The Batman Likes and Dislikes.

[souperman]

Explain to me how he could've defused the situation non-violently.

Also idk why you keep trying to compare between this and BvS when I've literally never done so other than when replying to some of your points lmao

Nobody here's trying to use this to talk **** about BvS or Snyder or was doing so until you brought it up so idk what you're trying to say with these random comparisons

As I said above and YOU suggested.

...stopping and letting a well known easily identified criminal personality to escape and being the worlds greatest detective could have easily found him again having a drink in his secret hideaway just like he did with Selina?

Others compared to BvS and I am consolidating answers. And I think you posted that great BvS scene?

 

[DeadlyWest]

As I said above and YOU suggested.

...stopping and letting a well known easily identified criminal personality to escape and being the worlds greatest detective could have easily found him again having a drink in his secret hideaway just like he did with Selina?

Why would Batman stop? Up until brake checking a truck, all he does is PIT another SUV (which frankly given the crash Penguin survives I'm inclined to believe the people inside were fine)

It's not like Penguin threatened to cause the accident if Batman didn't stop giving chase. He did it out of nowhere.

Also you're assuming Penguin would just go back to the Iceberg Lounge, when he could also go into hiding and that's their only lead on Riddler (at that point) gone. With that possibility, Batman letting Penguin get away makes absolutely no sense.

 

[souperman]

Why would Batman stop? Up until brake checking a truck, all he does is PIT another SUV (which frankly given the crash Penguin survives I'm inclined to believe the people inside were fine)

It's not like Penguin threatened to cause the accident if Batman didn't stop giving chase. He did it out of nowhere.

Also you're assuming Penguin would just go back to the Iceberg Lounge, when he could also go into hiding and that's their only lead on Riddler (at that point) gone. With that possibility, Batman letting Penguin get away makes absolutely no sense.

Are you suggesting that IF Penguin got away the greatest detective "Batman" could never find him again.?

 

[DeadlyWest]

Are you suggesting that IF Penguin got away the greatest detective "Batman" could never find him again.?

No, but I am saying that would take time. And given Riddler's been murking people practically daily, that isn't time Batman necessarily has

 

[souperman]

Batman simply couldn't follow him till he stopped and than arrest him...?

Of course not! It's not exciting and cinematic!

 

[DeadlyWest]

Batman simply couldn't follow him till he stopped and than arrest him...?

Of course not! It's not exciting and cinematic!

That's literally what he was trying to do

Then Penguin brake checked a truck and all bets were off

 

[souperman]

My Point is and always was the use of the very same logic and examples to both defend and condemn scenes or character interpretations to suit an individuals taste or viewpoint. Cuts both ways.

These films are supposed to be entertainment. Fantastical destruction and violence lived out in film is better than in real life. It's suspension of reality. I accept and welcome all versions and interpretations. Just some are better executed than others. Like I said. Th Batman wasn't terrible, just not great...for me.

 

[souperman]

That's literally what he was trying to do

Then Penguin brake checked a truck and all bets were off

How do you figure that because he "brake checked" the truck "all bets were off" ?

I have heard arguments against BvS Batman that "Batman" is so smart he can always find an alternative...so all bets off when Martha is going to be fried too?

 

[shauner111]

As I said, I get all the soul searching reasoning and excuses. It's a movie.

Pattinson is just not imposing or intimidating as Batman IMO.

BTW...
You know what happens when Bruce Lee hits Andre the Giant...

Nothing...

; )

glad you liked the film.

For me his first two scenes made him look like the most intimidating and imposing Batman in history. The moment where the thugs run off and he’s just standing there and turns to the final thug...all he does is stare at him...and I was sold that this Batman has topped Keaton, Bale and Affleck in that imposing/intimidating department. To each their own, but he did it for me. ESPECIALLY in the mayor’s house. The way he moved. God it’s glorious.

7 times! wow.
I was not criticizing the violence at all.
I didn't say I SAW dozens. I said he knew dozens were being seriously injured and killed. Fireball explosive car crashes. It is implied to any rational person.

Feel free to give the benefit of doubt. It's a movie. I don't mind seeing the destruction and mayhem. It's called movie action. Escapism. I have zero problem with it.

...Please? you say...

Your assumption is erroneous. I'm not comparing the two "different versions" and saying they are intended to be equal. Just noting that some people tend to accept the very same violence and split hairs to justify their own view points. That's ok too.

In BvS Batman was disillusioned and damaged by that point in his career. The BvS Batman was taken from The Dark Knight graphic novel. It was a different story and world. I accept both versions for the film makers individual visions.

I accept and judge each story and film for what they are, not what I prefer or wish they were. Did they achieve their goals. Were they compelling and exciting and believable.

In BvS, since the basis of the character WAS from the graphic novel and depicted as such ...it succeeded.

At the Comicon intro tease of BvS where Lennix read from the GN and the room cheered, it was known that THAT was going to be the Batman Snyder was brining to the screen. Not Adam West or Keaton or Bale. It should have been no surprise.

Again, I think The Batman concept could have worked better. Pattinson just didn't do it for me,

Except Batman doesn’t kill in that book. All Zack took from it was the suit designs and the very basic concept of Bruce being older (even that was changed from a 55 year old coming out of retirement to a 45 year old who is still active). So in a nutshell, nothing really came from Returns other than two bat-suit designs.

 

[DeadlyWest]

How do you figure that because he "brake checked" the truck "all bets were off" ?

I have heard arguments against BvS Batman that "Batman" is so smart he can always find an alternative...so all bets off when Martha is going to be fried too?

All bets were off because Penguin just did something borderline suicidal which at absolute minimum just severely injured a lot of people therefore proving that Penguin wasn't going to just give up and had to be physically stopped with force.

Also I'm not talking about BvS. I don't care about BvS and frankly I'm sick and tired of talking about that movie. It's 5 years old at this point and any "discussions" we could have has been done to death and is a waste of time. You could not be barking up a more wrong tree.

 

[souperman]

For me his first two scenes made him look like the most intimidating and imposing Batman in history. The moment where the thugs run off and he’s just standing there and turns to the final thug...all he does is stare at him...and I was sold that this Batman has topped Keaton, Bale and Affleck in that imposing/intimidating department. To each their own, but he did it for me. ESPECIALLY in the mayor’s house. The way he moved. God it’s glorious.

I'm glad you enjoyed it!

I suppose you are referring to the scene when Batman confronts the street urchin street gang and beats up Crutchy?

(I am teasing you)

Good set up. ...and as I said earlier, IF they had kept the story OLDER style and not had real machine gun toting assassins' going against THIS Batman, I think it would have worked better for me. Against "normal" everyday criminals this Batman works fine.

I didn't find Rob more intimidating than Bale or Affleck at all. Maybe Keaton. But Keatons Batman was a bit more sadisticly sarcastic or sarcastically sadistic.

As in a different post, BvS was "inspired" by DKR and others in that vein, not just the suits but the grizzled attitude. Disillusioned. Batman with his boot on Superman's throat. Out of control Batman.

It has been debated if Batman shoots the guy in the head. It's how the reader reads it.

 

[souperman]

All bets were off because Penguin just did something borderline suicidal which at absolute minimum just severely injured a lot of people therefore proving that Penguin wasn't going to just give up and had to be physically stopped with force.

Also I'm not talking about BvS. I don't care about BvS and frankly I'm sick and tired of talking about that movie. It's 5 years old at this point and any "discussions" we could have has been done to death and is a waste of time. You could not be barking up a more wrong tree.

Same argument and reasoning. Same answer. All bad guys need to be stopped. Beating to a pulp as in The Batman is not ideal Batman behavior either. It's excessive. I don't mind it. But again the arguments and logic should be applied evenly across the board.

You can't discuss the new without referencing what came before.

Oh well...

 

[shauner111]

Nah he doesn’t kill in Returns. He literally calls ppl cowards if they use guns.

 

[Lautox]

Men fight with their heads

 

[souperman]

Men fight with their heads

you mean head butts?

 

[Lautox]

you mean head butts?

Yeah why not

 

[souperman]

Nah he doesn’t kill in Returns. He literally calls ppl cowards if they use guns.

Looks bloody to me.
Keep em guessing.

Not the real point but is open to interpretation. The fact that we and others have discussed it for years shows how individuals react to the same events.

 

[DeadlyWest]

View attachment 55190

Looks bloody to me.
Keep em guessing.

Not the real point but is open to interpretation. The fact that we and others have discussed it for years shows how individuals react to the same events.

Then why did Jay Oliva (someone who has offered more than his fair share of support for BvS, Snyder and Affleck) do this when adapting it



Plus, the new Commissioner lists all of Batman's crimes once Gordon retires and not once does she mention murder, manslaughter or anything similar. It's only after he's thought to have killed the Joker that that charge is added. It's pretty safe to say him killing the goon there is not Miller's intention

 

[souperman]

Then why did Jay Oliva (someone who has offered more than his fair share of support for BvS, Snyder and Affleck) do this when adapting it



Plus, the new Commissioner lists all of Batman's crimes once Gordon retires and not once does she mention murder, manslaughter or anything similar. It's only after he's thought to have killed the Joker that that charge is added. It's pretty safe to say him killing the goon there is not Miller's intention

we all know why he did it.

of course it wasn’t his intention but it was implied by not implicitly showing it like Oliva. By leaving it ambiguous he creates wonder and discussion.

And this discussion is exactly what I was saying.
Different interpretations.
Some say murder some say self defense.
potato tomato. as long as it entertains.

you wanna pick nits? COME ON! Let’s pick nits!

 

[BMW 224]

Before the movie came out I posted concern about the car chase as you can see on the beginning of the thread.


I really don't see how it's comparable at all to BVS Car Chase after seeing the film.

Penguin caused all the destruction Batman did everything he could.

The only thing that was his fault was starting the car chase but that's reasonable because he didn't want Selina or Gordon to die.



This is the first time in the history of live action Batman films that Batman wasn't the cause of collateral damage in a chase scene.

Even the dark knight trilogy (which I love) is guilty of that.


I really don't see how it's a double standard to Batfleck when even before the movie one of the first discussions in this thread was about the possibility of this being the flaw of this movie.

Batfleck killed people in the car chase love it hate whatever it happened.

Battinson didn't.

Doesn't mean you can't like Batfleck more that's completely up to your and your opinion.

But really this comes down to objective facts.

 

[KGBANE]

This is Donnie Yen, a high profile martial arts actor.

While highly athletic, his physique is arguably most comparable to that of Pattinson (if not maybe a touch slimmer)

View attachment 55150

Donnie Yen once sent 8 men to the hospital for harassing his girlfriend in the 90s. Not because he was buff, but because he knew how to fight from years of martial arts experience.

As for the car chase, sure, Batman was reckless and obsessive in that scene. Reeves himself even says that and explains why


But to say that Battinson continuing to chase Penguin and Penguin doing something borderline suicidal is in any way even comparable to Batfleck literally turning people into mince meat with miniguns on the Batmobile and Batwing is flat out silly.

We are using the same standards for all films. And it's not even comparable.

I wish The Batman had better fights is my only problem. I think Rob had the body for fighting,it was just the fights go from good to mid to me.

 

[KGBANE]

I loved this movie! My biggest dislike:1. is The fights were too short to weak(After Daredevil, Winter Soldier and Shang Chi. There's no excuse for mid fights). 2.The best parts of the movie were in the trailer or in clips.3 The Riddler acting crazy and yelling was reminding me of Lex in BVS.4 Catwoman falling for Batman felt force. 5 Gordon voice. 6 Alfred felt wasted and wasn't emotional invested in the character after he got blown up. I'm sure my problems will be fixed in the sequel

 

[shauner111]

So suddenly Jeffrey Wright will speak differently in the sequel lol

 

[Ryan]

I loved this movie! My biggest dislike:1. is The fights were too short to weak(After Daredevil, Winter Soldier and Shang Chi. There's no excuse for mid fights). 2.The best parts of the movie were in the trailer or in clips.3 The Riddler acting crazy and yelling was reminding me of Lex in BVS.4 Catwoman falling for Batman felt force. 5 Gordon voice. 6 Alfred felt wasted and wasn't emotional invested in the character after he got blown up. I'm sure my problems will be fixed in the sequel

I'm with you on the Riddler. More and more I watch the film, the more Penguin's nuances are growing on me and I feel he's the stand out. I still think the most chilling Riddler scenes are actually without Dano....the cellphone ring....the computer screen conversation....love the little beeps after each question mark.

 

[craigaat]

I'm with you on the Riddler. More and more I watch the film, the more Penguin's nuances are growing on me and I feel he's the stand out. I still think the most chilling Riddler scenes are actually without Dano....the cellphone ring....the computer screen conversation....love the little beeps after each question mark.

I thought the scene in Arkham was pretty bad, like Dano was trying but not quite pulling it off.

Penguin definitely the stand out.