The Atheism Thread - Part 6

[Shikamaru]

Ouch. There are so many things wrong in that post that I don't even know where to begin.

First, morals do not come from Christianity. Much like our physiology, morals were constructed through an evolutionary process. They come from human rationality and history. We've seen through trial-and-error what works and what doesn't work.

Furthermore, the same set of morals you claim to have been "bestowed to humanity by God" and "adopted by atheists" have been found present in cultures prior to the establishment of the Judeo-Christian faiths as well as in cultures today that were in no way influenced by any Abrahamic religion. Christianity merely adopted those morals and claimed them as its own, when that is not the case.

The statement that atheists "pick and choose their morals" is an incredibly ironic one given all the aspects of the Bible that are ignored by the majority of Christians in today's world. Heck, you yourself are evidence of morals not coming from religion, whether you know it or not. Presumably you don't condone rape, slavery, or stone your neighbour simply because he works on the Sabbath despite the Bible displaying all of these things as facts. This is because your own morality is telling you these things are wrong, despite your holy text itself saying otherwise.

Lastly, atheists don't and can't "rebel" against your deity because they don't believe in any deity. An atheist can't rebel against a God any more than they can rebel against a Marvel or DC character.

As a side note, here is a public lecture given by Sam Harris explaining the correlation between science and morality. I recommend you watch it:
[YT]Mm2Jrr0tRXk[/YT]

 

[childeroland]

IMO, it's a lack of knowledge and or refusal of the same which fuels the engines of atheism.

Lack of or refusal of knowledge of which god? On what is this knowledge based? They can't all be right.

Long long ago some people refused to accept the Creator's Word due to the parameters for life that were established by the Creator Himself. Those desiring to live outside the Creator's Word refused the wisdom and knowledge from the Creator and decided to make unto themselves "gods" and parameters for life to live under.

What basis do we have for this Creator's existence, let alone his word, wisdom, knowledge, and the parameters for life that he supposedly established?

This inital refusal to accept the Creator's Word by some then began the errant teachings within a HUGE learning gap in the area of wisdom, morals, and intelligence. Simply put, if your father refused to learn how to drive, then he could not adequately teach you how to drive.

On what basis are we supposed to accept that these supposedly anti-Creator teachings are errant?

Interestingly, most all atheistic evos (i.e., evolutionists) I personally know also hold to at least some of the commandments established by the Creator, and they do so even though they cannot explain how these morals came to be "the right thing to do" under their own perceived evolutionary concepts, doctrines, and tenets. They know right from wrong, but pick and choose what right and wrong as well.

Many religions (including pre-Christian ones) as well as pre-Christian nonbelievers upheld moral views, so how is this Creator the basis for them?

For instance, decades ago a cannibal was asked by a missionary if killing and eating the flesh of a member from a different tribe was okay to do, the cannibal said yes, however, when ask if it would be wrong for one of his grown, adult children to be killed and eaten by another cannibal tribe, he said no.

But since this Creator presumably thinks cannibalism is wrong anyway, whether of family members or strangers, how is this Creator responsible for this cannibal's "morality"?

I find the duality and convoluted logic found and or utilized in atheism fascinating on an intellectual level, but on a natural level I find it is just so much selfishness, taken to the Nth degree, expressed through personal rebellion and defiance against the Creator. Some atheists, who merely lack knowledge, also see the dichotomy when it is pointed out; however, other atheists, whom purposely refuse or reject knowledge, refuse to accept the duality of their own faith's paradigm and invent foolish things like macro-evolution, which is in reality just another false god made up from the mind of man, in order to justify their personal rebellion and defiance against the Creator.

What duality is that, exactly? Where is this "knowledge" that atheists are refusing, and on what is it based?

Lastly, I long for the day when some atheist will simply be honest with me and advise they have CHOSEN to reject the Creator's Word instead of hide behind impossible leaps of faith as far as an alternative to a Creator.

On what basis is not believing in something not proven an impossible leap of faith while the Creator's Word is not?

 

[Feenix]

Irony. Look up the definiton. You might learn something.

 

[Marvolo]

In your world, someone having an opinion that's either different, or opposed to yours is being arrogant. Gotcha. Thanks for the insight. We're done.

Uh no we are not. You came into this thread posting arrogant and incorrect assumptions about atheists and haven't gotten multiple well written and polite rebuttals. Respond to them.

Also, about your creator, there are nearly thousands of recorded deities that have been worshiped throughout human history. That's not including the ones we have yet to discover and the ones that predate the invention of the written word. So which one is your creator, and why is that particular one more likely to exist than the other thousands? The burden of proof is on you. And I'm looking for unbiased evidence.

 

[regwec]

IMO, it's a lack of knowledge and or refusal of the same which fuels the engines of atheism.

Long long ago some people refused to accept the Creator's Word due to the parameters for life that were established by the Creator Himself. Those desiring to live outside the Creator's Word refused the wisdom and knowledge from the Creator and decided to make unto themselves "gods" and parameters for life to live under.

This inital refusal to accept the Creator's Word by some then began the errant teachings within a HUGE learning gap in the area of wisdom, morals, and intelligence. Simply put, if your father refused to learn how to drive, then he could not adequately teach you how to drive.

Interestingly, most all atheistic evos (i.e., evolutionists) I personally know also hold to at least some of the commandments established by the Creator, and they do so even though they cannot explain how these morals came to be "the right thing to do" under their own perceived evolutionary concepts, doctrines, and tenets. They know right from wrong, but pick and choose what right and wrong as well.

For instance, decades ago a cannibal was asked by a missionary if killing and eating the flesh of a member from a different tribe was okay to do, the cannibal said yes, however, when ask if it would be wrong for one of his grown, adult children to be killed and eaten by another cannibal tribe, he said no.

I find the duality and convoluted logic found and or utilized in atheism fascinating on an intellectual level, but on a natural level I find it is just so much selfishness, taken to the Nth degree, expressed through personal rebellion and defiance against the Creator. Some atheists, who merely lack knowledge, also see the dichotomy when it is pointed out; however, other atheists, whom purposely refuse or reject knowledge, refuse to accept the duality of their own faith's paradigm and invent foolish things like macro-evolution, which is in reality just another false god made up from the mind of man, in order to justify their personal rebellion and defiance against the Creator.

Lastly, I long for the day when some atheist will simply be honest with me and advise they have CHOSEN to reject the Creator's Word instead of hide behind impossible leaps of faith as far as an alternative to a Creator.

-PW

Creepy.

 

[KevanG]

Think he's coming back?

 

[Marvolo]

Think he's coming back?

Probably not. That post of his points to an unchallenged and closed off mind. His thoughts on atheists are so ass-backwards that I'm not sure we could have much of a conversation with him.

 

[KevanG]

I usually don't get any rebuttals when I post on things like this. It's like winning by forfeit when the other side gets locked in the bathroom.

 

[Shikamaru]

Maybe he is watching my linked video.

 

[SpideyVille]

It's mindsets like that that are the real cause for so much negative feelings towards each other. I've come to learn that the worst thing that you can do is try to go through life with such a closed mind, especially when you don't even make an attempt to understand the counter arguments that others may have. We don't always need to agree with each other, but we should always strive to respect each other's opinions.

 

[regwec]

I don't think anybody's opinion merits respect if it is both dogmatic and wrong.

Deluded people should be confronted and challenged, to prevent them living in ignorance or, worse, impressing their malign influence on innocent children.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The sky in my world doesn't have any color per se, the colonial blue hue on sunny days is merely the atmospheric water vapor bending the rays from the sun through a prism effect. More clearly (pun intended) discerned at night, although the sky is not black, is the lack of light BEHIND the sky which appears as blackness to us on the earth. We can see stars, but then again, the sky is not speckled colored either. Simply put, the sky is my world is clear as air.

Can we get back on topic now? You see, I persued the entire 6 parts to this thread prior to posting. I also quoted the original post above my post as well. I am willing to discuss this issue RATIONALLY as the OP both stated and intended. Are you?

You're too much, man.

You just come into this thread, say a bunch of inane nonsense, and then pretend like you're trying to have a serious discussion.

If you read all parts and still believe the stuff you're writing, you're wasting everyone's time on here.

You just united every atheist, agnostic, and believer on this board with your ignorance.

 

[KevanG]

Some of them anyway. He'll fit right in with certain members.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I'm thinking he might actually be an old "friend".

That or this forum really attracts a small group of Jack Chick fans.

 

[KevanG]

Chick tracts are hilarious though.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Some of them anyway. He'll fit right in with certain members.

A tiny fraction of SHH has responded to him, so it's pretty huge exaggeration.

 

[Thundercrack85]

A tiny fraction of SHH has responded to him, so it's pretty huge exaggeration.

Hey I'm still waiting on a PM from you, buddy!

But I meant to say thread.

 

[SpideyVille]

I don't think anybody's opinion merits respect if it is both dogmatic and wrong.

Deluded people should be confronted and challenged, to prevent them living in ignorance or, worse, impressing their malign influence on innocent children.

Well I was referring to his comments, and how its that kind of mindset that just ruins any kind of positive impact that someone might have in their attempt to share their beliefs with others, and how people like that need to learn how to open up their minds and not treat others who belief differently as though they are unintelligent people because of their beliefs.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I took issue with how he completely misrepresented... well, everything.

Have an argument fine, but don't tell me I believe in something I don't.

 

[childeroland]

Chick tracts are hilarious though.

Have you ever read the Crusader Comics? Some of them feature Alberto Rivera, a conspiracy theorist who believes, among other things, that the Catholic Church manipulated Muhammad to create Islam in order to destroy the Jews and non-Christian Catholics. The Church also caused the World Wars, created communism, and assassinated Lincoln AND JFK. The Jesuits (led by the Black Pope) are the masterminds, with the regular popes serving mostly as puppets. Superbly bats**t stuff.

 

[SpideyVille]

Sometimes I feel very ashamed of myself from the few years that I was a Christian and heavily involved in a church. I was soooooo judgmental and pushed away a lot of good people because of how insistent I was with my beliefs and how wrong I thought everyone else was.

 

[regwec]

If I were you, I would feel extremely proud of myself for having the fortitude to open my mind and become the better person within.

Fair play to you.

 

[SpideyVille]

It was definitely a struggle. I mean, I grew up with a really strict, religious mother (think of the mother from 'The Waterboy'), and I was pretty much raised to fear everything. Then I finally went to college and met a girl who presented a version of Christianity that was easy to relate to and I spent most of my college years there. When I finally got out, I went through almost a year of depression because I felt so guilty for doing something "bad" even though I had no intention of ever going back, and it was really hard to escape the judgment of my friends there and my mom.

I pretty much had to start over new at 22 years old, and its still been a struggle trying to live a "normal" life because I still have that twisted sense of morality in the back of my head. Like I'm 25 now and I'm heading to a party tonight and I feel a little uneasy because I normally don't go out to parties like this where people will definitely be drinking and smoking, but while I don't do that, I'm also not judging, even though I'm still dealing with that part of me that feels like I'm in a bad place. Because of this, I really wish people could see what kind of impact that religious beliefs in general can have on someone when they are forced onto people, or when fear is the tool that is used to try and spread it.

 

[regwec]

If it's any consolatation, I'm sure the worst is over for you and it will get a little easier every time. When people aren't held up to an artificial standard of scrutiny, it's easier to see the best in them.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I think we all have things we look back on and wish we hadn't done.

At least you changed for the better. Can't say that for everyone.