The BATSUIT Thread

[BarryLyndon]

Batman will be Batman in this movie, no worries about that, and I'm sure it will be the first time where we get more of the caped crusader than Bruce Wayne.

But like Reeves said he'll have an arc which has to make him change during the course of the movie, he will evolve over the trilogy like any character has to, without having to explain where he came from.

I just can't wait to see what his arc is and how he evolves into the greatest detective.

I see it as a mixed of Chinatown and Godfather.

Maybe he'll learn the hard way and that will make him more alone and obsessed with his batman persona, losing everyone in Bruce Wayne's life (not by death) for the sake of the city.

Basically in the end the bad guy wins and Batman doubt if he ever will be able to change things, that he's just a man, who lost a battle but maybe not the war, so he continues, like every good detective.

 

[harrier1215]

And even in Titans its a dream sequenece

Batman will be Batman in this movie, no worries about that, and I'm sure it will be the first time where we get more of the caped crusader than Bruce Wayne.

But like Reeves said he'll have an arc which has to make him change during the course of the movie, he will evolve over the trilogy like any character has to, without having to explain where he came from.

I just can't wait to see what his arc is and how he evolves into the greatest detective.

I see it as a mixed of Chinatown and Godfather.

Maybe he'll learn the hard way and that will make him more alone and obsessed with his batman persona, losing everyone in Bruce Wayne's life (not by death) for the sake of the city.

Basically in the end the bad guy wins and Batman doubt if he ever will be able to change things, that he's just a man, who lost a battle but maybe not the war, so he continues, like every good detective.

I'm all for character change, I am not for Batman becoming this lonely sad person. Somewhere along the line writers started thinking the only way to write interesting Batman stories was to go this route. Not good.

 

[BarryLyndon]

And even in Titans its a dream sequenece

I'm all for character change, I am not for Batman becoming this lonely sad person. Somewhere along the line writers started thinking the only way to write interesting Batman stories was to go this route. Not good.

On the contrary he will like to be Batman and it may well be an obsession to him.

But I think the fact that he’s human will make him realise he can’t stop everyone or save everyone.

Plus with their detective angle they’re going, I think it’s safe to say he’ll be a loner because of his “job”. I mean, the guy dresses as a bat to fight crime in a city of violence, he just can’t be happy about it all.

I just don’t get how you see him? You want him proud with no psychological problem whatsoever?

if he always see murder case and bad guys doing horrible things all the time, it plays on your mind and philosophy of life. I’ve never seen a detective film where the main character is all happy about his hard case.

 

[harrier1215]

On the contrary he will like to be Batman and it may well be an obsession to him.

But I think the fact that he’s human will make him realise he can’t stop everyone or save everyone.

Plus with their detective angle they’re going, I think it’s safe to say he’ll be a loner because of his “job”. I mean, the guy dresses as a bat to fight crime in a city of violence, he just can’t be happy about it all.

I just don’t get how you see him? You want him proud with no psychological problem whatsoever?

if he always see murder case and bad guys doing horrible things all the time, it plays on your mind and philosophy of life. I’ve never seen a detective film where the main character is all happy about his hard case.

There have been plenty of characters who do detective work who can be happy as well or at least be close to people. Look at procedural detective shows. Psych, Elementary, The Mentalist etc... Him being alone or not even being warm to Alfred is just bad writing...The better stories are where he realizes he and Gotham are better when he works with people.

 

[BarryLyndon]

There have been plenty of characters who do detective work who can be happy as well or at least be close to people. Look at procedural detective shows. Psych, Elementary, The Mentalist etc... Him being alone or not even being warm to Alfred is just bad writing...The better stories are where he realizes he and Gotham are better when he works with people.

I'm sure he'll try to have accomplice from time to time, but I also think the only person he will trust will be Gordon, Alfred and that new woman character which we think may be killed in the beginning. Catwoman is too unstable to gain his trust for now.

Plus, with the esthetics being homemade (motorcycle from different pieces, Batmobile rumored as a modified muscle car and his fabric/armor suit) this iteration of Batman is already pretty much a loner who doesn't involve anyone in his routine as the caped crusader. It's all very personal to him.

I personally like him as a loner who does this because it's the only thing that's worth living for him. It's an obsession or a drug which heals his suffering because he's a really troubled person.

But hey, neither you and I will ever get the Batman we have in our head, except if we one day publish a comic book or write a movie about him, which is very unlikely. We just have to respect Matt Reeves vision as long as it respects the spirit of the character and makes for a great movie.

 

[shauner111]

Selina isn’t mentally unstable. She’s perfectly sane. But her relationship with Batman should be “friends with benefits”.

 

[Wheels]

Selina isn’t mentally unstable. She’s perfectly sane. But her relationship with Batman should be “friends with benefits”.

I think he means unstable in the sense that she's ruled by whims and is kinda flaky. One minute she's on your side, the next she puts a knife in your back, depends on the day.

 

[Schlosser85]

Selina isn't (or shouldn't be) mentally unstable, but she's "unstable" in the sense of fluid loyalties and shifting allegiances. She's on her own "side" and is motivated above all by her own survival.

 

[godisawesome]

I think he means unstable in the sense that she's ruled by whims and is kinda flaky. One minute she's on your side, the next she puts a knife in your back, depends on the day.

Selina isn't (or shouldn't be) mentally unstable, but she's "unstable" in the sense of fluid loyalties and shifting allegiances. She's on her own "side" and is motivated above all by her own survival.

I’ve always preferred the idea of Catwoman who’s not truly flaky, but instead merely so cynical and pragmatic that 80% of the time she seems totally ruled by what position gives her the best material benefit... but with about 10% of her that can be spitefully but justifivengeful and 10% genuinely selfless and heroic, and that last bit being the part that gives even a knowing Batman reason to still risk more than the wise amount of alliances.

Like, Catwoman has absolutely no concern about victimless crimes, or if a rich dude gets murdered when he could have somehow prevented that by not cheating on his wife, going to the cops with the right info, or hiring the right bodyguards.

But if she finds out that some human traffickers are operating in her neighborhood of the East End, she’s going to destroy their organization as brutally as possible. She’ll still liquidate their resources primarily for herself, of course, but the kids she frees are going to have someone she knows will actually look out for them get help.

And while she’d be able to justify stabbing Batman in the back for a trap if he’s been pursuing her, she’s also not going to sell him out even under torture if he hires her for a job that has some genuinely appealing part to it, like if he’s dismantling the Falcones she hates or he’s rescuing some kidnapped children. She doesn’t seek out heroism at all, but has a few heroism buttons that circumstances *can* push, and has the seeds planted fo be a protective warrior for her side of the tracks when push comes to shove.

So, basically, I’d prefer a Catwoman who Batman knows is out for herself enough times that they remain opponents, but who has just the smallest amount of dependable rules and standards that they can be frenemies most of the time, and occasionally even strong allies against the right opponent.

I’d love it if this series wound up combining her Protector of the East End role with her turn as Queenpin of Gotham, so that when she and Batman are older, there’s this funky dynamic that their frenemy status has almost become a cemented part of the city’s criminal and crime fighting landscape; Batman only occasionally ventures onto her turf because she keeps most of the violent crime he’s focused on out of the streets, and other super-criminals resent her being someone he doesn’t target and that they can’t get her cooperation beyond a certain point because she's secured... but the GCPD is still building a case against her, and Batman has serious contingency plans for if he has to take her down... whenever she’s not one fo his best sources for information, of course.

 

[BarryLyndon]

I’ve always preferred the idea of Catwoman who’s not truly flaky, but instead merely so cynical and pragmatic that 80% of the time she seems totally ruled by what position gives her the best material benefit... but with about 10% of her that can be spitefully but justifivengeful and 10% genuinely selfless and heroic, and that last bit being the part that gives even a knowing Batman reason to still risk more than the wise amount of alliances.

Like, Catwoman has absolutely no concern about victimless crimes, or if a rich dude gets murdered when he could have somehow prevented that by not cheating on his wife, going to the cops with the right info, or hiring the right bodyguards.

But if she finds out that some human traffickers are operating in her neighborhood of the East End, she’s going to destroy their organization as brutally as possible. She’ll still liquidate their resources primarily for herself, of course, but the kids she frees are going to have someone she knows will actually look out for them get help.

And while she’d be able to justify stabbing Batman in the back for a trap if he’s been pursuing her, she’s also not going to sell him out even under torture if he hires her for a job that has some genuinely appealing part to it, like if he’s dismantling the Falcones she hates or he’s rescuing some kidnapped children. She doesn’t seek out heroism at all, but has a few heroism buttons that circumstances *can* push, and has the seeds planted fo be a protective warrior for her side of the tracks when push comes to shove.

So, basically, I’d prefer a Catwoman who Batman knows is out for herself enough times that they remain opponents, but who has just the smallest amount of dependable rules and standards that they can be frenemies most of the time, and occasionally even strong allies against the right opponent.

I’d love it if this series wound up combining her Protector of the East End role with her turn as Queenpin of Gotham, so that when she and Batman are older, there’s this funky dynamic that their frenemy status has almost become a cemented part of the city’s criminal and crime fighting landscape; Batman only occasionally ventures onto her turf because she keeps most of the violent crime he’s focused on out of the streets, and other super-criminals resent her being someone he doesn’t target and that they can’t get her cooperation beyond a certain point because she's secured... but the GCPD is still building a case against her, and Batman has serious contingency plans for if he has to take her down... whenever she’s not one fo his best sources for information, of course.

I agree with this, I just think that since this is his second year as Batman, he may not be fully confident in Selina's actions or purpose or even know her. Basically I always saw their first encounter to be unclear in the mind of Batman, he wants to trust her but he just can't at first, she still is a criminal in Batman's view, just not the type he looks for.

The frenemies relationship you're talking about would be more suitable after they known each other for a few more years, so maybe more in the second or third film.

Plus their relationship could even evolve in each films, going from enemy to ally.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I’ve always preferred the idea of Catwoman who’s not truly flaky, but instead merely so cynical and pragmatic that 80% of the time she seems totally ruled by what position gives her the best material benefit... but with about 10% of her that can be spitefully but justifivengeful and 10% genuinely selfless and heroic, and that last bit being the part that gives even a knowing Batman reason to still risk more than the wise amount of alliances.

Like, Catwoman has absolutely no concern about victimless crimes, or if a rich dude gets murdered when he could have somehow prevented that by not cheating on his wife, going to the cops with the right info, or hiring the right bodyguards.

But if she finds out that some human traffickers are operating in her neighborhood of the East End, she’s going to destroy their organization as brutally as possible. She’ll still liquidate their resources primarily for herself, of course, but the kids she frees are going to have someone she knows will actually look out for them get help.

And while she’d be able to justify stabbing Batman in the back for a trap if he’s been pursuing her, she’s also not going to sell him out even under torture if he hires her for a job that has some genuinely appealing part to it, like if he’s dismantling the Falcones she hates or he’s rescuing some kidnapped children. She doesn’t seek out heroism at all, but has a few heroism buttons that circumstances *can* push, and has the seeds planted fo be a protective warrior for her side of the tracks when push comes to shove.

So, basically, I’d prefer a Catwoman who Batman knows is out for herself enough times that they remain opponents, but who has just the smallest amount of dependable rules and standards that they can be frenemies most of the time, and occasionally even strong allies against the right opponent.

I’d love it if this series wound up combining her Protector of the East End role with her turn as Queenpin of Gotham, so that when she and Batman are older, there’s this funky dynamic that their frenemy status has almost become a cemented part of the city’s criminal and crime fighting landscape; Batman only occasionally ventures onto her turf because she keeps most of the violent crime he’s focused on out of the streets, and other super-criminals resent her being someone he doesn’t target and that they can’t get her cooperation beyond a certain point because she's secured... but the GCPD is still building a case against her, and Batman has serious contingency plans for if he has to take her down... whenever she’s not one fo his best sources for information, of course.

Yes

 

[Jig96v]

I just don’t get how you see him? You want him proud with no psychological problem whatsoever?

if he always see murder case and bad guys doing horrible things all the time, it plays on your mind and philosophy of life. I’ve never seen a detective film where the main character is all happy about his hard case.

Yes. That's what makes him a hero. I'm sick of the edgy "Batman's just as crazy as his villains" take. It's an interesting point for a Hugo Strange to make, but ultimately, crucially, Batman proves them wrong.

 

[shauner111]

He definitely has issues. He’s not as crazy as his villains, but dude needs serious help.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I still believe Batman has a form of OCD.

 

[emielaen]

I’ve always preferred the idea of Catwoman who’s not truly flaky, but instead merely so cynical and pragmatic that 80% of the time she seems totally ruled by what position gives her the best material benefit... but with about 10% of her that can be spitefully but justifivengeful and 10% genuinely selfless and heroic, and that last bit being the part that gives even a knowing Batman reason to still risk more than the wise amount of alliances.

Like, Catwoman has absolutely no concern about victimless crimes, or if a rich dude gets murdered when he could have somehow prevented that by not cheating on his wife, going to the cops with the right info, or hiring the right bodyguards.

But if she finds out that some human traffickers are operating in her neighborhood of the East End, she’s going to destroy their organization as brutally as possible. She’ll still liquidate their resources primarily for herself, of course, but the kids she frees are going to have someone she knows will actually look out for them get help.

And while she’d be able to justify stabbing Batman in the back for a trap if he’s been pursuing her, she’s also not going to sell him out even under torture if he hires her for a job that has some genuinely appealing part to it, like if he’s dismantling the Falcones she hates or he’s rescuing some kidnapped children. She doesn’t seek out heroism at all, but has a few heroism buttons that circumstances *can* push, and has the seeds planted fo be a protective warrior for her side of the tracks when push comes to shove.

So, basically, I’d prefer a Catwoman who Batman knows is out for herself enough times that they remain opponents, but who has just the smallest amount of dependable rules and standards that they can be frenemies most of the time, and occasionally even strong allies against the right opponent.

I’d love it if this series wound up combining her Protector of the East End role with her turn as Queenpin of Gotham, so that when she and Batman are older, there’s this funky dynamic that their frenemy status has almost become a cemented part of the city’s criminal and crime fighting landscape; Batman only occasionally ventures onto her turf because she keeps most of the violent crime he’s focused on out of the streets, and other super-criminals resent her being someone he doesn’t target and that they can’t get her cooperation beyond a certain point because she's secured... but the GCPD is still building a case against her, and Batman has serious contingency plans for if he has to take her down... whenever she’s not one fo his best sources for information, of course.

You win.

 

[Maze]

Without going to the extreme "Batman is crazy" take, maybe i didn't quite understand the point that some wanted to make (and if so i'm sorry) but i fail to see good stories, where he is as the forefront without problematic psychological problems, whatsoever?

Where is the conflict? Where is the story?

 

[godisawesome]

Without going to the extreme "Batman is crazy" take, maybe i didn't quite understand the point that some wanted to make (and if so i'm sorry) but i fail to see good stories, where he is as the forefront without problematic psychological problems, whatsoever?

Where is the conflict? Where is the story?

The tricky part with Batman and the question of Bruce's sanity is that he doesn't exist in a rational world, and thus the definition of insanity or psychological problems gets bent a little bit with him.

There's a plenty of Batman stories where him being a rich dude who dresses as a bat and privately hunts down criminals ends up being portrayed as the closest thing int he setting to a rational choice - the more you exaggerate the threat level of his enemies, emphasize the corruption and ineptitude of the non-Gordon police force, the harder you have to work to portray Batman as someone who has psychological problems considering his context.

Like, Bruce Wayne is often shown in a mental and emotional state that could use therapy... but not necessarily the kind of therapy that would have a negative stigma attached to it. It really depends on who's doing the writing, and hwat story they're going for.

The Bale Batman actually seems a bit more emotionally level and sane as Batman than he was as the turbulent and directionless Bruce Wayne beforehand. Bronze Age Batman was fine. Post-Crisis Batman is an example who bounces between levels of sanity, but vacillates between someone who's been worn down by his career and someone still wrecked by the trauma of his childhood. Miller tends towards the more disturbed and loving it personality, King wanted a reflective man who knows his problems and is sometimes unaware of them, and Snyder and Morrison both went with more "crazy awesome" types of mental states.

Batman and Bruce can be a complicated individual dealing with emotional turmoil and still come off as mentally healthy, or as nuts. It's mostly just down to the quality of the script whether it works or not.

 

[Maze]

i'm in agreement with everything that you said. That was not quite the question that i asked ha ha ha but thanks, for your lengty and detailed post

 

[BarryLyndon]

Yes. That's what makes him a hero. I'm sick of the edgy "Batman's just as crazy as his villains" take. It's an interesting point for a Hugo Strange to make, but ultimately, crucially, Batman proves them wrong.

It's a way to see it, but it really is one dimensional. Personally I find it dull if he's just a ''perfect'' hero with no weakness whatsoever. For a lot of people, he's not a boyscout ala captain america or superman. (if that's not what you meant, sorry). They are even comics where Batman narrates that he will never be a hero like the Man of Steel cause he's too much on the borders and relies on fear.

And well, you may be disappointed in this new iterations of Matt Reeves and Robert Pattinson as it seems they're going the gritty and grounded route. So from a realistic lens, I don't see any way that a man who dresses up as a bat at night and fight evil while leaving his personal life behind would be perfectly sane. For me, that's what makes him human, believable and interesting.

He's a hero because he fights for a greater cause and he never gives up, no matter the case.
And personally, I think that's what makes him a great character, a troubled man who's only obsession and purpose is catching bad guys one after another to fulfill what he thinks is his destiny.

Sure he may like what he does like TAS but I also think it's greatly caused by his trauma. So he may not be crazy but he clearly has mental issues.

Basically he can prove wrong his enemy while not being completely sane, one does not prevent the other.

 

[BarryLyndon]

The tricky part with Batman and the question of Bruce's sanity is that he doesn't exist in a rational world, and thus the definition of insanity or psychological problems gets bent a little bit with him.

There's a plenty of Batman stories where him being a rich dude who dresses as a bat and privately hunts down criminals ends up being portrayed as the closest thing int he setting to a rational choice - the more you exaggerate the threat level of his enemies, emphasize the corruption and ineptitude of the non-Gordon police force, the harder you have to work to portray Batman as someone who has psychological problems considering his context.

Like, Bruce Wayne is often shown in a mental and emotional state that could use therapy... but not necessarily the kind of therapy that would have a negative stigma attached to it. It really depends on who's doing the writing, and hwat story they're going for.

The Bale Batman actually seems a bit more emotionally level and sane as Batman than he was as the turbulent and directionless Bruce Wayne beforehand. Bronze Age Batman was fine. Post-Crisis Batman is an example who bounces between levels of sanity, but vacillates between someone who's been worn down by his career and someone still wrecked by the trauma of his childhood. Miller tends towards the more disturbed and loving it personality, King wanted a reflective man who knows his problems and is sometimes unaware of them, and Snyder and Morrison both went with more "crazy awesome" types of mental states.

Batman and Bruce can be a complicated individual dealing with emotional turmoil and still come off as mentally healthy, or as nuts. It's mostly just down to the quality of the script whether it works or not.

Sure if they assume the fantasy route like Burton (Which I love), you don't have to explain it all and you don't need to rationalise every of his actions and go full psychological.

But ultimately, a movie that abords these questions in an intelligent way can be really interesting. It would make for a great piece of art instead of just a great adaptions of a comics (which isn't bad either). I think Batman may be the only hero who can go that route, so i'm more than welcome to it.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

The tricky part with Batman and the question of Bruce's sanity is that he doesn't exist in a rational world, and thus the definition of insanity or psychological problems gets bent a little bit with him.

There's a plenty of Batman stories where him being a rich dude who dresses as a bat and privately hunts down criminals ends up being portrayed as the closest thing int he setting to a rational choice - the more you exaggerate the threat level of his enemies, emphasize the corruption and ineptitude of the non-Gordon police force, the harder you have to work to portray Batman as someone who has psychological problems considering his context.

Like, Bruce Wayne is often shown in a mental and emotional state that could use therapy... but not necessarily the kind of therapy that would have a negative stigma attached to it. It really depends on who's doing the writing, and hwat story they're going for.

The Bale Batman actually seems a bit more emotionally level and sane as Batman than he was as the turbulent and directionless Bruce Wayne beforehand. Bronze Age Batman was fine. Post-Crisis Batman is an example who bounces between levels of sanity, but vacillates between someone who's been worn down by his career and someone still wrecked by the trauma of his childhood. Miller tends towards the more disturbed and loving it personality, King wanted a reflective man who knows his problems and is sometimes unaware of them, and Snyder and Morrison both went with more "crazy awesome" types of mental states.

Batman and Bruce can be a complicated individual dealing with emotional turmoil and still come off as mentally healthy, or as nuts. It's mostly just down to the quality of the script whether it works or not.

Excellent post.

 

[Vaibow]

Without going to the extreme "Batman is crazy" take, maybe i didn't quite understand the point that some wanted to make (and if so i'm sorry) but i fail to see good stories, where he is as the forefront without problematic psychological problems, whatsoever?

Where is the conflict? Where is the story?

I think Keaton/Burton understood it best (of the movie world at least) that you need a little crazy in you, to be Batman.

Going around being an underground COP/fbi/detective all in one to sort of, make amends and never have people go through what he did, is one thing... but to create a persona, to stalk victims, use theatrics, it's quirky at best, but when you strip it away, it's just a victim trying to make sense of it all.

This is my issue with batfleck - it was too comic book for me. He looked ridiculous alongside the rest - some things that look awesome on page, look crazy on the screen. IN MY OPINION, lol.

The sculpted abs, muscles... it was just... weird. At least Nolan and Reeves are going with armour and theatrics in a grounded way.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

This is my issue with batfleck - it was too comic book for me. He looked ridiculous alongside the rest - some things that look awesome on page, look crazy on the screen. IN MY OPINION, lol.

The sculpted abs, muscles... it was just... weird. At least Nolan and Reeves are going with armour and theatrics in a grounded way.

So true. I've always preferred the more armoured Batsuits for live-action. Batman Returns and Batman Begins are my two very favourites. I also thought Affleck looked fantastic in the armoured BvS suit.

 

[Vaibow]

So true. I've always preferred the more armoured Batsuits for live-action. Batman Returns and Batman Begins are my two very favourites. I also thought Affleck looked fantastic in the armoured BvS suit.

totally, it just seems weirdly erotic that Bruce would be interested in making the armour look organic - the jl suit, as large, puffy as it was, was way better.

 

[TheBattinson]

I think Keaton/Burton understood it best (of the movie world at least) that you need a little crazy in you, to be Batman.

Going around being an underground COP/fbi/detective all in one to sort of, make amends and never have people go through what he did, is one thing... but to create a persona, to stalk victims, use theatrics, it's quirky at best, but when you strip it away, it's just a victim trying to make sense of it all.

This is my issue with batfleck - it was too comic book for me. He looked ridiculous alongside the rest - some things that look awesome on page, look crazy on the screen. IN MY OPINION, lol.

The sculpted abs, muscles... it was just... weird. At least Nolan and Reeves are going with armour and theatrics in a grounded way.

The most brilliant post I’ve read in my time here. 100% totally spot on. Literally everything.