The Batman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man

[Herofan]

If you liked The Batman, or even if you yourself didn't, why do you think it succeeded and was embraced while The Amazing Spider-Man and The Amazing Spider-Man 2 did not and were not? With both following up a recent liked version and having a moodier, less pure version of the hero, less-previously-focused on villains, pretty much darker tone? And TASM being rejected being kind of remake-y and TASM2 also while having a new story albeit with some previously seen characters?

I thought there was a lot of resemblance between Pattinson and Garfield in how they looked and also acted and what the filmmakers seemed to be trying to go for.

Also was the mixed reaction to rejection of TASM and the liking for intermediately released Homecoming a big part of most viewers thinking we don't need and *should not have* another origin, we already know it, better to make it about the hero early on but not brand-new? But TASM2 also being rejected does point to it wasn't just the too-soon-reboot/kind of remake aspect people disliked, with that it was more claims there were too many villains but then The Batman succeeded with having Riddler, Penguin, Falcone and, while not a villain, also costumed antihero Catwoman.

 

[Boy Scout]

I like ASM better than most but TB takes this one easily.

 

[Frodo]

 

[Spider-Fan83]

I like this comparison...

they both suffered from trying too hard to differentiate themselves from previous versions... to the point where they stray from the characters core values a bit

tho, my name might suggest a bias

I'm still going with, The Amazing Spider-man

 

[psylockolussus]

None. But if I have to pick, The Batman. The movie is long though and puts me to sleep.

 

[Gothamsknight]

The Batman easily

 

[Detective Conan]

I like this comparison...

they both suffered from trying too hard to differentiate themselves from previous versions... to the point where they stray from the characters core values a bit

tho, my name might suggest a bias

I'm still going with, The Amazing Spider-man

That’s interesting… I can see this for ASM but I don’t know if Batman has this? What part of The Batman did you feel strayed a bit from the character’s core values?

 

[The Joker]

The Batman by a mile. I loathe the TASM movies.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

in general, I'd even say TAS being considered un-successful is a matter of opinion/prospective

I feel its only in retrospect that people think of this movie that way

and people meme about him being the lesser of the Spider-men

yes, being a reboot didn't sit well with some in the fan community, and certainly created a divide.... but this was more about people being against a reboot in general, not about anything in the movie itself (the Tobey purest would have hated on this movie no matter how good it was) it had potential... an unfortunately the sequel didn't live up to that potential, and that's why I believe people think of this as a failed franchise

but, it made good numbers(for its time), decent reviews, got green lite for a sequel

never got a chance for the 3rd movie to possibly redeem any of that potential
(but by that time its was already in the works to be rebooted, yet again, in the MCU)

so, as a franchise, yes, I could see... but, TAS on its own I still like

That’s interesting… I can see this for ASM but I don’t know if Batman has this? What part of The Batman did you feel strayed a bit from the character’s core values?

"values" was maybe the wrong term... I guess mostly just that this Batman was more punch first (punch a few more times) ask questions rarely ever... instead of a more well researched before acting, back up plans, for his back up plans, take on the character

 

[Detective Conan]

"values" was maybe the wrong term... I guess mostly just that this Batman was more punch first (punch a few more times) ask questions rarely ever... instead of a more well researched before acting, back up plans, for his back up plans, take on the character

Well, to be fair, Batman in that movie is a younger wet-behind-the-years version who’s still figuring out this crimefighting thing out. The methodical, well researched shrewd tactician is a more of a older Batman at his prime thing.

 

[Herofan]

The Batman by a mile. I loathe the TASM movies.

But why (either view and the difference)? If they had similar challenges, goals, styles and/or results (even given the differences between TASM and TASM2, with TB sharing similarities with both)? Or do you disagree that the similarities were really close or meaningful or unique?

 

[Herofan]

That’s interesting… I can see this for ASM but I don’t know if Batman has this? What part of The Batman did you feel strayed a bit from the character’s core values?

I don't think Bruce Wayne should ever say that "What I'm doing," crime fighting, is his family's legacy and he doesn't care about their business or their legacy aside from just him being Batman.

 

[Pennywise]

The Batman, enough said!

Was so bored watching ASM 1 and 2, aside from a couple moments here and there.

 

[Bayne]

I would say both films are similar in that they both suffer from a feeling of being too familiar and too 'been there, done that'. However, there's really no denying that The Batman is just a much better made film in general.

In particular I would point to the heavily underwhelming Lizard, the laughably stupid attempt to convince anyone that Andrew Garfield was a teenager, the utterly useless and universally disliked mystery of Peter's parents, and the almost sadly transparant attempt to find a way to say 'with great power comes great responsibility' without actually coming out and saying it as just a few of the major examples why ASM was not a great movie.

It wasn't horrible. I like it better than all the Raimi films, actually. But it has a lot of issues in the writing, direction, conception, etc, far beyond any issues The Batman has.

 

[Deck Rickard]

LOL, you should have included a poll so The Batman could win by 1,000 votes.

 

[Filmfreak]

I don't adore The Batman like others do and I admit I quite like the first Amazing Spider-Man movie, but it's definitely the former.

 

[metaphysician]

Very simple: Because The Batman was a good movie, while Amazing Spider-man was not.

*cough*

 

[Deck Rickard]

This reminds me of that time someone made a Black Panther vs. Man of Steel thread.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

To start with, from a production standpoint (sets, costumes, cinematography, etc), The Batman simply looks a hell of a lot better.

Beyond that, while they are both reboots, The Batman went out and tried to do something new, differentiating it from previous versions. Much like Burton, Nolan, and even Schumacher left their own distinctive marks on the films, Reeves did as well. ASM made a colossal mistake by redoing the origin. We had already seen it, and relatively recently. And it makes up a good chunk of the story. A few changes like swapping MJ for Gwen and Norman for Connors wasn’t nearly enough to prevent it from seeming stale and derivative.

Finally, regarding the characters themselves, Batman is mostly a dark, gloomy character. There are exceptions like West, but that’s the popular portrayal today. Spider-Man is more of an upbeat kid-friendly character. His basic story is also that he’s a nerd that gains powers, let’s it go to his head, regrets it when Ben dies as a result, then learns with great power comes yadda yadda yadda, all of which is basically bungled. He’s already too cool to start, he doesn’t come across as particularly smart, and he seems to learn nothing from Ben’s death. In short, I’d say ASM misses the mark with the core essence of the Spider-Man character far more than The Batman does.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

That’s interesting… I can see this for ASM but I don’t know if Batman has this? What part of The Batman did you feel strayed a bit from the character’s core values?

The main issue I had is that I had trouble believing in his relationship with Alfred because it is so underdeveloped. It felt like we were supposed to care about Alfred because we care about him in other portrayals, but that didn’t work because those were a different version of the character.

But that’s not really quite the same thing as straying from the character’s core values.

 

[metaphysician]

I would actually argue that a big part of the problem with TASM isn't that it was too samey, but the opposite: it felt like it was trying to copy other movies unrelated to Spider-man, without any real sense of why those movies worked or why Spider-man worked. Essentially it was a cargo cult collage.

The Batman may have "copied" other movies as well, but at least it had a coherent idea behind it: "Batman is noir, these movies are noir, lets draw from them to make a Noir Batman movie". Whereas Sony seemed to begin and end with "What other movies make a lot of money?"

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

A good example is the “with great power comes great responsibility” scene. They were scared to death of delivering the exact line again, but the context was the same. It was like they wanted to say “see, we are DIFFERENT” when it really wasn’t difference of significance.

 

[NotNickFury]

Now this just isn't fair.

There are a lot of things I legitimately enjoy about The Amazing Spider-Man, and I still think that of the three Peter Parker actors, Andrew Garfield is the best, but as far as the overall package goes, The Batman beats it by a long shot and it's not even close.

I think The Amazing Spider-Man had an automatic disadvantage right off the bat because so many claimed it was too soon after the Raimi films, but in an era where we now have multiple Batmans or Spider-Mans at the same time, TASM might've been better received from the start. But again, there's a lot I like about TASM's tone that I feel the second one lost for the sake of having a brighter tone that, admittedly, is more suited to Spider-Man than the more serious stuff, but I enjoyed that first tone.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Yeah The Amazing Spider-Man is the perfect example of a forced reboot with no intention of doing anything new except trying to copy Batman Begins. Awful film, and it's a shame they wrote Peter Parker as an unlikeable *******. Didn't even have a fraction of the heart and soul Sam Raimis Spider-Man did. It's not often I say I almost hate a comic book movie, but TASM is the exception. TASM2 is bad too, but at least Garfield and Stone are good.

 

[metaphysician]

I think a key lesson is that you should only reboot if you have a good creative reason to reboot. Otherwise, even if you have a change in cast and change in direction? Just make a new movie. There's no reason that, after Raimi left, Sony couldn't have made Spider-Man 4 anyway, or a new movie called "Spider-Man: Return of Venom" or whatever stupid subtitle came to mind. It might have had a new cast and new creative direction, but it would have just been "another Spider-man movie", just like how a movie might be "another James Bond movie".