc of what Ock did to Black Cat was done. She was put in hospital on life support in critical condition.

Venom just left her with a few bumps and bruises.



He scared MJ. Big deal. She got a fright. You really going to tell me that's worth mentioning? In that case let me bring up this:

Looks a tad more serious than giving her a fright wouldn't you say



Skulking around Aunt May's house making Peter paranoid vs moving into Aunt May's house, trashing it, and causing her to have a stroke and be hospitalized.

Ock - 1
Venom - 0



Explain to me how Venom hating Spider-Man because he caught a serial killer is both the same motive and a better one, too, for any villain Spidey has.

Spare no expense on the detail.



You're right. Someone who thwarts your goals and puts you in prison is not a good reason to want to kill someone. Going after someone you never met because they caught a dangerous serial killer, now that's the stuff great feuds are made of



That's not the point. Ock had become so dangerous and unstoppable that Spidey had to create a new webbing formula that interfered with Ock's mental ability to control his arms. It was a direct consequence of how deadly Ock had become that Spidey had to resort to desperate measures to try and stop him, and the consequences were Captain Stacy's death.

Has anything like that ever happened as a result of Venom's so called danger factor? Of course not.



That wasn't convincing the last two times you told me that. You like Venom, good for you. Not knocking that.



See that's exactly what the kids would say. "He looks soooooo cool". That's how Venom sells. Cool looks. All style and no substance.



Bane figured out Batman's identity by himself, physically and mentally wore him down, and then broke his back and took over Gotham City.

Venom has never achieved anything half as significant or devastating as that against Spidey.

He smashed black cats head against a wall.As for doc ock Mary jane big deal he strangles her on a cover. And no people don't like venom cuz he looks "cool" they like him cuz he's anti spiderman and is bassically his superior in power not to mention the stories and cartoons involved with him.

spidey made a special webbing for doc ock? So what spiderman went to the fantastic four for help cuz he had no way to bring him down. Just becuase you don't like venom doesn't mean his impact on spiderman should be glossed over.

What's with this style over substance stuff. They literally tried making different symbiotes and villians after venom to one up him so for him to be as popular as he is must mean somthing.
As for bane? Again so what, venom knows his identity and toyed with his mind causing him to have parnioa and not to mention he couldn't trigger the spider sense. And beat his ass and threatened to reveal his identity to the world.Then made his life a living hell. Again the comics were not the best origin but the 90s cartoon did it better.

Soooooooo yea this isn't a big deal I won't change your mind. You have hate for the character but that doesn't make him a bad villian. Mainly just you and others think so cuz he ain't da golden age of comics. Buts it's cool man I can't change your mind. I won't take this any further.

Venom for da win!!!!!

 

[ironwez20]

Venom is what happens when you milk a character that was only supposed to be temporary and is not meant for long term use. He wasn’t supposed to be anything other than a temporary foil for Spider-Man, but the big popularity of the storyline meant that Marvel needed to keep the character around, and as then it became obvious how one-dimensional Venom really is and how much Marvel didn’t know what to do with the character. They try all stupid thing with Venom, he has gone back and forth between villain, hero and outcast, as well as different people getting his symbiote. And with these weird character turns, audiences never really know what to think of him.

So is it like doc ock fans that hate venom or what ? Lol. I will agree they milked the symbiotes. Made a bunch of em

 

[Naked Shia]

the true anti spiderman is spiderman 2099 though. He's serious when spidey is humorous, his suit is mostly blue with some red, and he's half mexican.

 

[JOE]

You could make any villain sound useless with that much effort towards watering down what they've done in the comics...

"Venom only did this, but GG and Ock did this!"
"Venom is style over substance, GG and Ock have tons of substance!"
"Kids like Venom because they're stupid and just like his appearance/powers."

There's no right or wrong answers, unless you want to go by comic sales. Either way, Spidey has a great lineup of villains. Fighting over which ones are better is irrelevant, especially with such biased opinions. This isn't going anywhere, just long posts of hating BS.

 

[Naked Shia]

Spiderman 2099 would destroy Peter's life.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Joker, sorry man you are wrong.

The greatest Spidey villain isn't Doc Ock. It isn't Goblin. It certainly isn't Venom. The greatest Spidey villain of all time is

Spoiler

Spoiler

Paste Pot Pete :P.

No, no, no, you're all wrong. Spider-mans greatest villain is

Spoiler

The Santa Claus Burgler

 

[Naked Shia]

One day, I will be Spider-man's greatest villain.

 

[ironwez20]

You could make any villain sound useless with that much effort towards watering down what they've done in the comics...

"Venom only did this, but GG and Ock did this!"
"Venom is style over substance, GG and Ock have tons of substance!"
"Kids like Venom because they're stupid and just like his appearance/powers."

There's no right or wrong answers, unless you want to go by comic sales. Either way, Spidey has a great lineup of villains. Fighting over which ones are better is irrelevant, especially with such biased opinions. This isn't going anywhere, just long posts of hating BS.

Pretty much. I was explaining how venom isn't a terrible villian but he really hates the character so there's nothing I can do there. I love all the villians anyway just venom is my fav.

 

[HanShotFirst]

the true anti spiderman is spiderman 2099 though. He's serious when spidey is humorous, his suit is mostly blue with some red, and he's half mexican.

Get the shock outta here! Miguel is the best Spider-man ever.

 

[ironwez20]

Nah Peter porker is..... Fact