The BATSUIT Thread

expressive Batman white eyes are something I need to see in live action. It's do-able! Look at Spiderman's hightech version of it.. There's so many ways to go about it.
I remember so many laughing off the idea of emotive eyes on Spider-Man. It was a joke and would "never work" until it wasn't and it did. It's like having tunnel vision- only seeing things one way. There are many different ways they can make this work

Emotive lenses, heck, even an emotive cowl - could work too. We dont need to keep using the same methods for 30 years. I too, want to see Batman brought up to modern day. A HUD display in lenses makes sense for 2020
 
So Batman's stuck in the 1980/90s because you can see his eyes? So the Arkham Games are retro, as well? Batman Damned? Which makes Batman V Superman kind of like a Stranger Things-esque 1980s throwback movie.

Adam West couldn't see **** out of his cowl when he filmed his scenes in the 66 TV show because the eyes were so small on his cowl. When they made Batman 89 they put black shoe polish around Keaton's eyes so they could make the slits big enough on the cowl but not have the flesh color stick out (thus creating a more seamless blend with the mask). Every live action Batman movie has done that since. Its ridiculous that we are still doing this with Batman in live action, even after several Spider-Man movies have come out and Black Panther and Deadpool have come out (I've never liked it in the Arkham games either).
 
Understanding his speech/talk is one thing, conveying the emotion is another.

You said people complained about Bane being muffled. That’s not because characters shouldn’t wear masks; it’s because whoever was in charge of making sure he could be properly understood didn’t do a good enough job. Not sure where emotion, as far as that part of the discussion goes, comes into it. But to address the larger point: execution is the deciding factor here. Lenses can work. We’ve seen them work. I don’t think they’ll be used, but suggesting that they can’t or shouldn’t is an outdated argument IMO.
 
If you want to go with Emotions then you easily can do it like the arkham games did.
Where the white lenses only are there when detective mode is on.
Like i said, for the action pieces and fight scenes you could easily go with the white eyes and explain it even well.

For emotional scenes and so you could do CGI if it takes part in action scenes or so, while otherwise you can have his eyes be shown.

Everything is possible in this day and age, but either way...one thing i find important is that they get rid of the eye makeup or at least reduce the size of the holes.
 
You said people complained about Bane being muffled. That’s not because characters shouldn’t wear masks; it’s because whoever was in charge of making sure he could be properly understood didn’t do a good enough job. Not sure where emotion, as far as that part of the discussion goes, comes into it. But to address the larger point: execution is the deciding factor here. Lenses can work. We’ve seen them work. I don’t think they’ll be used, but suggesting that they can’t or shouldn’t is an outdated argument IMO.
Nah. Reread my original post if I even came to suggest one bit that lenses should not be used in any form.
 
Captain America is a more apt comparison than Spider-Man TBH. Why are we even bringing up Spider-Man, let alone the MCU version who is terrible all around (costume and characterization)?
 
Nah. Reread my original post if I even came to suggest one bit that lenses should not be used in any form.

I didn’t say you did. The only part of my post that specifically addressed your words was the bit about Bane. The rest of it was an open statement.
 
Captain America is a more apt comparison than Spider-Man TBH. Why are we even bringing up Spider-Man, let alone the MCU version who is terrible all around (costume and characterization)?
lol calm down. :o
 
Oi vey, guys. The eyes thing again? I think it's time to put this to bed, folks, so I'm going to take you to school.

If you are a person who wants to have a serious debate about Batman's lenses, whatever your initial stance is, please give this lengthy and very well researched post a read. If you're still arguing afterwards, it's because you like to argue or because you don't like to read.

We will look at this first from Batman's perspective - 1) Biometric scanning and its risks for a vigilante who is also a celebrity 2) Technology available to protect the eyes of a person who doesn't want to get shot in the face or go blind from shrapnel. Then we will look at it from a film perspective - 1) How do we give this character maximum ability to emote? 2) Can we do that in a way that looks great?

1. Biometric Considerations:
Here's how incredibly risky it is for ANYONE participating in any kind of illegal activity (such as a hyper violent vigilante who is also a celebrity) to show their eyes while committing a crime.

1) Iris recognition technology used to identify an individual from a crowd is accurate 90 percent to 99 percent of the time. Source.
2) A person's iris can be scanned from 40 feet away, even from a photograph. Source.
3) Law enforcement, one subgroup of people that Batman regularly interacts with and sometimes fights, is increasingly investing in iris scanning technology. Source.
4) An enormous database of iris scans is a simple thing to create, and as of 2016, the FBI quietly amassed a database of 430,000 irises, and this is simply a pilot program. Source.
5) There is already an enormous demand and increasing supply for cheap consumer products that successfully block iris, IR, and facial scans. Source.
6) Iris scanning algorithms were patented in 1994. Scientific documents indicating that this technology would one day exist, and that photographs of irises could be even more effective forensic evidence than fingerprints date back to 1949, not even a decade later than Batman's first appearance. Source.
7) Relatedly, iris scans are far more accurate than voice identification and if you had to choose which thing you'd want to obscure while committing a crime (such as a hyper violent act of vigilantism), you'd obscure your eyes before you obscure your voice.

Here's how this all effects Batman specifically:
1) Bruce Wayne is a celebrity. The idea that a photograph of Bruce Wayne has never been taken from 40 feet away or closer is absolutely absurd. As a result, there is a 100% certainty that Bruce Wayne's irises could be scanned.
2) Batman gets up and close with all types of combatants, and we have already covered the fact that law enforcement (which Batman routinely tangos with) are all about iris scanning technology. An opponent such as The Riddler, who we assume Batman is going up against in the next film, or The Penguin, who has been imagined as an arms dealer, are both people who would certainly have access to cutting edge iris scanning technology.
3) Batman himself would undoubtedly have iris scanning technology and use it all the time given what a data fiend he is. If we are to believe that Batman is in possession of technology that rivals or surpasses that of the United States Government, law enforcement, and arms manufacturers, you can be sure that Batman will be one of the world's foremost experts on iris scanning and all kinds of biometrics.

Conclusion 1: After protecting his literal life, the priority for Batman's suit would be to protect his biometric data. So just from a tactical perspective, there is no way that Batman would ever expose his iris. Full stop. A realistic Batman would likely use a voice modulator, although he almost certainly could fool most voice recognition algorithms by using a rehearsed vocal timbre that is tested and proven not to be identifiable as Bruce Wayne's (like it or not folks, the Christian Bale growl would probably be enough to work). Batman would have access to the technology needed to obsessively rehearse an organic voice that would almost certainly fool a test, but being obsessive, there's no reason to think he wouldn't modulate it at least somewhat in order to be sure.

2. Not wanting to go blind or be shot in the face
Despite his affinity for bats, Batman does not want to be blinded. Or killed. Or get a traumatic brain injury from being shot in the face.

I know there are takes that many people like, where Batman just goes into battle with some basic gear and is "such a ninja" that he practically dodges bullets. I'm going to go ahead and call that ridiculous (as did Deadpool 2). Let's continue to assume that Batman is operating in the real world, and that he doesn't want to get shot in the face, blinded by shrapnel, or overcome by tear gas. Batman might even want to swim through water, who knows?

Have a gander at these testimonials from real US servicemen who invested in PPE (personal protective equipment) that saved their eyesight. These guys were up close and personal with IEDs exploding literally in their face, but kept their eyesight because of the protective eyewear they were using. That gear became available to servicemen in 1998, and we can assume that Batman would have it at least as soon as then, and likely earlier.

Batman might be a ninja, but given how many bombs tend to blow up around him, I don't think he's going to want less protection than US servicemen.

Conclusion 2: Batman is going to want to protect his eyes. Batman has better gear than the US army. Batman will have a way to protect his eyes while maintaining the look of the rest of his gear that he is going for, full stop. Forget detective mode or retractable lenses. There is literally no reason to retract his lenses unless he himself is using iris-triggered protection of his gear (which he probably would, because it's the most accurate biometric short of blood).

To recap so far: Almost every incarnation of Batman indicates that he's at the cutting edge of technological research and cautious as hell. We can conclude, definitively, that a Batman operating from the 90s onward is almost certainly going to be protecting his eyes and his biometric identity.

3. But what about dat emotion?
1) As many other people in this thread, who use evidence to make their cases instead of "nope ur wrong" type arguments, have pointed out... and sigh, I can't believe we're still doing this... most of the "emotion" we read in a person's "eyes" is actually in their eyeBROWS, eyelids, and surrounding facial muscles. Eyebrow position and the width (horizontal and vertical openness of the eye) are vastly more important than pupils. Source.
2) The emotional information you CAN get from pupils is exactly the kind of stuff Batman would not want you to get. Namely, if he's lying, or if he's scared.

Well, let's assume Batman wants to emote... AND he wants to look like an animalistic being... AND he doesn't want to go blind and get shot in the face.

With current technology, he can do all that stuff!

As others have said long ago, before Sadfleck posed with his ugly tank, the cowl could be constructed as follows (from outtermost to innermost):
(4) - a "second skin" like exterior that covers
(3) - mechanical devices which move underneath the skin, providing brow movement, eye widening, and everything anyone wants from the emotional side.
(2) - Bullet/ballistic proof mask and lenses
(1) - Some padding for comfort and concussions (such as the technology used in the best bike helmets) and the sensors on his skin which correspond to the mechanical devices in layer 3.

SO... Conclusion 4: Batman is not a real character, but if he was and lived in our world and operated from the 90s on forward, he could very realistically have a mask that protected his life and identity while allowing him to emote while scaring the crap out of people because he looked like a demon bat. I'm not sure he'd care so much about the emoting thing, but I am 100% certain he'd care about the protecting his life and identity thing.

Now... Can they do it on film? Obviously, yes. Majorly so, yes. Did any of you guys see Gemini Man? The uncanny valley has been crossed (at least in the scenes where they had the time to make the shots look right - my friend worked on that film and there are a number of scenes, such as the daylight scene at the end, that were rushed). CGI can really do a lot, especially when blended in with practical reality (as in the case of Deadpool's mask). And you know who is probably the best practitioner of movies with emotive CGI in the entire world?

Matt. Reeves.

So, the facts support that: A) Batman would and could do it. B) Matt Reeves CAN do it.

Lenses would NOT look silly. Lenses ARE more realistic. You can emote *just fine* with lenses, and if you don't have an articulated mask, it doesn't even matter if you can see the actor's pupils.

So why in the world would you possibly argue for Batman to put his precious eyeballs at risk, let alone put on silly raccoon paint, all so that he can't really even emote anything worth emoting?

Why? Because you like it. It's a look that you like. And that's FINE. But stop trying to lean on any other excuse except for your own personal taste. There just isn't any justification for it in 2020.
 
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Oi vey, guys. The eyes thing again? I think it's time to put this to bed, folks, so I'm going to take you to school.

If you are a person who wants to have a serious debate about Batman's lenses, whatever your initial stance is, please give this lengthy and very well researched post a read. If you're still arguing afterwards, it's because you like to argue or because you don't like to read.

We will look at this first from Batman's perspective - 1) Biometric scanning and its risks for a vigilante who is also a celebrity 2) Technology available to protect the eyes of a person who doesn't want to get shot in the face or go blind from shrapnel. Then we will look at it from a film perspective - 1) How do we give this character maximum ability to emote? 2) Can we do that in a way that looks great?

1. Biometric Considerations:
Here's how incredibly risky it is for ANYONE participating in any kind of illegal activity (such as a hyper violent vigilante who is also a celebrity) to show their eyes while committing a crime.

1) Iris recognition technology used to identify an individual from a crowd is accurate 90 percent to 99 percent of the time. Source.
2) A person's iris can be scanned from 40 feet away, even from a photograph. Source.
3) Law enforcement, one subgroup of people that Batman regularly interacts with and sometimes fights, is increasingly investing in iris scanning technology. Source.
4) An enormous database of iris scans is a simple thing to create, and as of 2016, the FBI quietly amassed a database of 430,000 irises, and this is simply a pilot program. Source.
5) There is already an enormous demand and increasing supply for cheap consumer products that successfully block iris, IR, and facial scans. Source.
6) Iris scanning algorithms were patented in 1994. Scientific documents indicating that this technology would one day exist, and that photographs of irises could be even more effective forensic evidence than fingerprints date back to 1949, not even a decade later than Batman's first appearance. Source.
7) Relatedly, iris scans are far more accurate than voice identification and if you had to choose which thing you'd want to obscure while committing a crime (such as a hyper violent act of vigilantism), you'd obscure your eyes before your obscure your voice.

Here's how this all effects Batman specifically:
1) Bruce Wayne is a celebrity. The idea that a photograph of Bruce Wayne has never been taken from 40 feet away or closer is absolutely absurd. As a result, there is a 100% certainty that Bruce Wayne's irises could be scanned.
2) Batman gets up and close with all types of combatants, and we have already covered the fact that law enforcement (which Batman routinely tangos with) are all about iris scanning technology. An opponent such as The Riddler, who we assume Batman is going up against in the next film, or The Penguin, who has been imagined as an arms dealer, are both people who would certainly have access to cutting edge iris scanning technology.
3) Batman himself would undoubtedly have iris scanning technology and use it all the time given what a data fiend he is. If we are to believe that Batman is in possession of technology that rivals or surpasses that of the United States Government, law enforcement, and arms manufacturers, you can be sure that Batman will be one of the world's foremost experts on iris scanning and all kinds of biometrics.

Conclusion 1: After protecting his literal life, the priority for Batman's suit would be to protect his biometric data. So just from a tactical perspective, there is no way that Batman would ever expose his iris. Full stop. A realistic Batman would likely use a voice modulator, although he almost certainly could fool most voice recognition algorithms by using a rehearsed vocal timbre that is tested and proven not to be identifiable as Bruce Wayne's (like it or not folks, the Christian Bale growl would probably be enough to work). Batman would have access to the technology needed to obsessively rehearse an organic voice that would almost certainly fool a test, but being obsessive, there's no reason to think he wouldn't modulate it at least somewhat in order to be sure.

2. Not wanting to go blind or be shot in the face
Despite his affinity for bats, Batman does not want to be blinded or killed.
I'm going to make a wild assumption that Batman doesn't want to get shot in the face. I know there are takes, and many that people like, that Batman just goes into battle with some basic gear and is "such a ninja" that he practically dodges bullets. I'm going to go ahead and call that ridiculous (as did Deadpool 2). Let's continue to assume that Batman is operating in the real world, and that he doesn't want to get shot in the face, blinded by shrapnel, or overcome by tear gas. Batman might even want to swim through water, who knows?

Have a gander at these testimonials from real US servicemen who invested in PPE (personal protective equipment) that saved their eyesight. These guys were up close and personal with IEDs exploding literally in their face, but kept their eyesight because of the protective eyewear they were using. That gear became available to servicemen in 1998, and we can assume that Batman would have it at least as soon as then, and likely earlier.

Batman might be a ninja, but given how many bombs tend to blow up around him, I don't think he's going to want less protection than US servicemen.

Conclusion 2: Batman is going to want to protect his eyes. Batman has better gear than the US army. Batman will have a way to protect his eyes while maintaining the look of the rest of his gear that he is going for, full stop. Forget detective mode or retractable lenses. There is literally no reason to retract his lenses unless he himself is using iris-triggered protection of his gear (which he probably would, because it's the most accurate biometric short of blood).

To recap so far: Almost every incarnation of Batman indicates that he's at the cutting edge of technological research and cautious as hell. We can conclude, definitively, that a Batman operating from the 90s onward is almost certainly going to be protecting his eyes and his biometric identity.

3. But what about dat emotion?
1) As many other people in this thread, who use evidence to make their cases instead of "nope ur wrong" type arguments, have pointed out... and sigh, I can't believe we're still doing this... most of the "emotion" we read in a person's "eyes" is actually in their eyeBROWS, eyelids, and surrounding facial muscles. Eyebrow position and the width (horizontal and vertical openness of the eye) are vastly more important than pupils. Source.
2) The emotional information you CAN get from pupils is exactly the kind of stuff Batman would not want you to get. Namely, if he's lying, or if he's scared.

Well, let's assume Batman wants to emote... AND he wants to look like an animalistic being... AND he doesn't want to go blind and get shot in the face.

With current technology, he can do all that stuff!

As others have said long ago, before Sadfleck posed with his ugly tank, the cowl could be constructed as follows (from outtermost to innermost):
(4) - a "second skin" like exterior that covers
(3) - mechanical devices which move underneath the skin, providing brow movement, eye widening, and everything anyone wants from the emotional side.
(2) - Bullet/ballistic proof mask and lenses
(1) - Some padding for comfort and concussions (such as the technology used in the best bike helmets) and the sensors on his skin which correspond to the mechanical devices in layer 3.

SO... Conclusion 4: Batman is not a real character, but if he was and lived in our world and operated from the 90s on forward, he could very realistically have a mask that protected his life and identity while allowing him to emote while scaring the crap out of people because he looked like a demon bat. I'm not sure he'd care so much about the emoting thing, but I am 100% certain he'd care about the protecting his life and identity thing.

Now... Can they do it on film? Obviously, yes. Majorly so, yes. Did any of you guys see Gemini Man? The uncanny valley has been crossed (at least in the scenes where they had the time to make the shots look right - my friend worked on that film and there are a number of scenes, such as the daylight scene at the end, that were rushed). CGI can really do a lot, especially when blended in with practical reality (as in the case of Deadpool's mask). And you know who is probably the best practitioner of movies with emotive CGI in the entire world?

Matt. Reeves.

So, the facts support that: A) Batman would and could do it. B) Matt Reeves CAN do it.

Lenses would NOT look silly. Lenses ARE more realistic. You can emote *just fine* with lenses, and if you don't have an articulated mask, it doesn't even matter if you can see the actor's pupils.

So why in the world would you possibly argue for Batman to put his precious eyeballs at risk, let alone put on silly raccoon paint, all so that he can't really even emote anything worth emoting?

Why? Because you like it. It's a look that you like. And that's FINE. But stop trying to lean on any other excuse except for your own personal taste. There just isn't any justification for it in 2020.
giphy-3.gif

Give this man an award. He settled this debate with facts and logic
 
Oi vey, guys. The eyes thing again? I think it's time to put this to bed, folks, so I'm going to take you to school.

If you are a person who wants to have a serious debate about Batman's lenses, whatever your initial stance is, please give this lengthy and very well researched post a read. If you're still arguing afterwards, it's because you like to argue or because you don't like to read.

We will look at this first from Batman's perspective - 1) Biometric scanning and its risks for a vigilante who is also a celebrity 2) Technology available to protect the eyes of a person who doesn't want to get shot in the face or go blind from shrapnel. Then we will look at it from a film perspective - 1) How do we give this character maximum ability to emote? 2) Can we do that in a way that looks great?

1. Biometric Considerations:
Here's how incredibly risky it is for ANYONE participating in any kind of illegal activity (such as a hyper violent vigilante who is also a celebrity) to show their eyes while committing a crime.

1) Iris recognition technology used to identify an individual from a crowd is accurate 90 percent to 99 percent of the time. Source.
2) A person's iris can be scanned from 40 feet away, even from a photograph. Source.
3) Law enforcement, one subgroup of people that Batman regularly interacts with and sometimes fights, is increasingly investing in iris scanning technology. Source.
4) An enormous database of iris scans is a simple thing to create, and as of 2016, the FBI quietly amassed a database of 430,000 irises, and this is simply a pilot program. Source.
5) There is already an enormous demand and increasing supply for cheap consumer products that successfully block iris, IR, and facial scans. Source.
6) Iris scanning algorithms were patented in 1994. Scientific documents indicating that this technology would one day exist, and that photographs of irises could be even more effective forensic evidence than fingerprints date back to 1949, not even a decade later than Batman's first appearance. Source.
7) Relatedly, iris scans are far more accurate than voice identification and if you had to choose which thing you'd want to obscure while committing a crime (such as a hyper violent act of vigilantism), you'd obscure your eyes before you obscure your voice.

Here's how this all effects Batman specifically:
1) Bruce Wayne is a celebrity. The idea that a photograph of Bruce Wayne has never been taken from 40 feet away or closer is absolutely absurd. As a result, there is a 100% certainty that Bruce Wayne's irises could be scanned.
2) Batman gets up and close with all types of combatants, and we have already covered the fact that law enforcement (which Batman routinely tangos with) are all about iris scanning technology. An opponent such as The Riddler, who we assume Batman is going up against in the next film, or The Penguin, who has been imagined as an arms dealer, are both people who would certainly have access to cutting edge iris scanning technology.
3) Batman himself would undoubtedly have iris scanning technology and use it all the time given what a data fiend he is. If we are to believe that Batman is in possession of technology that rivals or surpasses that of the United States Government, law enforcement, and arms manufacturers, you can be sure that Batman will be one of the world's foremost experts on iris scanning and all kinds of biometrics.

Conclusion 1: After protecting his literal life, the priority for Batman's suit would be to protect his biometric data. So just from a tactical perspective, there is no way that Batman would ever expose his iris. Full stop. A realistic Batman would likely use a voice modulator, although he almost certainly could fool most voice recognition algorithms by using a rehearsed vocal timbre that is tested and proven not to be identifiable as Bruce Wayne's (like it or not folks, the Christian Bale growl would probably be enough to work). Batman would have access to the technology needed to obsessively rehearse an organic voice that would almost certainly fool a test, but being obsessive, there's no reason to think he wouldn't modulate it at least somewhat in order to be sure.

2. Not wanting to go blind or be shot in the face
Despite his affinity for bats, Batman does not want to be blinded. Or killed. Or get a traumatic brain injury from being shot in the face.

I know there are takes that many people like, where Batman just goes into battle with some basic gear and is "such a ninja" that he practically dodges bullets. I'm going to go ahead and call that ridiculous (as did Deadpool 2). Let's continue to assume that Batman is operating in the real world, and that he doesn't want to get shot in the face, blinded by shrapnel, or overcome by tear gas. Batman might even want to swim through water, who knows?

Have a gander at these testimonials from real US servicemen who invested in PPE (personal protective equipment) that saved their eyesight. These guys were up close and personal with IEDs exploding literally in their face, but kept their eyesight because of the protective eyewear they were using. That gear became available to servicemen in 1998, and we can assume that Batman would have it at least as soon as then, and likely earlier.

Batman might be a ninja, but given how many bombs tend to blow up around him, I don't think he's going to want less protection than US servicemen.

Conclusion 2: Batman is going to want to protect his eyes. Batman has better gear than the US army. Batman will have a way to protect his eyes while maintaining the look of the rest of his gear that he is going for, full stop. Forget detective mode or retractable lenses. There is literally no reason to retract his lenses unless he himself is using iris-triggered protection of his gear (which he probably would, because it's the most accurate biometric short of blood).

To recap so far: Almost every incarnation of Batman indicates that he's at the cutting edge of technological research and cautious as hell. We can conclude, definitively, that a Batman operating from the 90s onward is almost certainly going to be protecting his eyes and his biometric identity.

3. But what about dat emotion?
1) As many other people in this thread, who use evidence to make their cases instead of "nope ur wrong" type arguments, have pointed out... and sigh, I can't believe we're still doing this... most of the "emotion" we read in a person's "eyes" is actually in their eyeBROWS, eyelids, and surrounding facial muscles. Eyebrow position and the width (horizontal and vertical openness of the eye) are vastly more important than pupils. Source.
2) The emotional information you CAN get from pupils is exactly the kind of stuff Batman would not want you to get. Namely, if he's lying, or if he's scared.

Well, let's assume Batman wants to emote... AND he wants to look like an animalistic being... AND he doesn't want to go blind and get shot in the face.

With current technology, he can do all that stuff!

As others have said long ago, before Sadfleck posed with his ugly tank, the cowl could be constructed as follows (from outtermost to innermost):
(4) - a "second skin" like exterior that covers
(3) - mechanical devices which move underneath the skin, providing brow movement, eye widening, and everything anyone wants from the emotional side.
(2) - Bullet/ballistic proof mask and lenses
(1) - Some padding for comfort and concussions (such as the technology used in the best bike helmets) and the sensors on his skin which correspond to the mechanical devices in layer 3.

SO... Conclusion 4: Batman is not a real character, but if he was and lived in our world and operated from the 90s on forward, he could very realistically have a mask that protected his life and identity while allowing him to emote while scaring the crap out of people because he looked like a demon bat. I'm not sure he'd care so much about the emoting thing, but I am 100% certain he'd care about the protecting his life and identity thing.

Now... Can they do it on film? Obviously, yes. Majorly so, yes. Did any of you guys see Gemini Man? The uncanny valley has been crossed (at least in the scenes where they had the time to make the shots look right - my friend worked on that film and there are a number of scenes, such as the daylight scene at the end, that were rushed). CGI can really do a lot, especially when blended in with practical reality (as in the case of Deadpool's mask). And you know who is probably the best practitioner of movies with emotive CGI in the entire world?

Matt. Reeves.

So, the facts support that: A) Batman would and could do it. B) Matt Reeves CAN do it.

Lenses would NOT look silly. Lenses ARE more realistic. You can emote *just fine* with lenses, and if you don't have an articulated mask, it doesn't even matter if you can see the actor's pupils.

So why in the world would you possibly argue for Batman to put his precious eyeballs at risk, let alone put on silly raccoon paint, all so that he can't really even emote anything worth emoting?

Why? Because you like it. It's a look that you like. And that's FINE. But stop trying to lean on any other excuse except for your own personal taste. There just isn't any justification for it in 2020.

This is not about the practicality of lenses (little about Batman's suit is practical) nor is it about execution (I agree they can be done well). It is simply less than ideal to cover an actor's eyes when it is not 100% necessary. Anyway, it's highly unlikely they will go that direction... If anyone was going to do it, it would have been Snyder.
 
I don't even know why you want a live action version. You don't really want one.
 
Valid points, but I don't think it has to look cartoony or silly. For example, Black Panther is far more similar to Batman than Deadpool yet the lenses don't look out of place at all. Furthermore, I think lenses would actually help Batman look more animalistic, depending on how they're done. Of course, glowing Iron Man eyes would definitely ruin that.

Captain-America-Civil-War-Preview-Black-Panther.jpg
Which is why Feige and Coogler found every excuse possible to have his mask disappear or come off during major dramatic scenes in Black Panther. Not having lens allowed Burton and Nolan the opportunity to use all of Keaton and Bale's gifts in their suits and to set major dramatic scenes with them fully costumed. At most they should be temporary like in TDK and only used in major action scenes.
 
I'm gonna refer to that post whenever someone makes the case against white eyes

Don't bother.

These guys just can't admit that they like the look of Bruce Wayne in eye makeup.

It's OK guys. We don't think any less of you for liking what you like.

Just don't try to justify it. Because you can't.
 
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This is not about the practicality of lenses (little about Batman's suit is practical) nor is it about execution (I agree they can be done well). It is simply less than ideal to cover an actor's eyes when it is not 100% necessary. Anyway, it's highly unlikely they will go that direction... If anyone was going to do it, it would have been Snyder.

Nothing on a movie is "necessary " when you really get down to it. Everything is an aesthetic choice - from casting, to costume design to the intricacies of designing a set. I mean, it's not neccessary for Superman to wear a cape but the filmmakers understand that it is part of the character's icongraphy. We've already established that lenses CAN be done would not limit the actor's performance. Panther has retractable Lenses, why can't Batman? This is 2020, not 1989.

The idea of a Batman in 2020 living in a technologically inclined society smearing black paint on his eyes under a plain rubber cowl is kinda ridiculous. Even if we don't get the eyes, the execution of the cowl on film needs to evolve
 
Which is why Feige and Coogler found every excuse possible to have his mask disappear or come off during major dramatic scenes in Black Panther. Not having lens allowed Burton and Nolan the opportunity to use all of Keaton and Bale's gifts in their suits and to set major dramatic scenes with them fully costumed. At most they should be temporary like in TDK and only used in major action scenes.
Actually the lenses were retractable in Black Panther, there were certain scenes were they weren't white.

Also, the Black Panther suit doesn't allow the mouth and jawline to be seen, which the Batman suit does, so that makes a difference.
 
Don't bother.

These guys just can't admit that they like the look of Bruce Wayne in eye makeup.

It's OK guys. We don't think any less of you for liking what you like.

Just don't try to justify it. Because you can't.
Those of us old enough to remember during the Nolan days, people used to use a similar argument against a Grey Batsuit, let alone one that looks like fabric

This argument against lenses "Neccessary for emotion"will keep being repeated until someone proves it wrong on film. This is how these things go
 
I mean, they can always take the lenses off for more emotional scenes, if they go with retractable lenses. That's kind of the best of both worlds. So I don't see the issue here?

Batfleck's tactical suit in JL also has lenses (or sunglasses if you want to call them that), and he always takes them off when talking to other characters. It's a pretty easy fix imho.
 
Nothing on a movie is "necessary " when you really get down to it. Everything is an aesthetic choice - from casting, to costume design to the intricacies of designing a set. I mean, it's not neccessary for Superman to wear a cape but the filmmakers understand that it is part of the character's icongraphy. We've already established that lenses CAN be done would not limit the actor's performance. Panther has retractable Lenses, why can't Batman? This is 2020, not 1989.

The idea of a Batman in 2020 living in a technologically inclined society smearing black paint on his eyes under a plain rubber cowl is kinda ridiculous. Even if we don't get the eyes, the execution of the cowl on film needs to evolve

We haven't established that. Obscuring an actor's eyes limits their performance. End of story.
 
Those of us old enough to remember during the Nolan days, people used to use a similar argument against a Grey Batsuit, let alone one that looks like fabric

This argument against lenses "Neccessary for emotion"will keep being repeated until someone proves it wrong on film. This is how these things go

This is not the same at all... Those opposed to the grey/fabric suit argued that it wasn't believable/practical or would look cheesy. I'm arguing that obscuring the actor's eyes limits his performance. Anyway, it's a moot point: Patman won't have lenses.
 
We haven't established that. Obscuring an actor's eyes limits their performance. End of story.
No, it does not. Not in a way that matters enough for it to detract from the performance. I don't know how many times Cox has to be brought up in order for this point to be understood. And there is well-articulated post on the previous page explaining why the "emotion" argument is inherently flawed and hollow.

Also, unless you are secretly Matt Reeves himself, you have no way of knowing if Pattinson will have lenses or not.
 
No, it does not. Not in a way that matters enough for it to detract from the performance. I don't know how many times Cox has to be brought up in order for this point to be understood. And there is well-articulated post on the previous page explaining why the "emotion" argument is inherently flawed and hollow.

Also, unless you are secretly Matt Reeves himself, you have no way of knowing if Pattinson will have lenses or not.

Pattinson just mentioned in an interview wearing eye makeup, so that pretty well debunks having lenses.

And yes, having the actor's eyes obscured limits their performance. I can't even believe you would argue this. The use of the eyes has been a focal point of every acting technique since the rise of film. Watch DiCaprio, Bale, DeNiro, Pacino, Streep, Denzel, Phoenix, etc. etc. and tell me they're not using their eyes. Hell, Reeves himself made a point to focus in on the eyes of his cgi protagonist. For what reason do you think that is?
 

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