The Batman General News & Discussion Thread - Part 2

[BatLobster]

This is a pretty good deep dive podcast with Reeves. It's a screenwriting podcast so the focus is on the script and writing process, but it touches on a bit of everything. A few interesting little nuggets of info here. I'll put in spoiler tags in case anyone wants to just listen clean.

Spoiler

-Reeves wrote the first act himself. Because of how slow his process takes, he was worried that he would slow down too much in the second act because of how detailed the plot needed to be. He had the broad strokes of it, but Peter Craig was brought in to help him flesh it out and move the process along faster because he was worried the second act would really slow him down because of all the detailed detective stuff. He speaks highly of Peter but they have very different ways of working. He thinks he probably drove Craig nuts, haha.

-Mattson Tomlin was brought into help with the third act, which was even more of a blank slate than the second act. Reeves was a producer on Tomlin's Mother/Android film and felt a connection to his work on that. He approached him about coming on board the project not initially realizing that Mattson was a huge Batman fan.

-Interestingly, he also did not realize that Jeph Loeb, his former teacher, had written The Long Halloween and such important comics until he actually sat down to start deep researching for this movie. He says he didn't come to the character through the comics, but when it came time to the write movie he wanted to read everything he could get his hands on. I think this mythbusts the idea that he's been a lifelong comic book reader, which I think some have been incorrectly asserting. He was a fan through the TV series and films.

-The Riddler's "I just ordered a slice of some pumpkin pie" line is a reference to the Golden State Killer (which btw, I'll Be Gone in the Dark-- great book and great HBO doc if you're into true crime.)

All in all definitely an enjoyable listen.

 

[shauner111]

Sounds like he’s a very slow writer. And won’t be working with Peter Craig for the sequels.

“There’s nothing that says COMMERCIAL more than the Gotham renewal project!”

I was wrong about him being a comic book fan beforehand. His love is connected to 66. But he seems so obsessive that you couldn’t tell by watching the movie that he only found the comics during his research. He really dove into the comics like a beast. And he’ll be doing it again for the sequel which is so exciting. Can’t wait to see what he lands on.

I also agree with him about the appeal of Year One vs Dark Knight Returns.

 

[antsman41]

…backyard Batman.

 

[Invader Joker]

This is a pretty good deep dive podcast with Reeves. It's a screenwriting podcast so the focus is on the script and writing process, but it touches on a bit of everything. A few interesting little nuggets of info here. I'll put in spoiler tags in case anyone wants to just listen clean.

Spoiler

-Reeves wrote the first act himself. Because of how slow his process takes, he was worried that he would slow down too much in the second act because of how detailed the plot needed to be. He had the broad strokes of it, but Peter Craig was brought in to help him flesh it out and move the process along faster because he was worried the second act would really slow him down because of all the detailed detective stuff. He speaks highly of Peter but they have very different ways of working. He thinks he probably drove Craig, haha.

-Mattson Tomlin was brought into help with the third act, which was even more of a blank slate than the second act. Reeves was a producer on Tomlin's Mother/Android film and felt a connection to his work on that. He approached him about coming on board the project not initially realizing that Mattson was a huge Batman fan.

-Interestingly, he also did not realize that Jeph Loeb, his former teacher, had written The Long Halloween and such important comics until he actually sat down to start deep researching for this movie. He says he didn't come to the character through the comics, but when it came time to the write movie he wanted to read everything he could get his hands on. I think this mythbusts the idea that he's been a lifelong comic book reader, which I some have been incorrectly asserting. He was a fan through the TV series and films.

-The Riddler's "I just ordered a slice of some pumpkin pie" line is a reference to the Golden State Killer (which btw, I'll Be Gone in the Dark-- great book and great HBO doc if you're into true crime.)

All in all definitely an enjoyable listen.

From other interviews he's kinda made it sound like he did get into the comics when he was a teenager but didn't follow them regularly or anything. He was probably aware of them and read some over the decades but didn't fully delve into the history until he was hired.

 

[RokMeAmadeus]

Or he's a poser just like every other director

I jest... Kinda

 

[BatLobster]

From other interviews he's kinda made it sound like he did get into the comics when he was a teenager but didn't follow them regularly or anything. He was probably aware of them and read some over the decades but didn't fully delve into the history until he was hired.

I would imagine if anything maybe he'd picked up Dark Knight Returns based on his age and how popular the book was at the time. It's certainly possible that he'd flipped through a few books over the years but big picture, it wasn't his main connection to the character. He's obviously a quick study and absorbed a pretty deep level of knowledge over a short period. Like cramming for the final exam. It's no different than how myself or I'm sure many others got more deeply into it. The thing is, the world of the comics, with all its continuity shenanigans can be really intimidating to penetrate if you start out as a casual fan. It's way different now with the internet, but especially before then, it was intimidating because it can be hard to know where to start without having someone to guide you.

I also think that if you're making a Batman movie, it can be an advantage to be able to understand the viewpoint of both casual fan as well as a more hardcore fan. Ultimately, the vast majority of the audience you're making the movie for is coming at it from the more casual perspective and it probably helps allow you to come up with a fresh and personal spin on it. We also currently have a problem with a lot of corporate franchise filmmaking starting to feel like fan fiction, so as long as the respect for the history is there and the enthusiasm is real I don't see the problem.

 

[antsman41]

I noticed last night for the first time that bullets and metal scraps are vibrating from SITW on one of the batcave's tables.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I really wish this film stayed with me.

I like it a lot. But I last saw it in the theater in late March or early April. I intended to get HBO Max so I could watch it - I didn't.

I bought the steelbook early on release day - I still haven't watched it.

That says something about the film's staying power with me.

 

[antsman41]

I hit viewing #11... it's perfect in my mind - and I was a Nolan/Bale snob.

The 2x I've watched in on in the background at work, just the music makes me get goosebumbs in parts... let alone some of the dialogue.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I noticed last night for the first time that bullets and metal scraps are vibrating from SITW on one of the batcave's tables.

Yeah I noticed that on my second viewing. Cool stuff.

I really wish this film stayed with me.

I like it a lot. But I last saw it in the theater in late March or early April. I intended to get HBO Max so I could watch it - I didn't.

I bought the steelbook early on release day - I still haven't watched it.

That says something about the film's staying power with me.

Since you already got yourself a copy of the film, you should probably just watch it again and see how you feel this time.

 

[WayneMB]

we need this scene badly

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

I really wish this film stayed with me.

I like it a lot. But I last saw it in the theater in late March or early April. I intended to get HBO Max so I could watch it - I didn't.

I bought the steelbook early on release day - I still haven't watched it.

That says something about the film's staying power with me.

my guy, you literally just described procrastination

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

Starting a petition to make The Batman 2 a musical.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

I love it. People wanted comic book movies to branch out and do something different. Well, here it is. A Joker/Harlequin musical. Why the F not.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Since you already got yourself a copy of the film, you should probably just watch it again and see how you feel this time.

Eh, I saw it 6 times in theater.

You'd think I'd love it by now if I did.

 

[shauner111]

@OnLeatherWings i call that a burnout. I don’t know how ppl watch a single film more than 4 or 5 times a year. If I did that with my all time favs I’d get sick of them and not touch em’ for years. I’ve seen The Batman 3 times now and I’ll see it again in October to kick off my Halloween season. But after that? Probably won’t watch it til’ sometime in 2023.

It’s like listening to the same new album over and over. You’re gonna get so sick of it.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Eh, I saw it 6 times in theater.

You'd think I'd love it by now if I did.

Well that little bit of info changes things

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

Looks like The Penguin series is not going to start filming tomorrow. We still haven’t got any casting news or anything.

 

[marsh]

This is a pretty good deep dive podcast with Reeves. It's a screenwriting podcast so the focus is on the script and writing process, but it touches on a bit of everything. A few interesting little nuggets of info here. I'll put in spoiler tags in case anyone wants to just listen clean.

Spoiler

-Reeves wrote the first act himself. Because of how slow his process takes, he was worried that he would slow down too much in the second act because of how detailed the plot needed to be. He had the broad strokes of it, but Peter Craig was brought in to help him flesh it out and move the process along faster because he was worried the second act would really slow him down because of all the detailed detective stuff. He speaks highly of Peter but they have very different ways of working. He thinks he probably drove Craig nuts, haha.

-Mattson Tomlin was brought into help with the third act, which was even more of a blank slate than the second act. Reeves was a producer on Tomlin's Mother/Android film and felt a connection to his work on that. He approached him about coming on board the project not initially realizing that Mattson was a huge Batman fan.

-Interestingly, he also did not realize that Jeph Loeb, his former teacher, had written The Long Halloween and such important comics until he actually sat down to start deep researching for this movie. He says he didn't come to the character through the comics, but when it came time to the write movie he wanted to read everything he could get his hands on. I think this mythbusts the idea that he's been a lifelong comic book reader, which I think some have been incorrectly asserting. He was a fan through the TV series and films.

-The Riddler's "I just ordered a slice of some pumpkin pie" line is a reference to the Golden State Killer (which btw, I'll Be Gone in the Dark-- great book and great HBO doc if you're into true crime.)

All in all definitely an enjoyable listen.

One of these days we'll get a Batman movie from a director that's actually a huge fan. I love the Batman but in context this makes sense. Seems like it was made by someone who liked the movies alright and knew batman through cultural osmosis less than his graphic novel roots.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Reeve's isn't a true fan or whatever or calling him a hack but I'd be lying if I said yet another grounded realistic take after Nolan leaves me a bit cold. And next to this, Nolan's take is comic booky by comparison which is something I never thought possible.

I hope with the next reboot we can get a full embrace of the Batman mythology. So we don't have to yet another "how does X villain work in this universe?" "I feel this X is too unrealistic for this take" discourse. I'm looking at you Mr. Freeze. Something that has verisimilitude and takes it seriously and isn't MCUized but where we can see manbat or a mr freeze with a cryo gun and dome helmet or an iceberg lounge that's the big ice and glass structure or where say nightwing or batgirl could pop up for a scene or two and it's not this huge thing but they're just supporting characters in Batman's world like the comics. You guys know what I'm saying? Something like Arkham and I could die happy. To me, that is the only direction for the next reboot.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Nolans Batman was a heightened reality. It appeared similar to our world while still feeling like a big summer blockbuster comic book film, not unlike Superman 78. I don't get why people didn't realize that before. And for me, it struck the perfect balance.

 

[Lautox]

Starting a petition to make The Batman 2 a musical.

maybe the musical scenes of the film will be part of a dream

 

[shauner111]

One of these days we'll get a Batman movie from a director that's actually a huge fan. I love the Batman but in context this makes sense. Seems like it was made by someone who liked the movies alright and knew batman through cultural osmosis less than his graphic novel roots.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Reeve's isn't a true fan or whatever or calling him a hack but I'd be lying if I said yet another grounded realistic take after Nolan leaves me a bit cold. And next to this, Nolan's take is comic booky by comparison which is something I never thought possible.

I hope with the next reboot we can get a full embrace of the Batman mythology. So we don't have to yet another "how does X villain work in this universe?" "I feel this X is too unrealistic for this take" discourse. I'm looking at you Mr. Freeze. Something that has verisimilitude and takes it seriously and isn't MCUized but where we can see manbat or a mr freeze with a cryo gun and dome helmet or an iceberg lounge that's the big ice and glass structure or where say nightwing or batgirl could pop up for a scene or two and it's not this huge thing but they're just supporting characters in Batman's world like the comics. You guys know what I'm saying? Something like Arkham and I could die happy. To me, that is the only direction for the next reboot.

That will never happen in this universe sorry bud.

And Reeves is the biggest fan to have ever directed a Batman movie. He loved the 60’s series as a kid, and loved some of the movies. He knows what he’s talking about with BTAS and then fell in love with the source material before making the movie. I read one comic before I hit my 20’s and then did a deep dive much later. And yet I was a huge fan of Batman since I was 3. The guy knew about Ego before I did, so how is he not more of a fan?

And I find Reeves’ take much more comic booky than Nolan’s.

 

[shauner111]

Nolans Batman was a heightened reality. It appeared similar to our world while still feeling like a big summer blockbuster comic book film, not unlike Superman 78. I don't get why people didn't realize that before. And for me, it struck the perfect balance.

Everything you say is right but I don’t agree that it struck a perfect balance. The humour was dry but not really deadpan, the horror wasn’t there especially in the sequels and there was barely an emphasis on detective work. Only a couple of scenes throughout the trilogy. The atmosphere wasn’t there, it was a lot cleaner. So to me it didn’t exactly strike the right balance yet it was all good for what it was. Also the majority of my favourite Batman stories from the source don’t have that huge blockbuster feel.

It’s all about personal preference at the end of the day and I do think TDK is one of the more balanced comic book movies around. But The Batman ticks more boxes for me from horror to comedy to gangster to action to mystery thriller to romance & sexy AF lol. Hell there’s even a nod to westerns in one scene.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Everything you say is right but I don’t agree that it struck a perfect balance. The humour was dry but not really deadpan, the horror wasn’t there especially in the sequels and there was barely an emphasis on detective work. Only a couple of scenes throughout the trilogy. The atmosphere wasn’t there, it was a lot cleaner. So to me it didn’t exactly strike the right balance yet it was all good for what it was. Also the majority of my favourite Batman stories from the source don’t have that huge blockbuster feel.

It’s all about personal preference at the end of the day and I do think TDK is one of the more balanced comic book movies around. But The Batman ticks more boxes for me from horror to comedy to gangster to action to mystery thriller to romance & sexy AF lol. Hell there’s even a nod to westerns in one scene.

Honestly, it's just awesome that Batman has been able to have numerous adaptions that have something for everybody. There's not a single superhero that has had more of a diverse lineup of interpretations.

 

[J.Drangal]

Honestly, it's just awesome that Batman has been able to have numerous adaptions that have something for everybody. There's not a single superhero that has had more of a diverse lineup of interpretations.

Absolutely ! I've always taken this as a testament that Batman is "more" than a lot of other superheroes, even if very popular. There's something about the character, his enemies, his universe, that is strongly archetypal and allows him to consistently be re-invented, to adapt.
I sincerely think that, in 100 years, Batman will still be there, next to Sherlock Holmes, Dracula and other icons, when many other popular superheroes will have been forgotten...