The Atheism Thread - Part 5

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A true scientist and scholar knows how to come at it from ALL viewpoints. You don't have to believe it insanely, but you should be able to get where the other guy is coming from.
 
terry78 said:
A true scientist and scholar knows how to come at it from ALL viewpoints. You don't have to believe it insanely, but you should be able to get where the other guy is coming from.
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Actually, scientists are supposed to methodologically disregard the role of supernatural elements or that of a creator, whether they believe it or not.
 
Yeah, that's the way it's always been done, but it doesn't make it the best way, as we all can attest.
 
Thundercrack85 said:
Not really. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of the smartest people on the planet are atheists. Or at least, the top scientists.

Though I do think there should be two categories of atheists, people who simply have no religion (which could simply be the result of not being indoctrinated), and those who knowingly reject religion.

It takes a lot of thinking to become an atheist, in a religious society.
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As someone who went to a private Christian elementary school, I know all too well about indoctrination. Questions were discouraged, you just accepted it because.

There's a reason why I keep my atheism in check whenever I go back to visit my family in southern California, if they had any knowledge about it, all I would hear about it how they're "praying for me." Or that I will eventually "come around."
Marvolo said:
Regarding policy makers, I'm with you 100%. An individual's spirituality should never dictate the lives of others unless those others want it to. I'm getting sick of radical Christians In this country trying to tell everyone how they should live. Some of the most annoying people I've ever known. Just hen pecking at every damn thing.
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So much this! :up:
As someone who lives in Texas, I can't even begin to describe the amount of politicians who fall into this camp. And the recent abortion fiasco just points to this. Why do a bunch of cis-gendered middle-aged white heterosexual Christian MEN get to decide what a woman does with her buddy? Because their religion tells them to go forth and multiply. That's not pro-life, that's pro-birth in the effort to make sure the ranks never dwindle.

Keep your damn Bible out of my politics.
 
zeroapoc said:
I'm sorry but it's going to take more than elegant equations for me to buy in 100%. Observation and detection is totally necessary to bring me to that point.

Otherwise it's just "faith" in the math. Exactly why I used that term earlier. The fact the math is sound, or at least workable, doesn't mean the theory is reality. You're choosing to believe it to be so, which yes, is a leap of faith. Religion isn't the only area where this thought process can apply. It can most certainly be found in the sciences. Particularly when statements are used such as "it doesn't have to be observed".

We have absolutely no tangible proof of higher dimensions. Without this proof stating their existence as fact is simply belief.

We ask this proof of theists when they talk of God. I see no reason why proponents of M-Theory should not be held to the same standard. The fact it's a "math based science" does not exclude it from the burden of evidence.
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Actually I don't "believe" in M-theory. I simply accept the fact that it is supported by math as are other unobservable, but provable scientific theories. It functions within the current mathematically sound quantum physics model. In physics workable math is considered evidence. Math as they say is a universal language. Math is a tool like a telescope or spectrometer or a seismograph etc. Granted unless you are a physicist or hold a degree in advanced mathematics one may be disinclined to take the math as evidence or proof, but math is used every day by physicist to observe/prove the laws of the universe. Now we shouldn't just stop searching for more evidence and answers, but given our technological state in many areas of physics we are not capable of gathering other evidence. With math tho we really don't have to build a workable model and other theories around M-theory.

There is a layman misconception that physics is a science of physical experiments. It isn't least not 90% of it. A lot of it is equations. It relies heavily on math. And these theories aren't in a vacuum. They all have to line up and function as a whole. M-theory fits in with other observable physics. Its more than just a daydream.

Skepticism is always good tho. Good science needs a dose of accountability and skepticism.

PS: If you're interested in this stuff a good physicist to read is Brian Greene. The man can take complicated physics and boil them down to layman speak without watering it down or dumbing it down. He always puts the equations in the notes for the more mathematically inclined and leaves them out of the main text instead explaining the math with real world examples. Its cool stuff if you're into it.
 
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newwaveboy87 said:
So much this! :up:
As someone who lives in Texas, I can't even begin to describe the amount of politicians who fall into this camp. And the recent abortion fiasco just points to this. Why do a bunch of cis-gendered middle-aged white heterosexual Christian MEN get to decide what a woman does with her buddy? Because their religion tells them to go forth and multiply. That's not pro-life, that's pro-birth in the effort to make sure the ranks never dwindle.

Keep your damn Bible out of my politics.
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It's insane to me, but George Carlin sums it up perfectly...

"Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're f**ked." -George Carlin
 
Hal_Jordan said:
It's insane to me, but George Carlin sums it up perfectly...

"Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're f**ked." -George Carlin
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He had many brilliant quotes. Some of his ones about the absurdity of religion are just... almost unfunny because they're so accurate. Ya know?
 
Right there with you. I've never encountered a religious or spiritual notion that could even hold a candle to the awe I feel just looking up at the stars. As I get older, that awe and wonder only deepens.
 
Kind of funny, since pettiness is what drove me away from religion.

Being the end result of countless processes, over billions of years, gives me much more awe than being made in the image of a rather obviously manmade god.

Oh well, Orpah is entitled to her beliefs.
 
Carl Sagan - A Universe Not Made For Us
[YT]e8P1Y1a7-L4[/YT]
Carl Sagan on religion and geocentrism.
 
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Marvolo said:
I didn't like Oprah before, and I really don't like her now. What a narrow minded individual. *smh*
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Nyad had the chance to set Winfrey straight. But then Nyad, herself, gets a bit wishy-washy and starts to describe sunsets and a sense of awe as “god.” At which point, clear meaning goes out the window. If you equate “god” with sunsets, then there’s nothing much to debate. Obviously, sunsets exist. :word:
 
I was trying to have a conversation earlier with my sister-in-law, who loves to consider herself catholic, and I, as a former go-hard Christian, and I was trying to explain why I stay away from religion in general altogether at this point in my life. To be honest, even after I left my church three years ago, I've never really considered myself an atheist, but at the same time, I don't feel compelled to follow any one set god or religion.
 
Ask Raptor Jesus
[YT]Tbo8SNTNsQQ[/YT]
Only those with the freshest, most succulent livers will be saved...
 
I sometimes debate with my friend about his faith. But I decided not to be too hard on him, even though I find his beliefs silly. See he has schizophrenia, and faith in god have kept him as stable as he is now. Because he has this delusion, that he is cursed or that there is some evil spirit in him. Or at least was, but now that he has read the bible, he read some passage saying that god protects you from evil spells and such.
So this belief and feeling of being in gods grace keeps him from succumbing to that fear of being cursed. At least so far...
I of course feel that if he didn't believe in that nonsense all together, he wouldn't believe in hell and satan and therefor he wouldn't believe that you can be cursed. But he says that because of his faith he is not in the hospital anymore. And that may very well be true. Faith can have a placebo effect I guess.
It's just that I think he is starting to believe that creationist ******** also...
 
SpideyVille said:
I was trying to have a conversation earlier with my sister-in-law, who loves to consider herself catholic, and I, as a former go-hard Christian, and I was trying to explain why I stay away from religion in general altogether at this point in my life. To be honest, even after I left my church three years ago, I've never really considered myself an atheist, but at the same time, I don't feel compelled to follow any one set god or religion.
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I'm pretty much the same way.
 
Anyone ever hear the song God Thinks by Voltaire? I'm pretty sure it has a bit of cursing so I can't link it but it's basically giving the differing viewpoints of different religions using gods name for their own purposes.
 
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