The BATSUIT Thread

[Maze]

Jim Carrey: Tommy Lee Jones Hated Me During Batman Forever

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

Yeah, and Joel basically got rid of Val Kilmer because how childish he was during production.

 

[Captain Tired]

Childish? Is that a technical term?

 

[Zorro]

I knew about that hug but not about Cobb and Dumb & Dumber.

I read about Kilmer being a problem during filming just a couple of years ago too. I always thought it was a financial thing or filming scheduling as they both made it seem during interviews like the special features

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Umm 89-97? Most of the villains had super-powers. Burton/Shumacher was a fantastical world.

So Mr. Freeze, Bane, and Poison Ivy were more on the unbelievable side, you can scratch Batman & Robin out then.
I guess you can say Catwoman is more on the supernatural side in surviving and suddenly learning to fight, but her strength was normal human athlete, and none of the villains are in the realm of super strength characters.

Snyder/Ayer’s Batfleck was involved in 3 movies that also had super-powered beings. So we’ve only had 3 Nolan Batman movies without it. I would make the argument that we need more realistic Batman movies. And we don’t have to sacrifice most of the things Nolan did that made the fans lose their ****.

Yeah, I didn't count that crap in my list.

Give me something more fantastical.

 

[Kane52630]

Here's the suit reveal brighten up in gif form.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Given that it seems we've officially gone back to angular armoured plating when this was the ideal opportunity to try something different, I cant help but shake this feeling that in terms of a fabric/muscle aesthetic the BvS suit is likely to be as good as it ever got.

 

[BatsAndNights]

Hard disagree. Nolan Batman was far from the best Batman. The movies were written so well, and I loved each movie, but the ideal Batman is DCAU Batman for sure IMO.

Paul Dini is still the greatest Batman writer who's ever lived

Change my mind.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Paul Dini is still the greatest Batman writer who's ever lived

Change my mind.

I will never understand why he wasn’t hired for the DCEU. That man should’ve written Justice League. I’m hoping that if they ever reboot, that they’ll talk to Dini.

 

[harrier1215]

Yep, and what’s the best Batman of them all? The DCAU Batman of course. The one where Batman worked with gods and fought monsters regularly.

I'm sorry....what?

 

[harrier1215]

So Mr. Freeze, Bane, and Poison Ivy were more on the unbelievable side, you can scratch Batman & Robin out then.
I guess you can say Catwoman is more on the supernatural side in surviving and suddenly learning to fight, but her strength was normal human athlete, and none of the villains are in the realm of super strength characters.


Yeah, I didn't count that crap in my list.

Give me something more fantastical.

Mask of the Phantasm is fantastical, as is the Mr.Freeze movie. You can have fantastical aspects without them being supernatural.

 

[Captain Tired]

I will never understand why he wasn’t hired for the DCEU. That man should’ve written Justice League. I’m hoping that if they ever reboot, that they’ll talk to Dini.

I'm not.

I like Batman, but I could do without him being able to beat anyone and everyone in the Justice League.

I'm no fan of Bat-god.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I'm not.

I like Batman, but I could do without him being able to beat anyone and everyone in the Justice League.

I'm no fan of Bat-god.

That's one of my favorite aspects of the character. It's the only way it makes sense for Batman to be in the Justice League. The DCAU Justice League show handled it perfectly.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Those that don't like the fantastical elements of Batman are missing out on 90% of his history. Ultra serious/realistic Batman makes up very little of the character's history. You're allowed to prefer that, but the reality is that Batman has been incredibly unrealistic for the vast majority of his existence. You miss out on a lot by narrowing the character down to only the most realistic elements. I want to see a Batman who teams up with Superman, fights alongside the Justice League, and has villains that are 600 years old, can shape shift, or have freezing guns. That's my Batman. I think this series is going to be very grounded, and I'm OK with that, but it'll never be peak Batman if it doesn't embrace the fantastical elements. Batman has come a long way since his pulp-y Golden Age stories.

 

[shauner111]

Bat-God is boring. And he would never join the JL unless the threat was directly related to Gotham. I hope we never get another JL movie unless it’s Ras as the villain.

 

[shauner111]

Those that don't like the fantastical elements of Batman are missing out on 90% of his history. Ultra serious/realistic Batman makes up very little of the character's history. You're allowed to prefer that, but the reality is that Batman has been incredibly unrealistic for the vast majority of his existence. You miss out on a lot by narrowing the character down to only the most realistic elements. I want to see a Batman who teams up with Superman, fights alongside the Justice League, and has villains that are 600 years old, can shape shift, or have freezing guns. That's my Batman. I think this series is going to be very grounded, and I'm OK with that, but it'll never be peak Batman if it doesn't embrace the fantastical elements. Batman has come a long way since his pulp-y Golden Age stories.

Meh. I respect your opinion but I don’t want to see that stuff. That’s not my Batman. I don’t want it to be ultra serious. TDK trilogy wasn’t ultra serious, and I wouldn’t mind if this was even less. Batman is not realistic plain and simple. It’s a fictional city, and this movie clearly shows a medieval looking American city which doesn’t exist. The Batman I grew up with didn’t interact with Superman or other aliens/gods. Justice League wasn’t on my radar growing up. I remember only a couple of super-powered villains from BTAS but I always skipped over that stuff. When I was a kid it was all about cops, robbers, vigilantes, serial killers, gangsters. A huge rogues gallery. Some were very theatrical. Batman would operate in the shadows, return to his batcave, do detective work, rinse/repeat. Nolan got close to that but he stripped things down too much and also went too big with the plots of his films. I want something different, like the stuff i remembered as a kid. Even when I play one of the Arkham games, it’s heightened but I’m not there to see him fight monsters. At the same time I want to see him as a unrealistic genius and fighter who drives a car, shakes down the Penguin, gets clawed and whipped by Catwoman, and leaps off a gargoyle at night.

That’s MY definition of “having my cake and eating it too”. I understand that some ppl want gods etc but It’s not for me. Also as a film fan first and foremost, that kind of CGI is not what gets me inside a theater. I’ll meet you halfway with the Lazarus Pit and Freeze gun. Maybe they can change my mind with body horror. But all I can think about is a giant digital blob and it sounds silly to me.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Meh. I respect your opinion but I don’t want to see that stuff. That’s not my Batman. I don’t want it to be ultra serious. TDK trilogy wasn’t ultra serious, and I wouldn’t mind if this was even less. Batman is not realistic plain and simple. It’s a fictional city, and this movie clearly shows a medieval looking American city which doesn’t exist. The Batman I grew up with didn’t interact with Superman or other aliens/gods. Justice League wasn’t on my radar growing up. I remember only a couple of super-powered villains from BTAS but I always skipped over that stuff. When I was a kid it was all about cops, robbers, vigilantes, serial killers, gangsters. A huge rogues gallery. Some were very theatrical. Batman would operate in the shadows, return to his batcave, do detective work, rinse/repeat. Nolan got close to that but he stripped things down too much and also went too big with the plots of his films. I want something different, like the stuff i remembered as a kid. Even when I play one of the Arkham games, it’s heightened but I’m not there to see him fight monsters. At the same time I want to see him as a unrealistic genius and fighter who drives a car, shakes down the Penguin, gets clawed and whipped by Catwoman, and leaps off a gargoyle at night.

That’s MY definition of “having my cake and eating it too”. I understand that some ppl want gods etc but It’s not for me. Also as a film fan first and foremost, that kind of CGI is not what gets me inside a theater. I’ll meet you halfway with the Lazarus Pit and Freeze gun. Maybe they can change my mind with body horror. But all I can think about is a giant digital blob and it sounds silly to me.

We're pretty much on the same page. For this series, I just would like a comic accurate Ra's, Freeze, Clayface, Man-Bat... stuff like that.

I still want a good World's Finest movie. I think a good compromise would be to use a different, older Batman for team up movies. I'd love a team up trilogy (World's Finest, Trinity, Justice League) to run concurrently with The Batman.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

Meh. I respect your opinion but I don’t want to see that stuff. That’s not my Batman. I don’t want it to be ultra serious. TDK trilogy wasn’t ultra serious, and I wouldn’t mind if this was even less. Batman is not realistic plain and simple. It’s a fictional city, and this movie clearly shows a medieval looking American city which doesn’t exist. The Batman I grew up with didn’t interact with Superman or other aliens/gods. Justice League wasn’t on my radar growing up. I remember only a couple of super-powered villains from BTAS but I always skipped over that stuff. When I was a kid it was all about cops, robbers, vigilantes, serial killers, gangsters. A huge rogues gallery. Some were very theatrical. Batman would operate in the shadows, return to his batcave, do detective work, rinse/repeat. Nolan got close to that but he stripped things down too much and also went too big with the plots of his films. I want something different, like the stuff i remembered as a kid. Even when I play one of the Arkham games, it’s heightened but I’m not there to see him fight monsters. At the same time I want to see him as a unrealistic genius and fighter who drives a car, shakes down the Penguin, gets clawed and whipped by Catwoman, and leaps off a gargoyle at night.

That’s MY definition of “having my cake and eating it too”. I understand that some ppl want gods etc but It’s not for me. Also as a film fan first and foremost, that kind of CGI is not what gets me inside a theater. I’ll meet you halfway with the Lazarus Pit and Freeze gun. Maybe they can change my mind with body horror. But all I can think about is a giant digital blob and it sounds silly to me.

Great post. I agree with all.

 

[BatsAndNights]

Dini's Batman isn't my favourite because of the Bat God stuff from Justice League. Even I'll admit, I wasn't a tremendous fan of that. But Dini's characterisation of Bruce Wayne is, in my opinion, absolutely untouchable. He understands the character to an extent that only those after him were able to match. He was, to my knowledge, one of if not the first person to give Bruce Wayne humanity. He went beyond what Frank Miller did in making Bruce Wayne darker and found a way to keep him dark but still keep him as an honest to God hero. Whether it be him telling a young boy who experienced the same tragedy as him to not become what killed their families in War on Crime, everything with Ace's death in JLU, even the little details like Wayne Enterprises funding a housing complex for those who leave Arkham legally which helps them return to society in the DCAU.

Frank Miller returned Bruce Wayne to the dark force of vengeance that Detective Comic 27 showed us. But Paul Dini went beyond that and made Bruce Wayne respond to his tragedy by doing everything he could to make sure that what happened to him never happens again. Not out of some sociopathic compulsion or anger to just beat the crap out of people, but compassion and the belief that the world can be better than that. Frank Miller made Batman a dark vigilante again. But Paul Dini took that dark vigilante and made him a hero. The very same hero who's my favourite character of all time. A flawed and deeply scarred human being who's just doing everything in his power to make sure he is the last person to experience what that's like. That's the kind of person I'm hoping to God that I see from The Batman, above all.

 

[TheJumpMan4523]

Here's the suit reveal brighten up in gif form.

Does anyone else think the ears there look long and Kane esque? You can kind of see the shape with the heightened GIF. Thank you btw

 

[Boy Scout]

Any characterization of Wayne that isn’t the stoic, borderline sociopathic, unlikable jackass we’re so often saddled with is okay in my book.

Big no to BatGod, too. It has its place, but far too often does BatGod result in the undermining of other characters.

 

[Invader Joker]

Dini's Batman isn't my favourite because of the Bat God stuff from Justice League. Even I'll admit, I wasn't a tremendous fan of that. But Dini's characterisation of Bruce Wayne is, in my opinion, absolutely untouchable. He understands the character to an extent that only those after him were able to match. He was, to my knowledge, one of if not the first person to give Bruce Wayne humanity. He went beyond what Frank Miller did in making Bruce Wayne darker and found a way to keep him dark but still keep him as an honest to God hero. Whether it be him telling a young boy who experienced the same tragedy as him to not become what killed their families in War on Crime, everything with Ace's death in JLU, even the little details like Wayne Enterprises funding a housing complex for those who leave Arkham legally which helps them return to society in the DCAU.

Frank Miller returned Bruce Wayne to the dark force of vengeance that Detective Comic 27 showed us. But Paul Dini went beyond that and made Bruce Wayne respond to his tragedy by doing everything he could to make sure that what happened to him never happens again. Not out of some sociopathic compulsion or anger to just beat the crap out of people, but compassion and the belief that the world can be better than that. Frank Miller made Batman a dark vigilante again. But Paul Dini took that dark vigilante and made him a hero. The very same hero who's my favourite character of all time. A flawed and deeply scarred human being who's just doing everything in his power to make sure he is the last person to experience what that's like. That's the kind of person I'm hoping to God that I see from The Batman, above all.

I'd say that Miller got Bruce extremely spot on in TDKR and Year One, but went straight to hell with All Star and Strikes Again.

 

[Maze]

Does anyone else think the ears there look long and Kane esque? You can kind of see the shape with the heightened GIF. Thank you btw

That's what i see too. But at this point, i wonder if i'm looking at a Big Foot or Loch Ness situation.

 

[harrier1215]

Any characterization of Wayne that isn’t the stoic, borderline sociopathic, unlikable jackass we’re so often saddled with is okay in my book.

Big no to BatGod, too. It has its place, but far too often does BatGod result in the undermining of other characters.

Hear ****ing hear. Batman IS NOT A SOCIOPATH. He isn't a villain...he's a ****ing hero. Why is it so hard for creatives in charge of Batman to write him any other way?

 

[TheJumpMan4523]

Meh. I respect your opinion but I don’t want to see that stuff. That’s not my Batman. I don’t want it to be ultra serious. TDK trilogy wasn’t ultra serious, and I wouldn’t mind if this was even less. Batman is not realistic plain and simple. It’s a fictional city, and this movie clearly shows a medieval looking American city which doesn’t exist. The Batman I grew up with didn’t interact with Superman or other aliens/gods. Justice League wasn’t on my radar growing up. I remember only a couple of super-powered villains from BTAS but I always skipped over that stuff. When I was a kid it was all about cops, robbers, vigilantes, serial killers, gangsters. A huge rogues gallery. Some were very theatrical. Batman would operate in the shadows, return to his batcave, do detective work, rinse/repeat. Nolan got close to that but he stripped things down too much and also went too big with the plots of his films. I want something different, like the stuff i remembered as a kid. Even when I play one of the Arkham games, it’s heightened but I’m not there to see him fight monsters. At the same time I want to see him as a unrealistic genius and fighter who drives a car, shakes down the Penguin, gets clawed and whipped by Catwoman, and leaps off a gargoyle at night.

That’s MY definition of “having my cake and eating it too”. I understand that some ppl want gods etc but It’s not for me. Also as a film fan first and foremost, that kind of CGI is not what gets me inside a theater. I’ll meet you halfway with the Lazarus Pit and Freeze gun. Maybe they can change my mind with body horror. But all I can think about is a giant digital blob and it sounds silly to me.

I agree with the vast majority of your post.

Except the bolded.

That’s just false and your own personal perception. Those films were extremely well received and well regarded. Also very entertaining.

Realistic is the wrong words that people typically use. It’s heightened reality. Verisimilitude. Suspension of disbelief through appearing to be realistic.

The Nolan films had quite a bit of fantasy, it was just explained in a logical convincing way. Even in some cases were they didn’t have time to go into backstory to tell you why it’s believable, it’s presented in such a realistic fashion that you just buy into it and go with it. Enough possible storytelling equity had been built up in BB and TDK to just roll with it.

Selena Kyle is a cat burglar, Bane has a mask that has an anesthetic that makes him not feel pain. Thus like a junkie on some drug, feels invincible. Similar to venom from the comics but a more plausible version. Also not dressed like a stupid wrestling Luchador, and more like a mercenary terrorist for hire.

Nolan took so much from the source and put it in a believable heightened reality. And vastly more palatable. Even down to the concept of “Robin.”

Which even for the character in the comic books doesn’t make sense. One of them? Maybe. But he’s been through like three of them throughout the decades of the character. Why would he keep endangering small children LOL in his quest or war on crime? It’s really negligent and stupid.

Because the believable interpretation of Bruce Wayne psychology, he basically has a death wish. He’s severely depressed. And borderline masochistic. 89, TDK trilogy, and BvS intelligently address this. Endangering a small boy, even with a similar traumatic event, let alone three of them would make no sense. And isn’t heroic or fatherly in the slightest.

We didn’t get an actual child vigilante in Nolan’s trilogy, in a bright yellow cape with elf boots fighting alongside Batman.

Nolan boiled him down to his essence and purpose in the comics, and is served through John Blake. A lineage, a legacy, a living legend to take the mantle.

Nolan’s Batman has tons of fantasy. Cars driving on rooftops. Terrorist mastermind clowns. Mercenary terrorist taking over an entire American city with a neutron bomb. Adapting stuff like the Knightfall storyline. A bat wing/bat helicopter hybrid.

It just doesn’t devolve into the hokey, cheesy, cartoonish aspects of the fantastical. A man made out of clay who can shape shift, a giant living human werewolf bat style monster. Ra’s who isn’t a LITERAL 800+ year old eco terrorist, etc.

If that’s your cup of tea, that’s cool. But not for me. And def isn’t “definitive Batman” ... there is no such thing. Just different interpretations.

Batman 89 and the Nolan trilogy, to me are the literal perfect mix and blend of the fantasy of what Batman is ... facing obstacles that best suit his material. Like you said, cops, crooked cops, thugs, petty criminals, gangsters, monsters, arms dealers, human traffickers, terrorists, and the freaks of Gotham.