Guardians of the Galaxy The Benicio Del Toro Thread - Who Is He Playing?

[jaqua99]

Spoiler

If The Collector foresaw Thanos destroying half the universe with the Infinity Gauntlet, why on earth would he try to create it himself...? That would be like trying to stop a runaway train by speeding it up.

Spoiler

dude, not me, or anyone else supporting this idea have said Collector would try to create it. All I am saying is that he would take them, and basically hide them so that not only Thanos can't destroy the universe, but the gems stay safe with the beings who probably deserve to watch over them. The freakin Elders of the Universe

 

[cherokeesam]

Spoiler

dude, not me, or anyone else supporting this idea have said Collector would try to create it. All I am saying is that he would take them, and basically hide them so that not only Thanos can't destroy the universe, but the gems stay safe with the beings who probably deserve to watch over them. The freakin Elders of the Universe

Yes, the Elders of the Universe.....the guys Thanos stole all the Gems from in the first place. Yep, the Gems are definitely safe in their hands.

*koff*Collector Champion Gardener Runner Grandmaster *koff*

 

[InternetPeople]

Spoiler

If The Collector foresaw Thanos destroying half the universe with the Infinity Gauntlet, why on earth would he try to create it himself...? That would be like trying to stop a runaway train by speeding it up.

No, that would be like replacing the conductor before the train got started

 

[cherokeesam]

No, that would be like replacing the conductor before the train got started

Engineer, you mean. But yeah, I get what you meant; but that's just replacing one engineer who lets the train run away with *another* engineer who lets the train run away.

In other words, even if the MCU tries to take a dump on one of the most beloved storylines in Marvel history and retcon the whole damn thing, then making The Collector create the Gauntlet just makes him the most powerful and most dangerous being in the whole universe instead of Thanos. Which would render Thanos entirely redundant in the MCU.

Pretty sure that's not part of the plan.

 

[TRM]

Engineer, you mean. But yeah, I get what you meant; but that's just replacing one engineer who lets the train run away with *another* engineer who lets the train run away.

In other words, even if the MCU tries to take a dump on one of the most beloved storylines in Marvel history and retcon the whole damn thing, then making The Collector create the Gauntlet just makes him the most powerful and most dangerous being in the whole universe instead of Thanos. Which would render Thanos entirely redundant in the MCU.

Pretty sure that's not part of the plan.

You're still thinking that Collector would be trying to assemble the infinity gautlet instead of trying to keep the gems safe, to stop them from being assembled, however this wouldn't work.... It would spread out the Infinity Quest across movies. Regardless of my whole Thanos possessing Collector idea, I think what we're saying is that whatever anyone does to try to stall Thanos's own quest for the gems will not work anyway.

This would be someone trying to compete with Thanos, however Thanos ultimately succeeds by Avengers 3, so it could simply be a way to stretch out the Infinity quest across movies and have someone try to stall Thanos. Collector would fail, because of something like destiny not being able to be avoided, or something.

In the comics Knowwhere is used to calculate things based on probabilities and view timelines, they view the ends of many timelines, not just one. So even if Collector is acting to stop the future and Yondu is a fugitive from this disastrous 31st century, it could be that the future is hard to avoid and in 50% of the timelines, half of the universe is destroyed by the 31st century, or for example maybe sometimes there is no 31st century for Yondu to return to.
It would just explain how Del Toro would be in multiple films and not be Thanos. Someone who moves across movies for the light side, and maybe not a guardian of the galaxy but maybe secretly a part of the group called Infinity Watch... He could be at every turn trying to get to the infinity gems before Thanos gets them, and puts one in a museum that the Kree guard, thinking it was safely guarded there before Thanos comes directly after Collector's mind.

Maybe something like Collector putting Drax in suspended animation inadvertently creates Infinity Watch in the first place... Moondragon is drax's daughter and would get abducted from Earth to Titan before Drax got to space... way before this story would start... an "adopted" daughter of Thanos similar to Nebula or Gamora. Maybe' it's drax's destiny to kill Thanos, and only Thanos/Collector could forsee this, which would be the future Thanos wants to avoid, Drax's intended purpose... If he also put Warlock in suspended animation, this could have affected the makeup of infinity watch. If Warlock was in the story right now he would act as a force who watches over the infinity gems. Warlock, Moondragon, and Drax are members of Infinity Watch, but can't form it yet.
What I'm thinking is that the Elder of the Universe's mind/body eventually sides with those who are trying to protect the entire timeline, and all of Infinity, but that Thanos outsmarts everyone, including supreme intelligence, and ends up with a gem or two before GoTG ends.

 

[cherokeesam]

You're still thinking that Collector would be trying to assemble the infinity gautlet instead of trying to keep the gems safe, to stop them from being assembled, however this wouldn't work.... It would spread out the Infinity Quest across movies. Regardless of my whole Thanos possessing Collector idea, I think what we're saying is that whatever anyone does to try to stall Thanos's own quest for the gems will not work anyway.

This would be someone trying to compete with Thanos, however Thanos ultimately succeeds by Avengers 3, so it could simply be a way to stretch out the Infinity quest across movies and have someone try to stall Thanos. Collector would fail, because of something like destiny not being able to be avoided, or something.

In the comics Knowwhere is used to calculate things based on probabilities and view timelines, they view the ends of many timelines, not just one. So even if Collector is acting to stop the future and Yondu is a fugitive from this disastrous 31st century, it could be that the future is hard to avoid and in 50% of the timelines, half of the universe is destroyed by the 31st century, or for example maybe sometimes there is no 31st century for Yondu to return to.
It would just explain how Del Toro would be in multiple films and not be Thanos. Someone who moves across movies for the light side, and maybe not a guardian of the galaxy but maybe secretly a part of the group called Infinity Watch... He could be at every turn trying to get to the infinity gems before Thanos gets them, and puts one in a museum that the Kree guard, thinking it was safely guarded there before Thanos comes directly after Collector's mind.

Maybe something like Collector putting Drax in suspended animation inadvertently creates Infinity Watch in the first place... Moondragon is drax's daughter and would get abducted from Earth to Titan before Drax got to space... way before this story would start... an "adopted" daughter of Thanos similar to Nebula or Gamora. Maybe' it's drax's destiny to kill Thanos, and only Thanos/Collector could forsee this, which would be the future Thanos wants to avoid, Drax's intended purpose... If he also put Warlock in suspended animation, this could have affected the makeup of infinity watch. If Warlock was in the story right now he would act as a force who watches over the infinity gems. Warlock, Moondragon, and Drax are members of Infinity Watch, but can't form it yet.
What I'm thinking is that the Elder of the Universe's mind/body eventually sides with those who are trying to protect the entire timeline, and all of Infinity, but that Thanos outsmarts everyone, including supreme intelligence, and ends up with a gem or two before GoTG ends.

Thing about it is, the trades keep describing BDT as "a supervillain," so The Collector, regardless of whether or not he turns out to be an alias or puppet or henchie or just his own guy, is most definitely a bad guy. And yeah, villains can fight villains, obviously, but there comes a point where two villains with the same uberpowers competing for the same end (i.e., collecting all the Gems) becomes confusing and ultimately redundant. Not to mention frustrating to fanboys who already "know the 'real' story," and who have been expecting Thanos to don the Gauntlet ever since he first appeared in the MCU.

Making The Collector just be a front for Thanos keeps it relatively simple, and relatively true to the IG canon; all these other theories advanced for Collector story arcs require a great deal of retconning canon, and needlessly complicated plot twists.

 

[Hyde]

Just keep it as it is in the comics. The Collector is collecting the Gems because he forsees Thanos destroying the universe with the Gauntlet.

That's simple and effective.

 

[cherokeesam]

Just keep it as it is in the comics. The Collector is collecting the Gems because he forsees Thanos destroying the universe with the Gauntlet.

That's simple and effective.

Except that's not at all what Collector is doing in the comics.

The Collector collected exactly *one* Gem, the Reality Gem. And he didn't even have a clue what kind of power it had. Thanos was able to easily trick Collector into trading it to him. And the Infinity Gems were gathered by the Elders to subdue Galactus, *not* Thanos. Guess what the odds are of Galactus ever becoming part of the MCU....?

 

[jaqua99]

The Marvel Cinematic Universe is an alternate reality from the 616, and the ultimate, and the zombies. It's its own established universe, it can take influence from 616, but with it being an established universe, Earth19999x or whatever, then it doesn't have to be a copy of 616. BDT is not playing Thanos, nor is collector a front for Thanos. Having "The Collector" as a front for Thanos is way to cliche and is just utterly lame, given (the "apparent") Mandarin twist.

 

[Hyde]

Except that's not at all what Collector is doing in the comics.

The Collector collected exactly *one* Gem, the Reality Gem. And he didn't even have a clue what kind of power it had. Thanos was able to easily trick Collector into trading it to him. And the Infinity Gems were gathered by the Elders to subdue Galactus, *not* Thanos. Guess what the odds are of Galactus ever becoming part of the MCU....?

Well that's how I thought it went down.

Despite that it's still a better and simpler plot thread than "hez thanoz", or "thanoz iz control culektor" or whatever.

 

[Zarex]

Well that's how I thought it went down.

Despite that it's still a better and simpler plot thread than "hez thanoz", or "thanoz iz control culektor" or whatever.

Feige and company having two powerful cosmic entities plotting behind the scenes and collecting gems adds unnecessary plot complexity. And having the big purple guy show up late to the party saying "Yoinks - gems is mine!" strips an awful lot of the fun from The Thanos Quest story.

 

[cherokeesam]

The Marvel Cinematic Universe is an alternate reality from the 616, and the ultimate, and the zombies. It's its own established universe, it can take influence from 616, but with it being an established universe, Earth19999x or whatever, then it doesn't have to be a copy of 616. BDT is not playing Thanos, nor is collector a front for Thanos. Having "The Collector" as a front for Thanos is way to cliche and is just utterly lame, given (the "apparent") Mandarin twist.

Again with the Mandarin Twist. Two entirely separate things. The Mandarin Twist features the main, real, villain creating an entirely fictitious one to distract the good guys from his shady deals. The "Thanos Twist" would feature the main, real, villain disguising (alt: insinuating through soul possession or mind control) himself as someone else (who may or may not exist "in real life") in order to lure the good guys to him, so that he can steal their ****. (Which is exactly what he did in Thanos Quest.)

And I really wish people would stop trying to use "it's the movies, not comics" to try to dismiss theories they don't agree with. We all know the MCU has to take liberties with canon; but Feige also tries his damnedest to pay lip service to canon in most cases....otherwise, what's the point of making INO characters and plots if they don't at least *faintly* resemble the original?

What I'm describing *faintly* resembles the original tellings of Thanos, The Collector, and Thanos Quest. What you and Hyde are postulating makes both characters, and the Gems and the Gauntlet, INOs that become something entirely different from the comics.

 

[Hyde]

Feige and company having two powerful cosmic entities plotting behind the scenes and collecting gems adds unnecessary plot complexity. And having the big purple guy show up late to the party saying "Yoinks - gems is mine!" strips an awful lot of the fun from The Thanos Quest story.

Except we already know that the [BLACKOUT]mid-credits scene of Thor 2 is the Collector collecting an Infinity Gem.[/BLACKOUT]

Spoiler

If the scene was different or was Thanos instead of the Collector, then the Thanos Quest adaptation would be more plausible but it's obvious that this is the Collector collecting the Gems. In the comics, he forsaw the destruction of the Universe at the hands of Thanos and the IG which is a very good reason for wanting to collect the Gems.

He'll be seen as a supervillain by the Guardians at first because of doing this, but over time they and the audience will come to learn that he's trying to protect people. Just watch. I can guarantee that the story will resemble something like that.

 

[Neo_3]

Except we already know that the [BLACKOUT]mid-credits scene of Thor 2 is the Collector collecting an Infinity Gem.[/BLACKOUT]

Spoiler

If the scene was different or was Thanos instead of the Collector, then the Thanos Quest adaptation would be more plausible but it's obvious that this is the Collector collecting the Gems. In the comics, he forsaw the destruction of the Universe at the hands of Thanos and the IG which is a very good reason for wanting to collect the Gems.

He'll be seen as a supervillain by the Guardians at first because of doing this, but over time they and the audience will come to learn that he's trying to protect people. Just watch. I can guarantee that the story will resemble something like that.

Spoiler

In the comics did the Collector ever collect the gems? Maybe in Ant-Man will get a hint of the Collector's real motive in having the gem. Collector could get 3 gems, while Thanos has the other 3 and in Ant-Man through TA3, Thanos could get the other 3, or something like that?

Will be interesting how the Collector is portrayed throughout the movie.

 

[Hyde]

And the next few years of the MCU. This is a story which is going to be worked on and built up until at least 2018 - whatever it is they've got planned, it's going to be worth it.

 

[InternetPeople]

While it may not be comic canon, I think I would prefer seeing two cosmic entities racing to gobble up all the McGuffins only to have an epic battle where one is defeated for all time and the other can show off his brutality without there being true consequences for our heroes. Thanos v Collector with Gems could really show off some of their power before A3 without either side being fully powered up. Give the audience an "oh, ****! How are they going to match that?" moment without losing any key players before the fight.

Perspective matters and while the Collector may be labeled as a villain, he may actually be a hero, but because he has the same goals as Thanos, he is mislabeled and misinterpreted as having the same goals of destroying the universe.

All I know is that I am excited to see how this story plays out.

 

[cherokeesam]

Except we already know that the [BLACKOUT]mid-credits scene of Thor 2 is the Collector collecting an Infinity Gem.[/BLACKOUT]

Spoiler

If the scene was different or was Thanos instead of the Collector, then the Thanos Quest adaptation would be more plausible but it's obvious that this is the Collector collecting the Gems. In the comics, he forsaw the destruction of the Universe at the hands of Thanos and the IG which is a very good reason for wanting to collect the Gems.

He'll be seen as a supervillain by the Guardians at first because of doing this, but over time they and the audience will come to learn that he's trying to protect people. Just watch. I can guarantee that the story will resemble something like that.

Spoiler

But even in that spoiler scene, The Collector is deceiving the good guys.

I mean, I've only read about it from multiple sources, so I won't know the particulars until I can study them myself, but from what I've heard, it shows Sif and Volstagg delivering the Gem to The Collector. That means they trust him. And if he *is* a supervillain, as all the trades describe him and BDT, that means he's pulling the wool over their eyes.

The Collector isn't a good guy, period. But he's pretending that he's somebody the heroes can trust, including the Asgardians and the, er, Guardians. *That* much isn't really open for debate, unless the reports are getting it all wrong. So is it that much of a stretch to say that deception also includes a secret identity?

 

[InternetPeople]

Spoiler

But why the deception? Why would Thanos need to dress up? I think we need to know more about the relationship the Asguardians have with the Collector before we can safely say that the Collector is Thanos.

Another way of asking that would be what has Thanos done that he would need to deceive the Asguardians into giving him the gem that he could not have done as Thanos? Yes, the gauntlet was in Odin's treasure room but that is clearly being changed so is there a history we need to be aware of?

 

[Rock Sexton]

Well that's how I thought it went down.

Despite that it's still a better and simpler plot thread than "hez thanoz", or "thanoz iz control culektor" or whatever.

Ya seriously.

M. Knight Shyamalan is laughing at it.

 

[cherokeesam]

Spoiler

But why the deception? Why would Thanos need to dress up? I think we need to know more about the relationship the Asguardians have with the Collector before we can safely say that the Collector is Thanos.

Another way of asking that would be what has Thanos done that he would need to deceive the Asguardians into giving him the gem that he could not have done as Thanos? Yes, the gauntlet was in Odin's treasure room but that is clearly being changed so is there a history we need to be aware of?

We might (or might not) know more about Thanos and his place in the MCU after we see TDW. He definitely should be addressed in that movie, because he is the direct reason that Loki is imprisoned in TDW, and Loki's fate is still irrevocably tied to Thanos; but god knows, the studio is starting to get a rep for retconning and ****-canning their own continuity, let alone comic book canon (and yes, the Infinity Gauntlet seen in Thor 1 appears to already be one such casualty).

But there has to be a reason shown in that mid-credit scene that the heroes approach this quote-unquote Marvel supervillain, and I think the people who've seen it so far have overlooked it, or didn't know where to look.

 

[jaqua99]

We might (or might not) know more about Thanos and his place in the MCU after we see TDW. He definitely should be addressed in that movie, because he is the direct reason that Loki is imprisoned in TDW, and Loki's fate is still irrevocably tied to Thanos; but god knows, the studio is starting to get a rep for retconning and ****-canning their own continuity, let alone comic book canon (and yes, the Infinity Gauntlet seen in Thor 1 appears to already be one such casualty).

But there has to be a reason shown in that mid-credit scene that the heroes approach this quote-unquote Marvel supervillain, and I think the people who've seen it so far have overlooked it, or didn't know where to look.

dude?

 

[cherokeesam]

dude?

Yes. Why do you ask?

 

[BigThor]

dude?

The post I PM'ed you about is in the "Thor World" section.

 

[ctsketch]

Feige and company having two powerful cosmic entities plotting behind the scenes and collecting gems adds unnecessary plot complexity. And having the big purple guy show up late to the party saying "Yoinks - gems is mine!" strips an awful lot of the fun from The Thanos Quest story.

Well....a general complaint about some MCU movies is the lack of story or plot complexity...

 

[Rock Sexton]

Yes. Why do you ask?

You forgot to use the spoiler tags.