The Batman General News & Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Boom]

Those are fair points. At the same time, he is at the very least in somewhat of a strong position of his film having performed well critically, with fans and pretty well at the box office. If Batgirl was canned because it's as bad as the rumors are saying and the new leadership wanted to stop the bleeding on DC's inconsistent brand reputation, that maybe isn't a totally bad thing in terms of Reeves' own position. There is also the aspect of Alan Horn now having a seat at the table, someone who ran the studio during the The Dark Knight Trilogy days and understands first hand the value of having a strong solo Batman brand. Which I think should be common sense just from looking at the studio's own history, but can't take that for granted!

I can't claim to know what Reeves is feeling, but I think this was always the inherent risk of stepping into these waters in this day and age. I think objectively speaking, WB has a lot more to lose by allowing an overall successful relaunch of Batman to just fall apart (and all the embarrassment and brand damage that comes with that) vs. supporting it and letting it run its natural course with a creative vision behind it. That said, I do think Reeves should be prepared to adapt to a situation where spin-off shows are now off the table.

But here's the thing. The Batman's success is all well and good, but if I'm thinking about the big picture (the multi-billion-dollar-earning shared universe), I need Batman in that equation. And if I think the long-term reward far outweighs the immediate, then I can justify offering Reeves' Batman franchise up on a sacrificial pyre.

 

[BatLobster]

But here's the thing. The Batman's success is all well and good, but if I'm thinking about the big picture (the multi-billion-dollar-earning shared universe), I need Batman in that equation. If I think the long-term rewards outweigh the immediate, then I can easily see Reeves' Batman offered up on a sacrificial pyre.

It's too hard to say at this point. I mean, the studio is still going forward with Joker 2, so it seems like they're still in a place where they're comfortable with allowing different visions to co-exist. I kind of am putting Reeves' vision in the same bucket as Phillips' at the moment. Successful 'adult' takes on iconic characters that over here, while they are still trying to figure out a strategy to compete in a four quadrant "MCU level" over there. I think the multiverse angle is still in play. And if they want to look at Marvel, that concept is all the rage right now.

A lot of variables. Once again...one would hope they look at their own history, and realize that trying to force/rush a DC shared universe massively backfired in a way that they are still struggling to clean up the mess of. Maybe there's a way for the Reeves-verse to fit into a bigger picture, but I think they just need to let him tell his story first if that's ever going to happen. Unless Pattinson isn't as loyal to Reeves and is willing to suit up for any project because he just loves playing the character that much. In which case, yeah, then I would say Pattinson actually has more power than Reeves in the situation if the studio likes his Batman and wants him in other projects. I'm just going under the assumption that the two are aligned and a package deal right now.

But yeah, I mean to me all this DC Universe stuff is all talk until you actually put your cards on the table for what the hell you're doing with Superman. If you can't get even figure out how to get Superman to work, then what are you even doing talking about a DC extended universe and Justice League? I just hope they are taking a long view of this and not rushing to repeat the exact mistakes of last time.

 

[spideyfan77]

But here's the thing. The Batman's success is all well and good, but if I'm thinking about the big picture (the multi-billion-dollar-earning shared universe), I need Batman in that equation. And if I think the long-term reward far outweighs the immediate, then I can justify offering Reeves' Batman franchise up on a sacrificial pyre.

Then why is Joker moving ahead? What if that rebooted batman sucks? What if that rebooted universe sucks and you just lost out of a potential batman universe worth billions of dollars?

If Batman sucked, then yeah I get it. Plus you really do run into the issue of people sick of another Batman reboot. The other superheroes are fine but Batman would be tiring for a lot people.

 

[Boom]

Then why is Joker moving ahead?

The Joker in the context of a proper Batman movie/DC shared universe would only ever be a supporting role. Phoenix's Joker is so far removed from the source material that it being a standalone entity has basically zero consequence to any DCEU plans for Batman.

What if that rebooted batman sucks? What if that rebooted universe sucks and you just lost out of a potential batman universe worth billions of dollars?

I suppose that's the risk you take. All you can do is minimize the risk with lower budgets and "by the number" filmmakers. The sheer dumb luck of Iron Man's production aside, Marvel took very little risk with its Phase 1 films.

Just to be clear, I am in no way advocating or defending ANY of this. But damn near every move Zaslav has made since taking over is giving me serious pause. I genuinely do not believe anything is safe right now.

 

[BatsAndNights]

But here's the thing. The Batman's success is all well and good, but if I'm thinking about the big picture (the multi-billion-dollar-earning shared universe), I need Batman in that equation. And if I think the long-term reward far outweighs the immediate, then I can justify offering Reeves' Batman franchise up on a sacrificial pyre.

While possible, I don't see that happening right now. The Batman's success may have been more modest than other blockbusters surrounding it, but there 100% is long term potential for Reeves' Batman. 770 million, in 45 days and with a domestic gross that outranks a lot of its contemporaries. That is despite the movie not even being released in Russia and the fact that it might as well have not released in China. All The Batman needed was a longer release schedule and for the international market to be more profitable than it was in March 2022 and it would've (in my opinion) easily cleared 900 million, with a billion absolutely being a possibility. Furthermore, while The Batman had a budget of 185-200 million, there's a very real chance that this was substantially inflated by COVID and it would not surprise me at all if it turned out that without that, The Batman would've been made for 100 million as previously reported during early production. So The Batman 2 also has a chance to be made for potentially cheaper.

With that in mind, The Batman 2 absolutely has the potential to make money. Smoother production, an extended release schedule, exclusively in theatres, with a better international market? You'd be silly to not see the potential in that.

However, if Batman 2 doesn't live up to that, the future of the ReevesVerse is absolutely in trouble.

 

[The Lazarus Pit]

Our clown prince!

 

[dhandler01]

I'm wary of assuming what Reeves is thinking or feeling right now. I would say that if I were in his shoes, I'd have some very real concerns. I'm seeing movies pulled from theatrical release and stuck on a streaming service instead, with the filmmakers finding out the same day that the general public does. I'm seeing a film that is permanently vaulted for "tax purposes," with the filmmakers once again finding out the same day the general public does. I see a CEO that is very keen on getting this shared universe thing figured out, meanwhile I'm over here with my self-contained universe featuring DC's most profitable IP (hell, one of WBD's most profitable IPs).

The creatives are not being considered in these decisions at all, and they're not even afforded the basic respect of being told ahead of time that these decisions are being made. Is that an environment I myself would want to be in? Who's to say it doesn't happen to me next? Hell, Reeves' plans for expanding his Batman universe via spinoff shows are already in serious jeopardy (if they're not already canned behind the scenes), so it's possible he's already seeing himself affected in some capacity.

I don't know. The man himself said he doesn't need to this, back when negotiations first fell through. If working with this new ownership proves to be a bigger headache than it's worth, he walks. I 100% believe that. My question now is, do I have the confidence that ownership wouldn't let it get that far? It's extremely hard to say. Zaslav isn't playing around. You either play ball with him or you're out.

Well...and I mean no offense but...welcome to Hollywood? I get we are acting like this is unprecedented but it 100% is not and I guarantee Matt Reeves knows the score he has been around long enough.

He, James Wan and David Sandberg are probably the 3 most safe people on the DC side of the ledger when it comes to directors.

 

[dhandler01]

But here's the thing. The Batman's success is all well and good, but if I'm thinking about the big picture (the multi-billion-dollar-earning shared universe), I need Batman in that equation. And if I think the long-term reward far outweighs the immediate, then I can justify offering Reeves' Batman franchise up on a sacrificial pyre.

Only if you assume you can replace it. Batman 2 is likely to be ready to shoot before the new and improved DCEU can get off the ground. Unless they plan to release no DC films until the new universe comes out that decision makes no sense.

And why are you assuming Matt wouldn't want to be a part of in some capacity anyways? Just because he didn't want to be tied to Batfleck doesn't mean he is against a shared universe as his franchise continues.

 

[antsman41]

Only if you assume you can replace it. Batman 2 is likely to be ready to shoot before the new and improved DCEU can get off the ground. Unless they plan to release no DC films until the new universe comes out that decision makes no sense.

And why are you assuming Matt wouldn't want to be a part of in some capacity anyways? Just because he didn't want to be tied to Batfleck doesn't mean he is against a shared universe as his franchise continues.

He has stated so… his Batman universe is deep enough with the possibility of growing a Batfamily and the Bat rogue gallery.

Matt is interested in Bruce’s mind and character… you lose that by involving gods and superheroes.

 

[I Am The Knight]

The Batman v Superman: Dawn of Fleck.

 

[Invader Joker]

But here's the thing. The Batman's success is all well and good, but if I'm thinking about the big picture (the multi-billion-dollar-earning shared universe), I need Batman in that equation. And if I think the long-term reward far outweighs the immediate, then I can justify offering Reeves' Batman franchise up on a sacrificial pyre.

Just a quick reminder that Zaslav was the one that greenlit The Batman 2.

 

[dhandler01]

He has stated so… his Batman universe is deep enough with the possibility of growing a Batfamily and the Bat rogue gallery.

Matt is interested in Bruce’s mind and character… you lose that by involving gods and superheroes.

He also i believe said nothing prevents other heroes existing within his universe at some point.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

 

[Doctor Jones]

 

[Boom]

Well consider me placated!

 

[WayneMB]

we're safe. lets go

 

[Jermobooka]

feels great, man.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

 

[J.Drangal]

Well, he could still have some "ideas" for where the franchise should go !

 

[Gothamsknight]

Would not be shocked if they make Pattinson's Batman the main DCEU version.

 

[I Am The Knight]

What is the plan? Make good movies?

 

[emc5466]

Frosty from Collider says the plan is for all of the DC movies to connect from here on out, just like Marvel.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Frosty from Collider says the plan is for all of the DC movies to connect from here on out, just like Marvel.

So whatever Reeves has planned is gonna be forced to connect to the larger world I guess

 

[Eddie Dean]

lol you just got good news everyone calm down

 

[WatchProtect]

I wouldn't be automatically out if Reeves connected his universe with other films (I'm probably one of the few who genuinely wouldn't mind)

But it sounds like they're completely starting over. So let's say this Ten year plan officially started in 2025, they may just let Reeves finish his trilogy, around 2028, and then reboot Batman in a VASTLY different tone (Neal Adams-esque swashbuckling action hero Batman) in 2030-2031 as part of the new DC Cinematic Universe. Which besides the rather quick turnaround, I'm all for.