The Atheism Thread - Part 6

[Superwoman Prime]

So everything is supposed to live forever? I think your getting my "divine plan" mixed up with the traditional Christian one.I think that there had to be something helping civilization and our own species survive. Whether that was an "ancient aliens" angle or whatever. I think it's more mathematical than a blind faith reasoning. I think there has to be "maker" weather that is the earth itself that created us or something I do not know. I just think that there was a something that "created" life that is beyond comprehension.

If by "miracle" you mean "luck", and if by "luck" you mean "chance", then yes. It's remarkable we're still alive, but at the same time. . . not really. Statistics. Someone had to luck out at some point, in some form or another. Earth sustains life and has for a long time.

We won the lottery. For us, that's awesome. Everyone else kinda lost. As in, died. Or are meandering along as dumb, instinct-driven things.

And we're uncomfortably close to the last bunch there. This was a lottery that only receives coverage on public access.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Humanity might go on to become the "ancient aliens". It's our responsibility to colonize other planets and spread intelligent life throughout the cosmos. All evidence points to that as the Shyamalan-level twist to our existence.

 

[KevanG]

Or we could be the Ancient Jerk Aliens and go around and smack the crap out of them after raising them up.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Humanity might go on to become the "ancient aliens". It's our responsibility to colonize other planets and spread intelligent life throughout the cosmos.

Is this sarcasm or condescension?

 

[Hal_Jordan]

Humanity might go on to become the "ancient aliens". It's our responsibility to colonize other planets and spread intelligent life throughout the cosmos. All evidence points to that as the Shyamalan-level twist to our existence.

I thought the Shyamalan twist was that aliens have already had a hand in our evolution and helped build the pyramids and stuff.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Is this sarcasm or condescension?

Neither, sir.

 

[moviedoors]

Humanity might go on to become the "ancient aliens". It's our responsibility to colonize other planets and spread intelligent life throughout the cosmos. All evidence points to that as the Shyamalan-level twist to our existence.

Yup. Our survival as a species literally depends upon it.

 

[moviedoors]

Everything just can't be by chance.

Sure it can.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Everything just can't be by chance. Our survival and flourishing on this planet is to asinine given how stupid humans are. The fact that we've survived this far is a miracle to say the least.

Considering millions of humans starve to death, and every year, millions are killed by natural disasters... it is, and it isn't.

Count yourself fortunate.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Sure it can.

Even Evolution is for a purpose and there is a natural symmetry. So I can't think that there is not that for our existence. But I digress.

Considering millions of humans starve to death, and every year, millions are killed by natural disasters... it is, and it isn't.

Count yourself fortunate.

I do. You should too.

Suffering is not the absence of happiness though. Some of the most "suffering" people I know tend to be the most genuine and unassuming. Perspective is key.

Neither, sir.

Gotcha.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Everything just can't be by chance. Our survival and flourishing on this planet is to asinine given how stupid humans are. The fact that we've survived this far is a miracle to say the least.

Considering millions of humans starve to death, and every year, millions are killed by natural disasters... it is, and it isn't.

Count yourself fortunate.

 

[moviedoors]

Even Evolution is for a purpose and there is a natural symmetry.

No, there isn't. Evolution is a cruel mistress. It's not so much a purpose as it is a stumbling towards what works. You give it more human-centric, egocentric motivation than it deserves. There is no "purpose" to evolution. It's simply a process by which most everything that has ever lived goes extinct and the very, very few appropriately adapted species live on, most likely to die, but maybe, to clear the next hurdle. There's no purpose. No purpose is needed, just the right mutation within the right context. If the world becomes covered in liquid water, we die, and in a few million years, an aquatically based life might emerge as the top dog. Or not.

The moral: you are not special.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Projecting inherent "purpose" or "meaning" into life or evolution is like searching for smell in color.

Synesthesia does exist, but is a delusion constructed by the brain. It's a wonderful analogy for religion and spirituality in general.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Oh I don't know if I would say that we aren't special.

Humanity is an unusual species.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

^ Quote. Or '^', '@', something, gee.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The idea that there might be another species like us out there, is both fascinating and terrifying.

Let's just hope that time tempers our vicious behavior.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Oh I don't know if I would say that we aren't special.

Humanity is an unusual species.

Agreed.

The idea that there might be another species like us out there, is both fascinating and terrifying.

Let's just hope that time tempers our vicious behavior.

Agreed.

 

[KevanG]

I'd say we are a unique species to the planet, beyond others that came before.

We took our tool using abilities, which is fairly rare with most species on earth and took it to an unheard of level. We took over the planet and have the capability to save ourselves or destroy ourselves in the same breath. If we really want to we could go off planet and live out in space. There's not a single other species on the planet that could come close to what we had made 5000 years ago, never mind now.

We changed because we wanted to. It took time but we forced ourselves as a species to keep going in the directions we wanted to. Where other species had to adapt to changes in environment or were forced to move or die, we built things to let us live, or at least move around in, in the most inhospitable places on earth.

We are one weird species. We can all these amazing things but we demand that the best use of our time for millennia is killing each other over imaginary concepts.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Yes once we get out of the solar system... there goes the neighborhood.

No seriously though, we are a very interesting species that way, with the advanced technologies, but the primitive thinking (we overpopulate, pollute, kill for nonsensical reasons, etc).

I think part of that is our inherited nature, and also the fact that the species is effectively "carried" by a tiny intelligent minority.

The masses love the perks of technology, but they rarely listen to the scientific groups going on about global warming.

 

[Marvolo]

I'd say we are a unique species to the planet, beyond others that came before.

We took our tool using abilities, which is fairly rare with most species on earth and took it to an unheard of level. We took over the planet and have the capability to save ourselves or destroy ourselves in the same breath. If we really want to we could go off planet and live out in space. There's not a single other species on the planet that could come close to what we had made 5000 years ago, never mind now.

We changed because we wanted to. It took time but we forced ourselves as a species to keep going in the directions we wanted to. Where other species had to adapt to changes in environment or were forced to move or die, we built things to let us live, or at least move around in, in the most inhospitable places on earth.

We are one weird species. We can all these amazing things but we demand that the best use of our time for millennia is killing each other over imaginary concepts.

Very well said. Tho the biggest drive for conflict among our species is resources. That's not going to change with an increasing population and limited space and agricultural output. It's only going to get worse before it gets better. Despite this tho our minds are pretty amazing. I'm listening to Hans Zimmer's score for King Arthur and it's something like that that makes us special. Look at our ability to create art. Our music, especially our orchestral compositions, our architecture, our paintings and drawings, our ability to marvel and be curious about the universe- all of that stuff makes us unique. We have done a lot of amazing things in a very short amount of time. Probably not as amazing as some of the things I'm sure probable alien civilizations have done but for a bunch of naked apes I think we are doing pretty great. Just gotta look past the bad that's thrown in our faces daily and see the silver lining.

 

[Feenix]

There are so many things wrong with your post it's hard to know where to start.

Given that you assume atheists are "rebelling" against a Creator shows your ignorance of us. You can't rebel against someone you don't think even exists.

Also, that you say macro evolution is a made up concept by man shows you know next to nothing about evolution.

Your post is so arrogant, and I think the irony of what you said is lost on you.

 

[Thundercrack85]

IMO, it's a lack of knowledge and or refusal of the same which fuels the engines of atheism.

Long long ago some people refused to accept the Creator's Word due to the parameters for life that were established by the Creator Himself. Those desiring to live outside the Creator's Word refused the wisdom and knowledge from the Creator and decided to make unto themselves "gods" and parameters for life to live under.

This inital refusal to accept the Creator's Word by some then began the errant teachings within a HUGE learning gap in the area of wisdom, morals, and intelligence. Simply put, if your father refused to learn how to drive, then he could not adequately teach you how to drive.

Interestingly, most all atheistic evos (i.e., evolutionists) I personally know also hold to at least some of the commandments established by the Creator, and they do so even though they cannot explain how these morals came to be "the right thing to do" under their own perceived evolutionary concepts, doctrines, and tenets. They know right from wrong, but pick and choose what right and wrong as well.

For instance, decades ago a cannibal was asked by a missionary if killing and eating the flesh of a member from a different tribe was okay to do, the cannibal said yes, however, when ask if it would be wrong for one of his grown, adult children to be killed and eaten by another cannibal tribe, he said no.

I find the duality and convoluted logic found and or utilized in atheism fascinating on an intellectual level, but on a natural level I find it is just so much selfishness, taken to the Nth degree, expressed through personal rebellion and defiance against the Creator. Some atheists, who merely lack knowledge, also see the dichotomy when it is pointed out; however, other atheists, whom purposely refuse or reject knowledge, refuse to accept the duality of their own faith's paradigm and invent foolish things like macro-evolution, which is in reality just another false god made up from the mind of man, in order to justify their personal rebellion and defiance against the Creator.

Lastly, I long for the day when some atheist will simply be honest with me and advise they have CHOSEN to reject the Creator's Word instead of hide behind impossible leaps of faith as far as an alternative to a Creator.

-PW

What color is the sky in your world?

 

[Feenix]

Your decision to respond after cognitively omitting roughly 50% of my statements as well as creating several nice fallacies (e.g., strawman arguments) with regards to what I actually said in my post is not a tactic I will oblige with an answer.

On the other hand, if you'd like to honestly discuss our respective views, I am willing to do so, however, if you continue to insist on making false assertions with regards to what I state/post, then we will continue to have zero basis for continuing this discussion further.

Your choice.

Buddy, you come into this thread making the most ridiculous and inaccurate assertions and then accuse me of doing it?

There can't be any discussion with someone who so arrogantly assumes that atheists are rebelling against their specific god

Tell me, given your username, did you come to this forum to discuss superheroes and comics or to preach?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Seriously that is the strangest diatribe I have ever read.

Please, another. That was awesome.

 

[KevanG]

Okily-dokily, let's have a response to this then.

IMO, it's a lack of knowledge and or refusal of the same which fuels the engines of atheism.

It's more a difference in ideals and preference of other information as opposed to following what you deem to be correct.

Long long ago some people refused to accept the Creator's Word due to the parameters for life that were established by the Creator Himself. Those desiring to live outside the Creator's Word refused the wisdom and knowledge from the Creator and decided to make unto themselves "gods" and parameters for life to live under.

This initial refusal to accept the Creator's Word by some then began the errant teachings within a HUGE learning gap in the area of wisdom, morals, and intelligence. Simply put, if your father refused to learn how to drive, then he could not adequately teach you how to drive.

Interestingly, most all atheistic evos (i.e., evolutionists) I personally know also hold to at least some of the commandments established by the Creator, and they do so even though they cannot explain how these morals came to be "the right thing to do" under their own perceived evolutionary concepts, doctrines, and tenets. They know right from wrong, but pick and choose what right and wrong as well.

Most athiests don't consider themselves gods at all, the few who do are usually considered crazy by everyone. As for the rest, basic societial rules have been shown that world wide over thousands of years, even before various religions sprang up, there are certain things that are considered proper and improper within those boundries. Not following a certain method of teaching doesn't make you smarter, dumber or in anyway different in 'wisdom, morals, and intelligence' than anyone else. It boils down to a difference of information in your life. What you believe is different than others and frankly, it's insulting that you're telling people that they are defiecent in almost every way due to having a different view on life and belief structure.

I find the duality and convoluted logic found and or utilized in atheism fascinating on an intellectual level, but on a natural level I find it is just so much selfishness, taken to the Nth degree, expressed through personal rebellion and defiance against the Creator. Some atheists, who merely lack knowledge, also see the dichotomy when it is pointed out; however, other atheists, whom purposely refuse or reject knowledge, refuse to accept the duality of their own faith's paradigm and invent foolish things like macro-evolution, which is in reality just another false god made up from the mind of man, in order to justify their personal rebellion and defiance against the Creator.

Lastly, I long for the day when some atheist will simply be honest with me and advise they have CHOSEN to reject the Creator's Word instead of hide behind impossible leaps of faith as far as an alternative to a Creator.

And finally, this.

I don't see how one can be defiant against something that they don't believe exists. It's like yelling at the Sun for being too bright. It's nonsensical and just strange. I've never really understood how anyone could state Macro evolution was a complete falsehood when there are literally thousands of fossil records that show a gradual progression over thousands of years in both body shaping and societal changing, charting out evolution from basic cave dwelling to our current society. Usually when confronted with such information it tends to be ignored or considered a blatant fabrication. I'm curious where you stand on that as if you wanted to get information on it there are many many resources to back it up, including an episode of Futurama which basically detailed evolution of our species using actual fossil evidence. I don't see it as any more impossible as a creator being existing than anything else that might have happened.

Personally I don't consider myself an atheist but I feel that there isn't enough information either way to state a perfect solid case to sway me one way or another.