I never called Batman Returns campy. I said it had campy elements in it. I'm well aware of the backlash it had for being too dark and scary for kids. That doesn't mean every single scene in it was a terror experience for kids.
You called scenes in Batman Returns pure camp. You seem to be equating anything you see as funny as being pure camp. The common definition of campy humor is self-parody, like the TV show this thread is about. We know that Tim Burton was not doing a self-parody, as Tim Burton says himself in his Batman Returns commentary, "I never wanted it to turn into like a farce or a campy kind of thing or a parody kind of a thing."
The villains in BTAS never got to kill anyone either. But campy is the last thing they'd be described as.
Like Tim Burton, while there was some character driven humor, Bruce Timm also took the characters seriously and, while he did have Adam West voice the Gray Ghost in one episode, Bruce Timm was trying to distance his version from the popular campy TV show. Kevin Conroy explained that, "My only real exposure to Batman was the Adam West TV series. So when I went in to audition for Batman: The Animated Series, I told Bruce Timm that and he said, 'Oh God, no. That’s not at all the direction we’re going. This is based on the original Dark Knight series. This goes back to the Bob Kane tradition. It’s very dramatic. It’s very noir.' And he described to me the whole history of the Batman legend, which I was really completely ignorant of."
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=23096
Kevin Conroy: "The only exposure I had to it (Batman) was sort of the campy '70s show that Adam West did, which the director, when Andrea (Romano) was auditioning me for the role, she was like 'No, no, no, that’s not the direction we’re going! Wipe your brain clean of that.'"
http://www.comicbooked.com/exclusive-kevin-conroy-gets-comic-booked/
If Denise De Novi's words are to be believed, then Hamm and Waters wouldn't have used plots from the 60's TV show in the first place if Burton's opposition to camp was so established. The writers would be keenly aware of what their director wants. Second, with all due respect to Burton, he was living in cloud cuckoo land if he thought stuff like a marching army of penguins or a giant yellow duck car was not camp.
I'm very much aware that you think so. Here is the full page from Starlog #178 (May, 1992) that I quoted from where Denise De Novi states Tim Burton's view on camp.
Batman Returns producer Denise De Novi would know Tim Burton's view on camp. I have no reason not to believe her. Sam Hamm and Daniel Waters wrote very dark Batman scripts, which was obviously Tim Burton's preference. Jack Nicholson's Joker destroying masterpieces showed the Joker's chaotic nature, making a mockery of art and him only liking pictures of death should tell you that he really was about killing and death, and Danny DeVito's Penguin running for mayor showed the Penguin's conning nature as he plotted to kill Gotham's children. Cesar Romero's Joker having had also defaced paintings on the campy TV show and Burgess Meredith's Penguin having had also ran for mayor on the campy TV show does not mean that Tim Burton was trying to make his films campy. The Joker destroying masterpieces and the Penguin running for mayor are not necessarily campy things in of themselves. What made them campy on the show is how they were played out, as the "Pop Goes The Joker" episode was a campy parody of the popularity of pop art and the "Hizzoner The Penguin" and "Dizzonor the Penguin" episodes was an exaggerated campy parody of two types of political campaigns, one being an over-the-top show (the Burgess Meredith Penguin's campaign) and the other being completely sedated and dull (the Adam West Batman's campaign) with Chief O'Hara falling asleep.
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I never said Burton specifically wanted him. I originally asked you if there was any truth in the rumor that Burgess was up for the part. Maybe you're right and it was WB who wanted Burgess rather than Burton.
But since Burton apparently had full creative freedom on Returns, I doubt Burgess would have even been considered if he was as opposed to any connections to the TV show as you say. Yet all sources say the only reason Burgess didn't do it was because he was ill at the time.
Rumors can be wrong. There was a lot of rumors that Joseph Gordon-Levitt was going to be the Riddler as the main villain in The Dark Knight Rises. I also remember the rumors that Philip Seymour Hoffman was being cast as the Penguin for Nolan's The Dark Knight. I doubt Tim Burton seriously considered Burgess Meredith as Oswald's father in the first place. Again, I believe Tim Burton had originally intended to cast Paul Reubens and Diane Salinger from Pee-wee's Big Adventure as Oswald's parents. Judging from Tim Burton's own Batman Returns commentary, he picked personal favorite actors of his preference for those roles. He said, "Like anything you make, you like to make it personal, so it was fun to work with Paul and Diane. It's obviously a small little role, but as the Penguin's parents it was important, and that (the doctor) was Stuart Lancaster who was in Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!, who was also in Edward Scissorhands in a small part. So, you know, I like to make things as personal as possible."
So it's pretty clear to me that Tim Burton had gotten who he wanted. Stuart Lancaster was cast as the doctor just because Tim Burton's a fan of Russ Meyer's Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill! During his Edward Scissorhands commentary Tim Burton said, "This guy is Stuart Lancaster, he's the star of Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!, which is a great movie. He use to be one of Russ Meyer's actors in all of his films."
I think you misunderstood my opinion of it. A campy movie it is not. It's a dark movie with campy elements in it.
I understood your opinion of Batman Returns. What I'm doing is disagreeing with that opinion. You say it has pure camp elements, and as you know, I disagree. I see Batman Returns as a dark movie with dark humor in it, and I say lets agree to disagree because it's obvious that no amount of back and forth arguing on our part is going to change the others point of view. This thread isn't about Batman Returns. Let's get back on topic.
t: That's what I liked about it. Paul Reubens was dressed a lot like classic Burgess Penguin.
