The Atheism Thread - Part 7

[MrsKent26]

Oh oh I know this one! It's some BS about how god gave us free will and how we're evil because he allows us to be.

And then he lets us drown for it?

 

[Feenix]

Pretty much. We used our free will in a bad way so we've got to be murdered punished for it. Like what any good parent would do.

I feel that because we're even responding to rodhulk, we're giving him the kind of platform that Bill Nye gave to Ken Ham. Except he's not even here to win debates, but to preach.

 

[MrsKent26]

I thought he was here to preach a few pages ago. But people seem to be having fun responding to him, so I shut my yap about it.

That does appear to be his purpose though.

 

[Feenix]

If no one posted in this thread, he would be here cutting and pasting his scripture. It's a no win scenario for us. Other than the satisfaction of knowing he's so off base that no one in their right mind would be convinced by his posts.

 

[MrsKent26]

To be honest, I do find it amusing when people flounder about trying to counter logic with superstition/fantasy. It's rather like a square peg in a round hole.

 

[Gee]

I'm an atheist and I rarely come in this thread. The last few pages are why I don't waste my time reading.

Though, when I do, I'm usually quite entertained by the likes of rodhulk and Old Timer.

 

[Feenix]

To be honest, I do find it amusing when people flounder about trying to counter logic with superstition/fantasy. It's rather like a square peg in a round hole.

It all fits!

 

[MrsKent26]

Haha, cute!

Just wait until he tries to get other cats to hop in there with him and then we'll have the perfect analogy.

 

[Snow Queen]

But know this, they only hate the Christian because they hated Christ first.

I constantly see Christians who say atheists, and sometimes people of other religions, hate Jesus. This is quite simply incorrect. They (myself included, of course) do not believe in Jesus as the son of God, if at all. What exactly about this do you not understand?

 

[KevanG]

(Deleting what isn't pertinent to the topics at hand and Israel because they were supposed to know peace at founding at hasn't happened yet)

You can also see that events taking place in the world are as per scripture said they would be.

http://www.raptureforums.com/BiblePr...01lastdays.cfm

Which have been used in the same fashion to explain various things all over the world for over a thousand years using the exact same scripture every time to say it's the end times and yet it doesn't happen.

Look at all these times people have predicted things would happen and didn't. Including many times for the Second Coming and the Rapture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_event

Many of these people here who I have debated with will deny the scriptures, that they are full of contradictions. But God is good and does answer many of these supposed contradictions.

2 Timothy 3:16: "All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, correcting..."

http://thedevineevidence.com/skeptic...adictions.html

http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...cripture-index

(This one has to do with creation-evolution) http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-...tering-critics

In Psalm 104:6-9, the passage does indeed say that the mountains rose after these mountains (land) were under water. After these mountains rise, scripture only then indicates that the flood waters will not be able to flood the earth anymore - that boundaries have been set - would it be these newly formed mountains and valleys that are the boundaries? Regardless of that, the real point I am making here is that the Bible got it correct that mountains were under water at some point just as evolution says. The rising of these mountains is after a time they were under water according to the scripture and the sea fossils we find on mountain tops confirm evolution's explanation of why we find sea fossils on mountain tops, at least to the point of mountains rising after being under water. The Bible really did get it right even despite evolutionists denial of the flood account, the idea that evolutionists will say that the mountains were under water is exactly what this scripture says.... oh, and scripture says it perhaps thousands of years before evolutionists found this to be true.

1) Job 26:7 God hangs the earth on nothing.

2) Isaiah 40:22 Earth is circular.

3) Job 9:8 God stretches out the heavens. Think the big bang here.

It's never been too hard to find fossils in certain places. Mountains not being excepting from this. If you find fish bones in solid rock then you're going to figure that something happened to make it like that. Assuming that rock moves due to previous experiences with earthquakes or even tales of such things happening isn't exactly a massive leap in thinking.

1) Just look at the moon like our ancestors did. There's nothing obvious holding it in place so for them it's sound reasoning that the same thing holds the earth in place.

2)You can tell the earth is circular just by standing on a tall hill or mountain and see the curvature of the Earth. Nothing really special about that anyone from a sheep herder to the Pope could do it and see that's true.

3) Or you could look up at the sky. No big bang needed. The sky stretched out and when it's dark you can see outer space that stretches for infinity.

 

[Doctor Evo]

If you know this then why do you keep referring to me in your posts?

Why wouldn't I? I'm not the one who refuses to have a discussion.

 

[mkilban2]

I don't get it, if one person or people don't believe what you feel is the correct belief, or have a different set of beliefs than your own, what's the point of trying to convince that party that your side is right and their side is wrong?

Science and religions aside I personally don't think anyone knows the truth. If you decide to take the universe and evolution as your belief of how we've gotten to where we are now that's fantastic, and if you believe that what's written in the Bible or any religious text is the reason we are where we are that's amazing as well. Who am I to say what's right or what's wrong?

If someone is happy with what they believe in and that makes their life more comfortable and reassuring then that makes me happy for them as well. I don't care if they believe in science or a grand creator or that were all living in someone else's dream.

Idk what I personally believe, I lean towards the more science/evolution thing but I also find comfort in some higher power out there whatever that may be. I'm by no means religious but I attended catholic school for 12 years, I've come to take the Bible as stories to live your life by to make others lives better, not to be taken as a literal fact.

I'm just happy to have life and share it with those around me, I try to make the best out of every day that I can and enjoy the short time we have here. If after this life I spend eternity with those I've known that'd be cool, if I'm stuck in the found forever and it's all shut off then I'm glad I had the time I experienced, if I'm reincarnated I hope I get to be a bird cause they seem like they have fun, plus I wanna fly!

Okay, back to all your silly arguments I'll creep back into the shadows.

 

[Marvolo]

The way Christians try to sugar coat their God or don't seem to see the strange dichotomy really baffles me. Let's ignore all the stuff in the Old Testament and just focus on the New Testament. The Christian doctrine is allll about the love of God and his "Son" then it turns right around and tells you that that same all loving all powerful all knowing God is going to burn you forever in a lake of fire if you don't accept that love. That's not love folks. Not any definition of love matches that. It's insanity is what it is. It's insanity sugar coated and gift wrapped to look like love. And it leaves Christians with a warped idea of love and righteousness and it leaves them worrying more about the afterlife and their own place in it more than this life and the real suffering of others.

Hell as a concept is just strange. Finite sins warrant infinite punishment? How does that make any sense? Is that the best an all knowing and logical being could come up with? I doubt it. The concept reeks of flawed human logic or the human need to control others.

 

[Alex_Spider]

The only thing close to the concept of "god" that might exist, I assume that would be some kind of massive energy or a universal conscience, that surely doesn't give a F*** if humans worship "him" or how many times we pray in its name and if we sin, we will burn in hell for eternity. Those are purely man made fantasy based on superstitious fears and to control the masses of the population easier. It would be childish at the least especially in this day and age to believe in those ridiculous concepts.

 

[Levsky]

The way Christians try to sugar coat their God or don't seem to see the strange dichotomy really baffles me. Let's ignore all the stuff in the Old Testament and just focus on the New Testament. The Christian doctrine is allll about the love of God and his "Son" then it turns right around and tells you that that same all loving all powerful all knowing God is going to burn you forever in a lake of fire if you don't accept that love. That's not love folks. Not any definition of love matches that. It's insanity is what it is. It's insanity sugar coated and gift wrapped to look like love. And it leaves Christians with a warped idea of love and righteousness and it leaves them worrying more about the afterlife and their own place in it more than this life and the real suffering of others.

There are more such things that make it complicated for me. Given all we know from the Bible, it appears to me that God firstly got angry at whole humankind because of our sins, then he decided to become a man, a father and a son at the same time, so to sacrifice himself to himself, by attempting some kind of suicide, so to redeem his and humankind's sins which he was angry for from the beginning. Isn't that crazy?

I mean... it looks like God paid a ransom to himself, actually, so to save us from a punishment which he put on us in the first place.

 

[regwec]

The Christian doctrine is allll about the love of God and his "Son" then it turns right around and tells you that that same all loving all powerful all knowing God is going to burn you forever in a lake of fire if you don't accept that love.

I think that legally, you're describing something like rape by duress. That remains quite popular in parts of the priesthood, so I suppose they are doing their god's work after all.

The only thing close to the concept of "god" that might exist, I assume that would be some kind of massive energy or a universal conscience, that surely doesn't give a F*** if humans worship "him" or how many times we pray in its name and if we sin, we will burn in hell for eternity. Those are purely man made fantasy based on superstitious fears and to control the masses of the population easier. It would be childish at the least especially in this day and age to believe in those ridiculous concepts.

Yes, I must say that, as a fictional character, I find Azathoth more convincing than Yahweh.

 

[MrsKent26]

I don't get it, if one person or people don't believe what you feel is the correct belief, or have a different set of beliefs than your own, what's the point of trying to convince that party that your side is right and their side is wrong?

Science and religions aside I personally don't think anyone knows the truth. If you decide to take the universe and evolution as your belief of how we've gotten to where we are now that's fantastic, and if you believe that what's written in the Bible or any religious text is the reason we are where we are that's amazing as well. Who am I to say what's right or what's wrong?

If someone is happy with what they believe in and that makes their life more comfortable and reassuring then that makes me happy for them as well. I don't care if they believe in science or a grand creator or that were all living in someone else's dream.

Idk what I personally believe, I lean towards the more science/evolution thing but I also find comfort in some higher power out there whatever that may be. I'm by no means religious but I attended catholic school for 12 years, I've come to take the Bible as stories to live your life by to make others lives better, not to be taken as a literal fact.

I'm just happy to have life and share it with those around me, I try to make the best out of every day that I can and enjoy the short time we have here. If after this life I spend eternity with those I've known that'd be cool, if I'm stuck in the found forever and it's all shut off then I'm glad I had the time I experienced, if I'm reincarnated I hope I get to be a bird cause they seem like they have fun, plus I wanna fly!

Okay, back to all your silly arguments I'll creep back into the shadows.

To be fair, one side of this argument (atheists) aren't claiming to have all the answers to the world's mysteries. We're just claiming that we don't believe in deities. It's Christians, for example, that claim to have the answers to it all("God did it" lol).

Also, I don't think anyone here (except for perhaps rodhulk) is trying to change the views of others in any real way. We're just discussing things because we're on a discussion forum and that's what we do here.

 

[Dr.]

I don't get it, if one person or people don't believe what you feel is the correct belief, or have a different set of beliefs than your own, what's the point of trying to convince that party that your side is right and their side is wrong?

...Who am I to say what's right or what's wrong?

It’s a tad disingenuous to cast the “religion debate” in terms of subjective taste - like fashion or a favorite flavor of ice cream. To a large degree, we’re talking about factual descriptions of reality. For instance: Hypothetically… the Universe might be 10000 years old (as specified by a literal reading of Genesis) or over 13 billion years old (as described by science). But it can’t be both; one version is right and the other is wrong. Likewise, either gods exist or they don’t. These are claims of fact about the nature of the Universe; and the answer isn’t determined by private preference.

“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” - Philip K. Dick

I don’t think a skeptic has a particular interest or incentive in debunking a personal belief system - provided that it is truly personal. You think that meditating in front of a crystal gives you inner peace and makes you a better person? Go for it! But if the crystal starts telling you how morality, society, government, education, health care, etc. should be structured, expect a discussion on how your truth claims are determined.

 

[SV Fan]

I mean... it looks like God paid a ransom to himself, actually, so to save us from a punishment which he put on us in the first place.

If God was all powerful, couldn't he find an easier way to take that punishment away then kill "himself"? (It should be pointed out the Trinity is a bunch of BS, it's was created by the Roman Catholic Church)

 

[Hal_Jordan]

This was pretty funny. Creationist's answer to the Cosmos tv show...

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/fa1a1c8fb7/creationist-cosmos

 

[Hotwire]

If there is an a God that is benevolent, then that God does not want evil to happen.


If there is a God that is omnipotent, then that God can prevent evil from happening.


If God both wanted to prevent evil and could do so, then there would be no evil in the world.


There is evil in the world.


Therefore, God cannot be both benevolent and omnipotent, or there cannot exist an all powerful and perfectly good God.




So which is it? Is your god either 1) Not all powerful or 2) Not all good?


If you can't pick one of those, why?


If you can pick...why do you believe in a God that is not powerful enough to vanquish evil or not kind enough to want to?

Pretty much.

 

[Destructus86]

The way Christians try to sugar coat their God or don't seem to see the strange dichotomy really baffles me. Let's ignore all the stuff in the Old Testament and just focus on the New Testament. The Christian doctrine is allll about the love of God and his "Son" then it turns right around and tells you that that same all loving all powerful all knowing God is going to burn you forever in a lake of fire if you don't accept that love. That's not love folks. Not any definition of love matches that. It's insanity is what it is. It's insanity sugar coated and gift wrapped to look like love. And it leaves Christians with a warped idea of love and righteousness and it leaves them worrying more about the afterlife and their own place in it more than this life and the real suffering of others.

Hell as a concept is just strange. Finite sins warrant infinite punishment? How does that make any sense? Is that the best an all knowing and logical being could come up with? I doubt it. The concept reeks of flawed human logic or the human need to control others.

The concept and message of "repent or burn in hell forever!!!" is a fairly new one within Christianity. It wasn't until around the middle ages when the catholic church took on a form of pretty much governing power that the message of "repent or burn" became a common theme. Funny enough...when Christians broke off from the catholic church they still clung to some of those incorrect concepts and still do even to this day.

 

[BestGirl]

Behold the terrifying monstrosity where humans living with dinosaurs, the tower of Babel leading to different languages, and a world wide flood will be presented as "history" and "science".

Is it wrong that I want to visit this theme park? It looks like fun.

 

[Breogan]

Is it wrong that I want to visit this theme park? It looks like fun.

No it's definitely not wrong, watching a fantasy mechanical dino working with humans and being loaded onto an ark full of friendly animals probably would be fun. Like watching or visting the land of the Flinstones, Dinotopia or DINO-RIDERS etc...
And I'm glad the guy has the right to, and will build his fun-park to fleece his followers, as anyone should, I would defend his right to build his fantasy land and you and all to enjoy it.)

Not sure how they'll portray the "fun" of all the heathens men woman and children drowning to death though?


That said, presenting this ridiculous fantasy as "science" to kids is pretty pathetic though.
Which is the intent of the park.

But by all means enjoy it, take your kids too! tell them it's science, I don't care what they teach their kids or how they spend their money.
Just as long as they don't ask this crap be taught in public schools (which really is their end game), or that the govt. endorse this fantasy or any of the other outrageous delusional religious cult fantasies as something I need to believe in.
Otherwise it's all good, have fun enjoy SKY CAKE!

 

[SV Fan]

Funny enough...when Christians broke off from the catholic church they still clung to some of those incorrect concepts and still do even to this day.

The thing I never get is the protestant religions wanted to break away from the Catholic church, yet they keep the bible they created int he 4th century. You think if somebody believed that that something is not quite right with the Catholic religion they might dispute some of the books they added the the New Testament and some they kept out.

Also why is the Book of Enoch not in the bible? It's referenced many times in the New Testament, it also has face to face interaction with God, which is much more valid then many stories in the OT that have absolutely nothing to do with god(I am looking at you book of Esther)