The Batman General News & Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Eddie Dean]

Maybe he would even wear a rather large hat on his head

 

[Gothamsknight]

Got a question for Mad Hatter fans. Older or younger actor? Someone who just started since Batman’s appeared or should he be around for a couple decades?

The age doesn't matter to me. I think it would be cool if it's someone who sort of just started, or started semi recently but is finally getting Batman's attention due to the rising intensity/danger of what he's doing. Whichever works haha.

 

[shauner111]

Counterpoint: He could just be a guy who really really likes Alice in Wonderland.

It ain’t that deep folks.

Lame.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

Lame.

Don’t really care what a guy who wants Zsasz to be a rapist and Mad Hatter to be a child trafficker thinks of as “lame.”

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Don’t really care what a guy who wants Zsasz to be a rapist and Mad Hatter to be a child trafficker thinks of as “lame.”

Mad Hatter being a trafficker is plucked straight from Robin: Year One. But that angle isn’t necessary at all for a movie.

 

[shauner111]

Don’t really care what a guy who wants Zsasz to be a rapist and Mad Hatter to be a child trafficker thinks of as “lame.”

So do you also think it's lame that they made Riddler a Zodiac style serial killer? Or when Miller made Catwoman a prostitute? It's funny to see who draws the line as being lame to "too much". When the idea is to think of ways to make villains actual despicable villains. And to make it work within the context of a real world, like making Edward a serial killer.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

So do you also think it's lame that they made Riddler a Zodiac style serial killer? Or when Miller made Catwoman a prostitute? It's funny to see who draws the line as being lame to "too much". When the idea is to think of ways to make villains actual despicable villains. And to make it work within the context of a real world, like making Edward a serial killer.

Riddler is completely and utterly detached from real serial killers, it just uses true crime imagery as an influence. He belongs to the post-Thomas Harris literary tradition of serial killers who are basically just super villains with a true crime glaze. It’s an ultra comic booky exaggeration in a way that is, to say the least, rather hard to do and distasteful when it comes to sex crimes. Catwoman being a sex worker is a little different than trying to prove your dark and gritty points by making Mad Hatter a diddler.

Dealing with rape on screen is an incredibly touchy, challenging matter and should not be taken lightly. Whether you think it should be or not, it is different from non-sexual violent crimes in terms of how it comes off on screen. It shouldn't be trotted out as a way to make you real angry at the bad guys in a ****ing Batman movie.

If you can do it in True Detective, you can do it in Gotham City.

As far as I'm concerned this is supposed to be the grossest place you can possibly live in. If Riddler is a serial killer targeting ppl in power who take advantage of the poor, then I'd make Zsasz a rapist, Mad Hatter a pedo or someone involved in child trafficking, Joker a killer clown, Catwoman a prostitute/thief, Penguin a mobster, Court of Owls like the Illuminati who kidnaps children and brainwashes/trains them to be become assassins. Which segues back into Laz's Hatter working for the Court pitch. Which is actually something I also laid out to Trevino a couple months back in a DM. Had a scene in mind and everything. So more than one person thinking alike with Hatter/Court obviously means there's something there.

Everything that could frighten you should exist in Gotham. A collection of the worst of humanity. Don't want it in a PG movie? K change the rating. Stop being wussies. If I can watch this stuff in Taxi Driver where pedos, prostitutes, gangsters, crooked politicians, vigilantes all make up this cesspool that is New York. And yet ppl just want the watered down version of that movie it seems. Gotham should be even worse than what's depicted in NYC cuz it's supposed to be a nightmare city.

Taxi Driver, while an obvious aesthetic influence on The Batman is a completely different kind of movie. It's a realistic drama about the violent breakdown of a severely mentally ill racist, it couldn't possibly be a more dissimilar kind of story beyond the vague concept of a guy being real mad that his city sucks (in ultimately profoundly different ways) and... I guess vigilantism? Though I don't see any real commonality between what Travis does and Batman.

The Batman, and I don't mean this dismissively, is ultimately going to be a fun pulpy thriller. If you tried to actually make Batman literally feel like Taxi Driver you're gonna wind up with something like Aronofsky's Year One script which is absolutely hilarious because it is so clearly embarrassed to be a Batman story. Even then it will never actually feel like Taxi Driver because even the most realistic interpretation of Batman is a completely fantastical story.

 

[Invader Joker]

Riddler is completely and utterly detached from real serial killers, it just uses true crime imagery as an influence. He belongs to the post-Thomas Harris literary tradition of serial killers who are basically just super villains with a true crime glaze. It’s an ultra comic booky exaggeration in a way that is, to say the least, rather hard to do and distasteful when it comes to sex crimes. Catwoman being a sex worker is a little different than trying to prove your dark and gritty points by making Mad Hatter a diddler.

Dealing with rape on screen is an incredibly touchy, challenging matter and should not be taken lightly. Whether you think it should be or not, it is different from non-sexual violent crimes in terms of how it comes off on screen. It shouldn't be trotted out as a way to make you real angry at the bad guys in a ****ing Batman movie. It is so utterly, utterly unnecessary unless you're going to tell a story about sexual violence and the effects it has on pe
ople which... Not really

It worked on Arkham Asylum ASHOSE though. And again they don't have to make any of it explicit. Gotham, an incredibly goofy and dumb show, handled the topic of Hatter being a rapist and there were absolutely zero complaints about that. Nobody wants the acts to be shown on-screen or anything, or to have graphic descriptions about them, alluding to them works well enough.

I think the reason it works for Hatter in particular is that he, for the last 35 years, has been an incredibly creepy character with those undertones on pretty much all media. In TAS he wasn't a pedo, but he was must certainly a creep with some pretty screwed up intentions towards the girl he was obsessed with even if never outright explicitly mentioned. Ever since Batman and his world has become darker, Hatter has always been a character with those sort of undertones.

The Arkham games did a good job of it too; well, specifically Arkham Origins. He had kidnapped a teenage girl he was obsessed with and that ended up breaking down after Batman liberates her. They never tell you anything beyond that, but it's pretty clear what that was alluding to. And again, it was hardly a controversial topic when that came out, so I don't see why this has to be any different as long as it's not explicit. He can "just be" a serial killer with an MO of kidnapping and killing teenage girls with blonde hair (which isn't that far off from what he typically is) anybody can fill in the blanks themselves. It'd probably be a bit easier to deal with these topics in a metaphorical way with the mind control thing (although I'd argue the comic-accurate mind control only makes it more ****ed up) but I don't know if this world leans itself towards the concept of mind control.

 

[Invader Joker]

Taxi Driver, while an obvious aesthetic influence on The Batman is a completely different kind of movie. It's a realistic drama about the violent breakdown of a severely mentally ill racist, it couldn't possibly be a more dissimilar kind of story beyond the vague concept of a guy being real mad that his city sucks (in ultimately profoundly different ways) and... I guess vigilantism? Though I don't see any real commonality between what Travis does and Batman.

The Batman, and I don't mean this dismissively, is ultimately going to be a fun pulpy thriller. If you tried to actually make Batman literally feel like Taxi Driver you're gonna wind up with something like Aronofsky's Year One script which is absolutely hilarious because it is so clearly embarrassed to be a Batman story. Even then it will never actually feel like Taxi Driver because even the most realistic interpretation of Batman is a completely fantastical story.

Also when it comes to this bit I cannot agree at all with the idea that Reeves influences of more "serious material than comic book superheroes" are merely for "aesthetics". He has talked time and time again about how he wants the movie to connect with reality in clear ways, about how he wants to explore the ways in which Bruce Wayne is broken and the ways in which corruption manifests, and he's talked all about that in fairly serious ways. It doesn't mean it will be a carbon copy of Taxi Driver or Chinatown, or that it won't have all the classic Batman stuff, but from everything both Reeves and Pattinson have said it leads me to think they have bigger ambitions for this project than for it to just be a "fun pulpy thriller".

And granted the main reason I think this is because... look at Reeves last movie, man. He made a movie about talking apes. And he made it an Holocaust allegory with concentration camps. He made Schindler's List with a monkey. A monkey that on top of everything he made analogies to real life religious figures. That wasn't just "aesthetics", it served a very clear thematic purpose for what he wanted to say. I suspect the same thing will be true here in that the more serious stuff he's referencing is there with a deeper purpose.

Gotham's streets aren't filled with homeless people and decay just for the aesthetic of it, there's something Reeves intends to say when it comes to that, that relates directly to the real world. It's his style.

And I don't think any topic is too dark for it to work in a Batman story either. Look at Night Cries, an excellent and beautiful comic from the early 90s. It went darker than any Batman film will probably ever do and yet it still worked, was tasteful and quite emotional. Batman is great as a character because he and his world can accomodate themselves to the goofiest of interpretations but also to those that are darker and explore very intense themes. It can all work with the right execution because the character is so flexible.

 

[Revolverr]

THE BATMAN is an edgy, action-packed thriller that depicts Batman in his early years, struggling to balance rage with righteousness as he investigates a disturbing mystery that has terrorized Gotham. Robert Pattinson delivers a raw, intense portrayal of Batman as a disillusioned, desperate vigilante awakened by the realization that the anger consuming him makes him no better than the ruthless serial killer he’s hunting.

WarnerBros.co.uk | The Batman | Movies

 

[JubJub86]

If you can do it in True Detective, you can do it in Gotham City.

As far as I'm concerned this is supposed to be the grossest place you can possibly live in.

Worse than Cleveland?!

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I’m just glad we finally have a Batman director who doesn’t seem afraid to use Robin.

He’s my favorite DC character and I think Reeves will do him justice.

I hope Batgirl isn’t off limits because of the solo film.

 

[shauner111]

After all this Mad Hatter talk, an official synopsis is released today...wanna make a bet the "disturbing mystery" has to do with abuse of orphans and/or hospital patients?

 

[Eddie Dean]

It’s still a pg13 movie with Lego and hot wheels tie ins

 

[JubJub86]

.The mystery unveiled could just be how Shauner wears a wig and dances to ABBA in his downtime. *Shrugs*

 

[BatLobster]

I'm somewhat surprised how that synopsis kind of just spells out Batman's whole arc in the film.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Synopsis generally are bad anyways.

Also I didn’t read it.

 

[shauner111]

I’m sure you did.

 

[Mindreaper21]

After all this Mad Hatter talk, an official synopsis is released today...wanna make a bet the "disturbing mystery" has to do with abuse of orphans and/or hospital patients?

This would be interesting. Which also brings something else up that I saw.

Renewal is a Lie.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

I hope the rumors are true and my dream of seeing Robin onscreen again is granted! Been wanting to see Robin on the big screen again since 1997.

 

[Mindreaper21]

It’s still a pg13 movie with Lego and hot wheels tie ins

What’s your point? TDK had Joker putting a bomb in a man’s stomach and slicing a guy up like a pez dispenser then hanging him from the side of a building. Still sold toys didn’t it?

 

[shauner111]

You can release a disturbing movie with disturbing themes and still sell merch for kids. Look at Robocop, Terminator 2.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

The last live action Batman appearance we got was Batman saying to Joker “Make no mistake, I will ****ing kill you” LOL

 

[Eddie Dean]

The amount you guys want pedo stuff and rape in this is a bit weird ngl.

 

[Mindreaper21]

I hope the rumors are true and my dream of seeing Robin onscreen again is granted! Been wanting to see Robin on the big screen again since 1997.

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Laz, seeing as how you have Carrie Kelly for your avi, how would you feel if she was actually the first Robin and Dick had an alternative storyline that has him going straight to becoming Nightwing instead?