The Amazing Spider-Man: The Game - Part 3

[UltimateWebhead]

It is a matter of ratio. 3 times in about 15 seconds. It doesn't matter if it was a short clip the ratio should remain the same. Not to mention we don't know for sure how old this footage is. Plus the game goes gold in about a month which isn't much time for heavy improvement.

If something occur 80% of the time in a minute long clip, then you can still expect it to occur 80% of the time in a full product.

There is little to no time for improvement. So, it would be better if that footage was from an earlier time in the build.


Although you are correct about the ratio of the 'barrel roll' in that clip, I wouldn't put much stock into that as a final representation of the full product. If you watch that clip again, it made sense for Spidey to do a barrel roll in those changes...but there are many other ways for Spidey to change direction and don't forget that a web rush can be interrupted with not only regular swinging but another web rush. Remember that post I made about my convo with the Gamestop fella?? He stated that at one point in the demo Spidey was web rushing towards a light pole, then mid web rush, the player hit the rush button again...Spidey grabbed the lightpole, did a twirling flip up into the air, shot out a web line and landed on the side of a bldg. From everything we've heard there could be a countless number of web rush combinations and therefore a possibility of a great multitude of combinations to his movements.


And I don't care how good a trailer is...it's not a full representation of a game. The first trailer showed nothing but Spidey fighting a giant robot. By your logic, Spidey would only be fighting robots the entire time.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Hey Pat, have you preordered this game yet?

Nah, not yet. Still waiting on that definitive footage to push me over the edge. Haven't seen it yet.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Nah, not yet. Still waiting on that definitive footage to push me over the edge. Haven't seen it yet.

E3 then?? What would be the footage that you'd call definitive?? Just curious.

I bit the bullet lol. Went into Gamestop, traded in EoT and WoS and paid in full. Once I heard you get some extra stuff in the preorders besides the playable characters I made up my mind. Plus, I'd rather play with Rhino than Stan. It sounds like Stan will mostly use the same gameplay mechanics as Spidey where as Rhino will be totally different. I think I will like that better.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

E3 then?? What would be the footage that you'd call definitive?? Just curious.

I dont know, ill tell you when i see it. There's no guarantee ill pick this up immediately. Im leaning that way, but not sold yet.

 

[Rose]

There is little to no time for improvement. So, it would be better if that footage was from an earlier time in the build.


Although you are correct about the ratio of the 'barrel roll' in that clip, I wouldn't put much stock into that as a final representation of the full product. If you watch that clip again, it made sense for Spidey to do a barrel roll in those changes...but there are many other ways for Spidey to change direction and don't forget that a web rush can be interrupted with not only regular swinging but another web rush. Remember that post I made about my convo with the Gamestop fella?? He stated that at one point in the demo Spidey was web rushing towards a light pole, then mid web rush, the player hit the rush button again...Spidey grabbed the lightpole, did a twirling flip up into the air, shot out a web line and landed on the side of a bldg. From everything we've heard there could be a countless number of web rush combinations and therefore a possibility of a great multitude of combinations to his movements.


And I don't care how good a trailer is...it's not a full representation of a game. The first trailer showed nothing but Spidey fighting a giant robot. By your logic, Spidey would only be fighting robots the entire time.

Not even close to correct. The trailer that just showed spidey fighting a giant robot would show an accurate representation of what it will be like when Spidey is fighting that robot. Just like this trailer shows an accurate representation of how web rush will work.

Footage of web rush will give a good sign of what it will be like using web rush. And that representation showed him doing the barrel roll after over half the jumps. And no not all the rolls were logical. There was absolutely no reason for Spidey to do a barrel roll when jumping off the bus. The same exact jump could have been performed with a straight jump. The only time that actually fit for the roll was going from the light post to the ledge.

Also correction. 6 in the video 4 in that one segment

First he rebounded off the wall doing spin number 1, then he landed and ran along the bus leeping off with spin number 2, then he bounced off the lamp post with spin number 3, then he landed on the ledge and leaped off it with spin number 4.

The other 2 were 26 seconds where you can see him doing that spin in slow motion and then in the clip right before the long run where he rebounds off the wall with the same barrel roll.

Literally every jump in that web rush had the exact same spin. Not only that but that same spin was from 4 different kinds of jumps. Jump from wall, jump from bus, jump from lamp post, and jump from flat ledge. All of which used the exact same animation. That kind of ratio can't be written off. If the full game has multiple different ways then why didn't he do a single different one during that clip instead doing the exact same jump every time. Even considering chance that it was coincidence that still leans to the idea that the spin will occur at least 70-80% of the time.

The pedestrians can be explained away by old build as that is something that would get added at the end of development. Web rush on the other hand is a primary mechanic for the game. There is no reason that they would not have the different motions already implemented especially if this is supposed to be demonstrating the feature.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

If something occur 80% of the time in a minute long clip, then you can still expect it to occur 80% of the time in a full product.

Um, no. Ill cut you a break since you're new, but no, not in any way is whats shown in a 1 min clip completely indicative of the full product. I can make a 1 minute clip of one stealth section from the Arkham titles and guess what, that game doesnt have you in stealth 80% of the time. Its just editing.

 

[Rose]

Um, no. Ill cut you a break since you're new, but no, not in any way is whats shown in a 1 min clip completely indicative of the full product. I can make a 1 minute clip of one stealth section from the Arkham titles and guess what, that game doesnt have you in stealth 80% of the time. Its just editing.

LEARN TO READ.

First line:

"The trailer that just showed spidey fighting a giant robot would show an accurate representation of what it will be like when Spidey is fighting that robot"

key words "accurate of what it will be like when Spidey is fighting THAT ROBOT"

Second line:

"Just like this trailer shows an accurate representation of how web rush will work"

key words "how WEB RUSH will work".

I never once said that was representative of the entire product. I am not talking about just web rush mechanic in particular. Combat, ground movement, stealth, etc are not included. Just the web rush mechanic.

And the situation in question is not editing. It is a straight shot featuring 4 jumps all of which feature the exact same barrel roll jump animation. The footage we have of web rush displays the character using the barrel roll 4 times in a row in a single web rush. Even given the chance of slight coincidence it still leans towards the idea that the character will overuse that barrel roll animation extremely frequently.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

LEARN TO READ.

First line:

"The trailer that just showed spidey fighting a giant robot would show an accurate representation of what it will be like when Spidey is fighting that robot"

key words "accurate of what it will be like when... fighting THAT ROBOT"

Second line:

"Just like this trailer shows an accurate representation of how web rush will work"

key words "how WEB RUSH will work".

I never once said that was representative of the entire product. I am not talking about just web rush mechanic in particular. Combat, ground movement, stealth, etc are not included. Just the web rush mechanic.

And the situation in question is not editing. It is a straight shot featuring 4 jumps all of which feature the exact same barrel roll jump animation. The footage we have of web rush displays the character using the barrel roll 4 times in a row in a single web rush. Even given the chance of slight coincidence it still leans towards the idea that the character will overuse that barrel roll animation extremely frequently.

Whoa noob, you telling me to learn to read? I think you need to check 'yo self before you wreck yo self' pal. In the section i quoted you on, you made NO mention of it being to one specific instance. Here, here is the full quote i used since it has obviously already popped out of your conscience:

It is a matter of ratio. 3 times in about 15 seconds. It doesn't matter if it was a short clip the ratio should remain the same. Not to mention we don't know for sure how old this footage is. Plus the game goes gold in about a month which isn't much time for heavy improvement.

If something occur 80% of the time in a minute long clip, then you can still expect it to occur 80% of the time in a full product.

Thats its buddy. Thats what i was referencing. Nothing else. Next time, pay attention before you start flipping your lid. Life will be easier around here for ya.



My whole point is you can't make an accurate judgement off a one minute clip. Period.

 

[Rose]

Whoa noob, you telling me to learn to read? I think you need to check 'yo self before you wreck yo self' pal. In the section i quoted you on, you made NO mention of it being to one specific instance. Here, here is the full quote i used since it has obviously already popped out of your conscience:




Thats its buddy. Thats what i was referencing. Nothing else. Next time, pay attention before you start flipping your lid. Life will be easier around here for ya.

Yes but if you had actually taken the time to read the entire post then you would have actually been able to comprehend what I was talking about and referencing. The entire post was clearly referencing a single mechanic not the game as a whole. The fact that you took part of my post out of context does not change the context it was stated within.

Just because you select one part does not suddenly nullify the rest of it.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Yes but if you had actually taken the time to read the entire post then you would have actually been able to comprehend what I was talking about and referencing. The fact that you took part of my post out of context does not change the context it was stated within.

I just showed you your whole post bucko.

Here, ill do it again:

It is a matter of ratio. 3 times in about 15 seconds. It doesn't matter if it was a short clip the ratio should remain the same. Not to mention we don't know for sure how old this footage is. Plus the game goes gold in about a month which isn't much time for heavy improvement.

If something occur 80% of the time in a minute long clip, then you can still expect it to occur 80% of the time in a full product.

Nothing out of context there.

Again, my point is you can't make an accurate judgement off of a 1 minute clip, regardless of what it entails. Thats it, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Rose]

I just showed you your whole post bucko.

Here, ill do it again:



Nothing out of context there.

Again, my point is you can't make an accurate judgement off of a 1 minute clip, something it seems you are struggling mightily with.

sorry I mistook the post you were responding to but you are still incorrect. The rest of the conversation that had lead up to that comment clearly displayed that I was referencing the web rush mechanic not the game as a whole.

And you can make an accurate judgment of a mechanic based on the video meant to portray it. Thats the entire point of the video. The video displaying the mechanic showed the same repeated animation on every single jump in a four jump web rush. If there was more variety it would likely have shown more variety among that string of four jumps in a row rather than repeating.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

sorry I mistook the post you were responding to but you are still incorrect. The rest of the conversation that had lead up to that comment clearly displayed that I was referencing the web rush mechanic not the game as a whole.

No, i was never incorrect to start with. My point still stands. One minute worth of gameplay isn't enough to go on. Period. We know the web rush is a context sensitive system. There just isn't enough in that video to make an accurate judgement on.

 

[Rose]

No, i was never incorrect to start with. My point still stands. One minute worth of gameplay isn't enough to go on. Period. We know the web rush is a context sensitive system. There just isn't enough in that video to make an accurate judgement on.

4 different types of jumps. 1 animation. There is plenty of context.

jump off vertical building surface leads to barrel roll

jump off bus leads to barrel roll

jump off lap post leads to barrel roll

jump off horizontal building surface leads to barrel roll

On top of that we had 2 others in the video.

Jump off skyscraper roof at 26 seconds leads to barrel roll

and a second jump off verticle surface leads to barrel roll

So in total we have 6 total jumps from 5 different situations all of which lead to the exact same animation. Even if that is somewhat coincidence it still shows the animation to be overly frequent.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

And you can make an accurate judgment of a mechanic based on the video meant to portray it. Thats the entire point of the video. The video displaying the mechanic showed the same repeated animation on every single jump in a four jump web rush. If there was more variety it would likely have shown more variety among that string of four jumps in a row rather than repeating.

Wrong. It was ONE instance of the mechanic. We know the mechanic is context sensitive and we saw ONE instance of that. We basically saw the same, singular context in that whole video, Spidey covering large amounts of ground. We didn't get to see much in between. Maybe you're right, maybe that roll shows up in damn near every instance of Spidey performing the web rush, but, yet again, you can not make an accurate claim for the case with only a min long video. I dont know how many more times i can say that.

 

[Rose]

Wrong. It was ONE instance of the mechanic. We know the mechanic is context sensitive and we saw ONE instance of that. We basically saw the same, singular context in that whole video, Spidey covering large amounts of ground. We didn't get to see much in between. Maybe you're right, maybe that roll shows up in every instance of Spidey performing the web rush, but, yet again, you can not make an accurate claim for the case with only a min long video. I dont know how many more times i can say that.

6 instances of a mechanic.

2 jumps from vertical building surface

1 jump from bus

1 jump from horizontal building surface

1 jump from lamp post

1 jump from top of a skyscraper

2+1+1+1+1=6

and 4 of those were in one continuous shot in a row.

So out of 6 jumps we have 1 animation. That is 100%. Even providing coincidence that number is not going to change drastically.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Not even close to correct. The trailer that just showed spidey fighting a giant robot would show an accurate representation of what it will be like when Spidey is fighting that robot. Just like this trailer shows an accurate representation of how web rush will work..

Um, no. Firstly, the robot trailer didn't show an entire fight with a robot, it was a very short clip of him swinging in, dodging a laser or two, then ripping out a component of the robot and throwing it away. It was highly edited and was drawn up more for dramatic influence rather than an actual uncut representation of gameplay. The trailer only showed Spidey fighting a robot much like the web rush trailer only shows Spidey doing web rush manuevers...again, by your logic, that would mean all you do is fight robots the entire game. The web rush trailer was again, short clips of gameplay strewn together for dramatic effect. We got a good look at some of the animations but in no way is this an accurate representation of the web rush. There are many other ways to use the web rush and use it in various combos. Had someone showed me an uncut gameplay video with say a full few minutes of web rush gameplay, that would be an accurate representation.

Footage of web rush will give a good sign of what it will be like using web rush. And that representation showed him doing the barrel roll after over half the jumps. And no not all the rolls were logical. There was absolutely no reason for Spidey to do a barrel roll when jumping off the bus..

How do you know they weren't logical? Spidey is one of the most agile characters in comics...he could certainly pull off just about any move he wished. For all we know the barrel rolls have something to do with pushing on the left analog stick in a certain direction while hitting the web rush button. Maybe the guy playing the game for that footage was fond of barrel rolls. Who knows? Point is, the controls for the game have not been clearly identified other than that picture of the mapout of them...the control mechanics themselves may be more integrated.

First he rebounded off the wall doing spin number 1, then he landed and ran along the bus leeping off with spin number 2, then he bounced off the lamp post with spin number 3, then he landed on the ledge and leaped off it with spin number 4..

That's quite a bit of digging for something you consider a minor issue. Again though, it's a very short look into a gameplay mechanic that is used throughout the entire game. It's not an accurate representation because it still does not show the gameplay in an unedited fashion over a significant timeline.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

6 instances of a mechanic.

2 jumps from vertical building surface

1 jump from bus

1 jump from horizontal building surface

1 jump from lamp post

1 jump from top of a skyscraper

2+1+1+1+1=6

and 4 of those were in one continuous shot in a row.

So out of 6 jumps we have 1 animation. That is 100%. Even providing coincidence that number is not going to change drastically.

And all of those leaps have the same thing in common, it has spidey covering a large distance. What about a short leap to a pole, then to the side of a building? What about a leap from the floor, to the wall to the ceiling? Thats all web rush and we didn't see anything like that in the video. Again, you can't base everything off of a one minute clip.

If anything, the best argument you have is the barrel roll shows up too frequently when spidey is quickly covering large distances. In that case, i agree, but its such a small section of the mechanic that it doesnt really matter.

 

[Rose]

Um, no. Firstly, the robot trailer didn't show an entire fight with a robot, it was a very short clip of him swinging in, dodging a laser or two, then ripping out a component of the robot and throwing it away. It was highly edited and was drawn up more for dramatic influence rather than an actual uncut representation of gameplay. The trailer only showed Spidey fighting a robot much like the web rush trailer only shows Spidey doing web rush manuevers...again, by your logic, that would mean all you do is fight robots the entire game. The web rush trailer was again, short clips of gameplay strewn together for dramatic effect. We got a good look at some of the animations but in no way is this an accurate representation of the web rush. There are many other ways to use the web rush and use it in various combos. Had someone showed me an uncut gameplay video with say a full few minutes of web rush gameplay, that would be an accurate representation.



How do you know they weren't logical? Spidey is one of the most agile characters in comics...he could certainly pull off just about any move he wished. For all we know the barrel rolls have something to do with pushing on the left analog stick in a certain direction while hitting the web rush button. Maybe the guy playing the game for that footage was fond of barrel rolls. Who knows? Point is, the controls for the game have not been clearly identified other than that picture of the mapout of them...the control mechanics themselves may be more integrated.



That's quite a bit of digging for something you consider a minor issue. Again though, it's a very short look into a gameplay mechanic that is used throughout the entire game. It's not an accurate representation because it still does not show the gameplay in an unedited fashion over a significant timeline.

I know they weren't logical because it is a useless movement. There is nothing that the spin achieves that a straight jump would not achieve.

It is an accurate representation because it reveals the ratio.

If they had 4 different jump off animations then the chance of the barrel roll animation occurring would be 25%. The chances of that happening 4 times in a row are slim.

If there are more than 5 then the chances of that animation occuring 4 times in a row is even lower.

The only way that the chance would be realistic to end up with the same animation 4 times in a row on a single shot is if there were 2 or less jump off animations. Sure there is the chance that it could still get 4 in a row but that chance is extremely slim. This is basic probability.

 

[Rose]

And all of those leaps have the same thing in common, it has spidey covering a large distance. What about a short leap to a pole, then to the side of a building? What about a leap from the floor, to the wall to the ceiling? Thats all web rush and we didn't see anything like that in the video. Again, you can't base everything off of a one minute clip.

If anything, the best argument you have is the barrel roll shows up too frequently when spidey is quickly covering large distances. In that case, i agree, but its such a small section of the mechanic that it doesnt really matter.

the last jump from horizontal surface was a short jump heading for another lamp post. The jump from lamp post to that horizontal surface wasn't far either.

And yes it is a small mechanic which is why i stated before it is a minor issue. But it is still an issue none the less. Seeing the same animation to often takes away from the feeling of it being natural and causes it to feel canned.

 

[Rose]

also in the case that there is at least 4 different jump off animations the chance of 1 animation occuring 4 times in a row is 1/256 or .3%. If there are just 2 animations the chance is 6% of one particular animation occurring 4 times in a row. If the number of animations increase the percentage drops.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Jesus, Captain Pedantic called, he wants his pants back.

 

[20glyphs]

The barrel roll jump has been shown in just about every trailer so far, so you're probably going to see it a lot in the game. Someone in charge obviously liked it a lot and wanted it used to add some flash to the jump animations.

And the crowds in the street are probably what they will be in the final game. You're just not going to be able to render large crowds with their own AI in an open world game with 50+ story buildings and a character that can move at the crazy speed that Spider-Man can on this generation with the resources that Activision puts into a Spider-Man game. Beenox seems to be growing and trying hard, but they just don't have the man hours or the money of a company like Ubisoft, who can afford to create an engine for Assassin's Creed 3 that renders huge crowds and spend years getting the technical details right.

I play Spider-Man games to web swing and jump around Manhattan in a fast, fluid and fun manner. If the crowd life at street level, where I don't spend much time standing still, is a little thin that's a trade-off I'd take every time. I'm sorry if either of these issues bothers someone enough to not get the game, but they are likely issues the final game will have. I'm counting on the rest of the game being fun and providing the entertainment I'm looking for. I still look at Arkham City and see a game that's not as big and grand as some people think, and doesn't even have that big of an open world with an interesting map to roam in, but is still a blast because the things the game focuses on it does so well. Hopefully TASM will get the big things that it's focusing on really right.

 

[zenith16]

The Amazing Spider-Man


Exclusive Web Rush Trailer - See The Amazing Spider-Man utilize a powerful tool in his crime fighting arsenal.

​

Posted 9 mins ago

source: GT

damn too late oh well at least most peep's won't have to go a page over any more. hehe

 

[Rose]

The barrel roll jump has been shown in just about every trailer so far, so you're probably going to see it a lot in the game. Someone in charge obviously liked it a lot and wanted it used to add some flash to the jump animations.

And the crowds in the street are probably what they will be in the final game. You're just not going to be able to render large crowds with their own AI in an open world game with 50+ story buildings and a character that can move at the crazy speed that Spider-Man can on this generation with the resources that Activision puts into a Spider-Man game. Beenox seems to be growing and trying hard, but they just don't have the man hours or the money of a company like Ubisoft, who can afford to create an engine for Assassin's Creed 3 that renders huge crowds and spend years getting the technical details right.

I play Spider-Man games to web swing and jump around Manhattan in a fast, fluid and fun manner. If the crowd life at street level, where I don't spend much time standing still, is a little thin that's a trade-off I'd take every time. I'm sorry if either of these issues bothers someone enough to not get the game, but they are likely issues the final game will have. I'm counting on the rest of the game being fun and providing the entertainment I'm looking for. I still look at Arkham City and see a game that's not as big and grand as some people think, and doesn't even have that big of an open world with an interesting map to roam in, but is still a blast because the things the game focuses on it does so well. Hopefully TASM will get the big things that it's focusing on really right.

Prototype. It wasn't huge budget like Assassins creed but streets were jam packed and the game still ran well with a lot more chaos going on that this game is ever likely to reach. This game doesn't even need to have that. A quarter of that crowd would be fine and would be perfectly possible for them to implement.

Hopefully the crowds and traffic were toned down for demonstration purposes.

 

[OrbWeaver]

Guys -- you could argue semantics all day long. The fact of the matter is, it's all just speculation at this point. While it does seem odd that the folks at Beenox/Activision are choosing to show us footage that appears repetitive, there's no way for any of us to calculate or otherwise know how this translates into actual gameplay. Hopefully, we'll know more after E3.

The web rush does look pretty cool, but I'd still like to see some uncut gameplay before I'm fully sold on this game.