The Batman General News & Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Iceman]

@Boom Reeves probably won’t do that. But that’s alright because all you need to do is create a trilogy with Matt that is grounded, then do World’s Finest/Justice League. After the Steppenwolf/Darkseid stuff you don’t need to bring in some alien god for the first DCU team-ups. When Battinson comes back to a fourth solo years later (if that were to happen) it doesn’t need to be with Reeves. And you can bring a supernatural villain into Gotham.

I also like the idea of keeping the solos realistic and scaled down with each threat while blowing up the cross-overs with fantastical threats.

That's how I prefer Batman.

 

[shauner111]

What makes you think he thinks it is easy? They havent even started part 1 yet. (not Phase 1 Part 1) Doing it this way is the antithesis of easy. He is literally writing off films to try and get back to a decent starting position and is looking for someone to create something new. The easy way would be to try and fix what is broken not burn down the house and start over. Hell it would be easier to just bring back Snyder...

I think he knows it is going to be a huge problem and likely a costly one with a lot of bad press to start. People like Walter Hamada and Emmerich thought it was easy and well...

Just burn the house down. Start over. I don’t think it’s difficult at all. Focus on making good solo films with a voice. Each has its own voice. Then the audience reaction will tell you when it’s time to hit the green light on the first crossover. Do it carefully.

 

[shauner111]

Honestly, its going to take a lot of time for these movies to be done….you could literally reboot the DC universe with solo movies for superman, green lantern, wonder woman, aquaman, and flash. Then do the batman reboot that is connected after those solo movies leading into justice league. That is like 10+ years to do. Reeves and pattinson will be done by then. I think Zaslav just wants to have at least some movies to come out for DC that are clearly not part of the universe to make money while he sets up the connected universe.

Let reeves and pattinson do their movies then once finished. Start fresh with new batman for the rebooted universe.

I don’t mind a young 2030’s Batman reboot that is connected from the get-go to a DCU. But there’s a way to do it with Pattinson too. This trilogy (if it gets to 3 movies) will be over in 6 years. Rob will be 41 and probably playing a Batman who is still in his 30’s (and probably still looking like he’s in his 30’s). Reeves will be done then you’re off to the races to do what you want with Rob. A Superman and Batman who are in their mid to late 30’s by the time they hook up (for a lack of a better term).

 

[dhandler01]

Honestly, its going to take a lot of time for these movies to be done….you could literally reboot the DC universe with solo movies for superman, green lantern, wonder woman, aquaman, and flash. Then do the batman reboot that is connected after those solo movies leading into justice league. That is like 10+ years to do. Reeves and pattinson will be done by then. I think Zaslav just wants to have at least some movies to come out for DC that are clearly not part of the universe to make money while he sets up the connected universe.

Let reeves and pattinson do their movies then once finished. Start fresh with new batman for the rebooted universe.

Yeah...I mean realistically even if they hired their "Kevin Feige" tomorrow (god I hate that phrase) a new universe couldn't realistically get off the ground til well after Batman 2. Even if AQ2 is the "last" film of this universe that likely is pushing its date to next year and Zazlov isnt likely to do anything that could likely hamper a possible billion dollar film. If there is a full reboot happening without Momoa they wont even announce anything until after his film is out of theaters.

Personally, Momoa is the only one I keep. His film barely mentions anything from the old universe (depending on the Batfleck cameo in AQ2 obviously) so if they start other franchises alongside they can make it work.

Battinson...we will see. The character is so new we dont really know what is and is not possible yet.

 

[dhandler01]

Just burn the house down. Start over. I don’t think it’s difficult at all. Focus on making good solo films with a voice. Each has its own voice. Then the audience reaction will tell you when it’s time to hit the green light on the first crossover. Do it carefully.

The burning down is easy...rebuilding everything is hard. Dont get me wrong I am glad they are doing it but Batlobster seems to be implying (if I am wrong I apologize BL) that Zazlov thinks this will be easy and I would bet my non-burned down house he doesn't. I mean if he thinks the Batgirl fallout is bad (and honestly I expected worse) imagine the fallout when he basically says "starting in year 202x we start again!". Yeah he will get some good nerd press but there is a lot of fans of these itineration's of the characters and there will be blowback. Then all eyes on who he hires.

This is going to be a long hard process even before the films are pitched and I guarantee he knows that.

 

[shauner111]

Marvel made it look easy because it is. WB are the ones making it look hard. That’s because the old regime are idiots. Never put anything into the hands of an idiot, they’ll make it all look like rocket science.

 

[Boom]

Eh, you know the adage. If it was easy everybody would be doing it.

 

[BatsAndNights]

I don’t mind a young 2030’s Batman reboot that is connected from the get-go to a DCU. But there’s a way to do it with Pattinson too. This trilogy (if it gets to 3 movies) will be over in 6 years. Rob will be 41 and probably playing a Batman who is still in his 30’s (and probably still looking like he’s in his 30’s). Reeves will be done then you’re off to the races to do what you want with Rob. A Superman and Batman who are in their mid to late 30’s by the time they hook up (for a lack of a better term).

And that would genuinely be perfect. You don't do World's Finest until both Batman and Superman are in their prime. Because that's where you can further develop them as characters with that crossover that you can't do with another solo movie

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I can assure you that Pattinson isn’t committed to the grounded approach though. The producer even said if it was up to Rob there would be supernatural stuff all over these movies.

Yeah, I mean I can totally see a producer selling Rob on a movie where a “normal man” like Bruce Wayne walks shoulder to shoulder with virtual Gods, and earns their respect. I think Rob would be very interested in something like that. I’d certainly love to see it!

 

[GothamCity]

Well, if he's open to it, is one less obstacle.

Would be great if goes more supernaturel actually.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

@Boom
I also like the idea of keeping the solos realistic and scaled down with each threat while blowing up the cross-overs with fantastical threats.

Exactly. Just like in the comics. It’s not unusual to have Batman solving grounded murders in his own book and that same month have a Justice League issue with Batman helping to save the Universe. No reason why that can’t work in the live action movies as well.

 

[BatLobster]

What makes you think he thinks it is easy? They havent even started part 1 yet. (not Phase 1 Part 1) Doing it this way is the antithesis of easy. He is literally writing off films to try and get back to a decent starting position and is looking for someone to create something new. The easy way would be to try and fix what is broken not burn down the house and start over. Hell it would be easier to just bring back Snyder...

I think he knows it is going to be a huge problem and likely a costly one with a lot of bad press to start. People like Walter Hamada and Emmerich thought it was easy and well...

I'm not saying he thinks it's easy. I'm mainly saying I hope he doesn't. Because I still think it's a fundamentally a creative challenge, not simply a business one, which is why hearing this high level stuff from an executive doesn't really move the needle much for me. It sounds great in theory, but it's all just posturing for the shareholders until you actually prove that you have a new take on Superman that works, you have filmmakers locked in who all align and collaborate, ideally you have someone like a Fiege (forgive me) and/or a braintrust of amazing storytellers with passion for the material leading the way creatively.

I just think all the best DC movies have generally come from filmmakers approaching the studio and not the other way around. Some exceptions, but generally speaking. Sure, you can say WB approached Reeves, but he quickly turned the tables on that and wasn't going to let them dictate the terms. Once it becomes more studio-driven is where you often start running into trouble. So that's where the pause I have comes in. Because the shared universe model is inherently studio-driven.

Zavlav seems to be showing some solid leadership and communicating that he knows what he wants and that he envisions a certain standard of quality from DC films. Not a bad thing. It's just not the same thing as showing that he actually knows how to achieve that, which is still a big question mark.

 

[shauner111]

Gonna be a long one but here goes it.

Momoa's last Aquaman film will be for 2023 or 2026. The sequel only took 5 years because of covid and the Justice League nonsense, otherwise it would have been out by 2021. So if this Wan sequel is just as successful as the first then we'll see the end of that trilogy by 2026.

You're not getting a Superman reboot off the ground until 2025. I'm guessing it comes out the same year as The Batman sequel. As for Wonder Woman? That's out by 2024...before Superman is ever rebooted. Before the next Batman.

What I'm saying is, there's no rush. Momoa will likely be finished by 2026 the very latest. And guess what? That is still years away from a potential Battinson/Supes meet up. There is no need to make another Aquaman film until DEEP into the 2030's. Hell, a World's Finest wouldn't even happen until around 2030 anyhow.

All you gotta do is make a John Stewart Green Lantern film sometime this decade. Even if it only comes out in 7 years, it'll work well with the schedule. There's no rush.

Flash? Let this movie come out next year and take a breather. Let ppl sit on it, brush it off, love it, hate it...whatever. Build a new Barry Allen or Wally West Flash movie sometime before the decade ends.

Back to Superman. You make this new Supes flick the exact same way Reeves made The Batman. An isolated Superman story made by a passionate writer/director (or at least a writer and director duo that have good chemistry and have a vision). If it's successful, certainly more than Man of Steel, then you greenlight a sequel just like what's happening currently with Reeves. Now you're talking a 2025 debut and a 2028 sequel (arriving around the time of Reeves' Bat finale).

Baby steps. Easy, simple, meticulous. NOW we are living in the year 2029-2030 and the DC universe is about to take off. Something happens within the story that calls for Battinson to meet with this new Superman. They're at the right age for this to go down, the audience is ready for it and have had enough time away from the old "DCEU".

New decade, new rules. You've earned it even more than the Avengers. An even longer setup for a Justice League. Folks talk about how the MCU took their time and I disagree. It only looks that way because there was nothing to compare it to at the time and then the DCEU showed us what it's like to REALLY rush it. Now look at the MCU. They blew their load too soon and now we have confused mediocrity. If you do it my way, the rubber hand is stretched out even further and the take off has even more force. Which will lead to a healthier universe that isn't just a 5-10 year fad. That staying power could potentially lead to Reeves and Pattinson reuniting when Rob is in his 50's. Imagine a better executed variation on Dark Knight Returns? With years of emotion tied to both Batman and Superman + aged 40 something Zoe's and Barry's.

"It's a nice dream" yeah but it can be done easily. Just don't be a doofus.

 

[Boom]

That is an unknown right now. When exactly does this 10-year plan kick off? Are we on the clock now, or does it start after The Flash (2023)?

This whole thing is moot if the "new DCEU" doesn't even start in earnest until 2025/2026.

 

[TheGDBatman]

That is an unknown right now. When exactly does this 10-year plan kick off? Are we on the clock now, or does it start after The Flash (2023)?

This whole thing is moot if the "new DCEU" doesn't even start in earnest until 2025/2026.

My gut feeling is that they'll ride out the current movies and then start from the ground up after that (so 2025/26 for the start of a new universe). I don't see the sense in trying to work these movies into a new continuity/universe..... and it seems like whatever reset they were planning to do with The Flash has fallen apart. Better to cut ties with all the problems of the "DCEU" and start anew in the future.

 

[shauner111]

My gut feeling is that they'll ride out the current movies and then start from the ground up after that (so 2025/26 for the start of a new universe). I don't see the sense in trying to work these movies into a new continuity/universe..... and it seems like whatever reset they were planning to do with The Flash has fallen apart. Better to cut ties with all the problems of the "DCEU" and start anew in the future.

They’ll let Wan and Jenkins finish and then by 2025-2026 they’ll just have their Batman and Superman as the pillars of a new DCU.

Can we do away with this “DCEU” for good? It has never rolled off the tongue right.

 

[shauner111]

There’s no way a mid 50’s Momoa will be their Aquaman lol. And he’s too tied to Ezra, Ben and Gal at this point. You have to hard reboot this.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

Well, Walter might not be out the door.

 

[dhandler01]

I'm not saying he thinks it's easy. I'm mainly saying I hope he doesn't. Because I still think it's a fundamentally a creative challenge, not simply a business one, which is why hearing this high level stuff from an executive doesn't really move the needle much for me. It sounds great in theory, but it's all just posturing for the shareholders until you actually prove that you have a new take on Superman that works, you have filmmakers locked in who all align and collaborate, ideally you have someone like a Fiege (forgive me) and/or a braintrust of amazing storytellers with passion for the material leading the way creatively.

I just think all the best DC movies have generally come from filmmakers approaching the studio and not the other way around. Some exceptions, but generally speaking. Sure, you can say WB approached Reeves, but he quickly turned the tables on that and wasn't going to let them dictate the terms. Once it becomes more studio-driven is where you often start running into trouble. So that's where the pause I have comes in. Because the shared universe model is inherently studio-driven.

Zavlav seems to be showing some solid leadership and communicating that he knows what he wants and that he envisions a certain standard of quality from DC films. Not a bad thing. It's just not the same thing as showing that he actually knows how to achieve that, which is still a big question mark.

Gotcha

 

[BatsAndNights]

They’ll let Wan and Jenkins finish and then by 2025-2026 they’ll just have their Batman and Superman as the pillars of a new DCU.

Can we do away with this “DCEU” for good? It has never rolled off the tongue right.

Wanna know the funny thing?

That name literally started as a joke.

'DC Extended Universe' Started as a Joke Name Made Up by a Journalist

Internally, the DCEU has never been the official name for DC's live action movie universe. The name was first coined by a dude literally making fun of the fact that BvS was DC's attempt to start their own cinematic universe in the wake of the MCU's success.

The DCEU is (in the least hyperbolic terms possible) literally a joke.

 

[Eddie Dean]

There’s no way a mid 50’s Momoa will be their Aquaman lol. And he’s too tied to Ezra, Ben and Gal at this point. You have to hard reboot this.

I feel like he's the most likely to stay tbh. He'll be in good shape for 30 years, Aquaman was a huge hit and Momoa is still tied to WB with Dune.

 

[dhandler01]

That is an unknown right now. When exactly does this 10-year plan kick off? Are we on the clock now, or does it start after The Flash (2023)?

This whole thing is moot if the "new DCEU" doesn't even start in earnest until 2025/2026.

It will start when they have a leader.

 

[dhandler01]

Well, Walter might not be out the door.

 

[shauner111]

I feel like he's the most likely to stay tbh. He'll be in good shape for 30 years, Aquaman was a huge hit and Momoa is still tied to WB with Dune.

Dune will be finished shooting this year and released next year. They’re not gonna use Momoa unless the idea in 10 years is to have the Trinity meet an old timer Aquaman by the sea with a big grey beard or if they have terrible plans to make a Justice League this decade.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Momoa will be the lead of the Dune franchise going forward if they faithfully adapt the books.