The Batman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man

[Spider-Fan]

This is like Mike Tyson in his prime in a boxing match with Danny DeVito

The Batman wins this by a country mile everyday of the week, 8 times on Sunday, and then for good measure kicks TASM in the groin

 

[Spider-Fan83]

Well, to be fair, Batman in that movie is a younger wet-behind-the-years version who’s still figuring out this crimefighting thing out. The methodical, well researched shrewd tactician is a more of a older Batman at his prime thing.

an at least your willing to admit that/ acknowledge that ... too offend when trying to discuss the film with other fans they just, blindly defend his every action as if he can do no wrong.... an I'm like "did we see the same movie??" I feel like too many fans just want this Batman to be perfect and refuse to see any of the character flaws to justify liking the movie

like people just completely missed the point of the movie

sidenote: I almost wish they didn't have the "2 years" line in there... as it makes some of these mistakes harder to accept/ or dismiss as him just being a rookie

 

[Awest66]

The Batman all day, every day.

TASM honestly doesn't have much going for it beyond the fact that it has two leads with good chemistry.

 

[Herofan]

I think a key lesson is that you should only reboot if you have a good creative reason to reboot.

What good creative reason was there to reboot with TB other than that Nolan's third film had ended with Batman retired (and believed dead)?

 

[moviedoors]

Well, to be fair, Batman in that movie is a younger wet-behind-the-years version who’s still figuring out this crimefighting thing out. The methodical, well researched shrewd tactician is a more of a older Batman at his prime thing.

My take as well. The whole arc of the movie is Batman coming to understand that punching first isn't going to heal his trauma or Gotham's.

 

[metaphysician]

What good creative reason was there to reboot with TB other than that Nolan's third film had ended with Batman retired (and believed dead)?

I mean, I would argue that "the previous creative regime was allowed to definitively end their version of the character" is a perfectly good creative reason, at least on *your* end. It might be questionable wisdom on *their* end to write the character as ending so definitively, but that was ultimately their decision, and possibly their screw-up, not yours.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

which brings up an interesting question... in a prospective as comparing to TASM

if, The Batman, came out only a few years after TDKR, as an official reboot, would it have been as well received

 

[Spider-Fan]

Being a good movie certainly helps. So yes, I think it would just definitely

 

[Bayne]

I think it could've gone either way. As things actually are, I think The Batman already did suffer from a sense of Batman burnout. In that respect, coming out soon after Rises with no Batfleck in between might actually have made it *more* succesful. Of course, it also wouldn't have looked quite as shiny to some people if placed that close to the Nolan trilogy.

Regardless, though, there would remain one massively importance difference between this and ASM, even discounting the quality issue:

ASM was a reboot nobody wanted. As in, the studio actively canceled the ongoing series people liked in order to reboot. At least in the Batman hypothetical, Nolan ended his movies on his own terms and simply didn't give the studio the option of continuing them in any meaningful way. The Batman might have been found wanting by a world still high on Nolan's work, but it wouldn't have borne the same level of resentment that ASM got saddled with.

 

[Awest66]

which brings up an interesting question... in a prospective as comparing to TASM

if, The Batman, came out only a few years after TDKR, as an official reboot, would it have been as well received

I'd say Yes because it is a quality movie. Hell the TDKR detractors would probably go on and on about how it was "The Dark Knight Sequel we should have gotten".

 

[Spider-Fan83]

I can see there being an argument for that...
with a few minor tweaks strikly from a plot/story it could have been a continues to the TDK story...

 

[metaphysician]

I can see there being an argument for that...
with a few minor tweaks strikly from a plot/story it could have been a continues to the TDK story...

I wouldn't exactly call "Bruce Wayne comes back out of retirement, is somehow young again, and replaces his own successor" to be a "few minor tweaks". And there isn't really much room in the TDK timeline to be an interquel ( which is a legitimate gripe about Nolan, yes, but its still true ).

 

[Awest66]

I wouldn't exactly call "Bruce Wayne comes back out of retirement, is somehow young again, and replaces his own successor" to be a "few minor tweaks". And there isn't really much room in the TDK timeline to be an interquel ( which is a legitimate gripe about Nolan, yes, but its still true ).

He means as a sequel to The Dark Knight itself, not to Rises.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

^yes, this...
just meant that it does start with an already established Batman whose already been Bats for 2 years (roughly the amount of time Bales Batman was active in TDK)

by the end of TDK {by taking the blame for Two faces crimes, he becomes distrusted and hated by the cops again, except for Gordon) as was Batman in "the Batman" hated by the cops except for Gordon

the Tumbler/Tank was destroyed in TDK, hence a new Bat-mobile was built

the Joker was hinted at being already in jail (and based on the deleted scene had a established history with Batman)

the main frame work is there, in theory

 

[Frodo]

Reeves's characterizations of the Riddler, Penguin, and Catwoman would also fit pretty well in Nolan's world imo.

 

[metaphysician]

He means as a sequel to The Dark Knight itself, not to Rises.

That might be possible before Rises, but not after. After? "We'll just ignore an entire movie out of existence" is not a minor tweak anymore, that's a major retcon, just as much as an attempt to actually alter the plot of Rises to allow for a continuation.

 

[Awest66]

That might be possible before Rises, but not after. After? "We'll just ignore an entire movie out of existence" is not a minor tweak anymore, that's a major retcon, just as much as an attempt to actually alter the plot of Rises to allow for a continuation.

That's what we both meant.

 

[Awest66]

Reeves's characterizations of the Riddler, Penguin, and Catwoman would also fit pretty well in Nolan's world imo.

The Batman does feel a lot like what would have happened if Nolan chose not to come back for the third part and someone else took over.

 

[GutterTalk]

less pure version of the hero

Not sure why you think this for The Batman. I enjoyed The Batman because it felt like it was possibly the most true version of Batman we've ever seen on screen. You get to see Batman doing detective work, visiting crime scenes, talking to suspects for info, etc. He is supposed to be The World's Greatest Detective. Many of the previous films have glossed over this part if they showed it at all.

To answer your question though, The Batman did not feel like an origin story, whereas TASM definitely is. These are well established characters, audiences the world over know them. Sherlock Holmes and James Bond don't explain an origin with each new film, the audience knows their capabilities, let's see them in action. For those who don't, you can weave information about their origin or skills more subtly into the current story without telling the story from the beginning.