The Borgias

[DACrowe]

Showtime's new "historical" epic premiered last night: The Borgias.

For those who don't know, Rodrigo Borgia was an ambitious Spanish cleric who climbed his way to the papacy, becoming Pope Alexander VI...even though he got there as one of the richest men in Rome with many mistresses, one of whom was basically a wife who fathered him two sons (who he appointed as a Cardinal and the other a Papal military leader) and a daughter who grew up to be a notorious femme fatale.

So, needless to say Jeremy Irons in a premium cable show by the creator of The Tudors is going to be soaked in politics, blood, sex, incest, torture and all that other stuff.


Having just watched the premiere (on DVR), I can safely say it is great. Some are turned off as there is not as much graphic sex and violence off the bat as The Tudors, but Rodrigo was far more cunning and sneaky about his corruption than Henry VIII. Those who know just a little bit about this family knows things are going to get very bloody and very ****ed up, shortly.

I just thought the premiere (directed by The Crying Game and Interview with the Vampire's Neil Jordan) was gorgeously mounted with amazing production values. The political rivalry and early assassinations were great and suspenseful with the poison at the party. I felt sorry for the house maid who became the horse's head in The Godfather homage. And if you play the Assassin's Creed games, this will be rich.

Overall, I'm impressed. This was far more polished than when The Tudors premiered and has a lot of potential. It also blew Camelot out of the water (albeit, Game of Thrones looks like it will dominate all these shows in a few weeks).

Thoughts?


P.S. For those interested...




Here's the trailer.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I enjoyed it. And it can only get better.

 

[dsfjr1190]

Wow. That was excellent.

I'm not religious at all so I found myself surprised enjoying a show that takes place at the Vatican.

At the moment, the Pope's children are more interesting than he is. He is kind of bland in my opinion, and seems to only have the one facial expression.

Cesare, Lucrezia, and Juan are extremely entertaining to watch. I hope there is a decent amount of sibling interaction in the future. These actors have great chemistry.

 

[DACrowe]

Jeremy Irons is obviously the best actor on the show and is delicious as Rodrigo/Alexander. However, you're right that the juiciest roles are the children. Well two anyway. Cesare and Lucrezia do some....very ****ed up things in history (including, supposedly, with each other).

If you just do some basic research on the Borgias (though it will spoil the plot of the series), it seems obvious that Cesare will become the main character in future seasons considering his eventful and bloody, bloody life.

As for how Juan will interact with his siblings....just keep watching if you don't want any spoilers.

 

[Raiden]

I've been watching the first episode on Youtube (about halfway of the two-hour premiere), and I must say this first episode is as polished as it can get. The production is amazing, and the costume designer should get an award from the Emmy because everything looks so authetic. I was surprised by the seemedly lack of sex & violence, at least when compared with other Showtime series, but that may change as it's only the first episode.

This show has a great cast. Jeremy Iron is as stoic and as professional as he has always been as Pope Alexander VI, but the actors portraying his children Cesare & Lucrezia thus far really stole the show. I've read up on the House of Borgias on Wiki so I have some rudimentary ideas on this infamous crime family from the 15th century, and I look forward to see how all the dramas will unfold in the future.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I watched it last night and enjoyed it. Though I found Rodrigo to be too likable (that will change I'm sure) and the other son wasn't in it enough.

My favorite scene was when Orsini accused Rodrigo of basically buying the election and Rodrigo says "Then as pope my first act will be to investigate into the papal election process."

 

[Heisenberg]

Third episode was really good, a step up from the premiere imo. The scenes with the assassin, particularly the lead up to the botched assassination, were fantastic. To be honest, even if this got really bad I'd continue watching as Jeremy Irons' performance is captivating - no surprise there.

 

[CaptainCraig]

Skipping over any posts just to say it's in the DVR and after a few episodes I'm going to watch several in a row.

It's been my experience show like this(Tudors, Rome) are better if you string a few together.

Doing the same thing with Camelot.

 

[DACrowe]

Well I agree with the Basterd that the third episode was great. It perhaps was not as visually fantastic as the first two episodes, but now that the exposition and character introductions are out of the way it is far better paced.

The first half hour was fantastic with the assassin going after Colm Feore in the bath house and the "Last Supper" in the Sforza house. I also loved how Rodrigo's generosity towards the Jews and Ottoman guest turned so sinister in the third act. It went from making him look like a fair, open-minded Pope to him doing his first really evil thing (well compared to buying the Papal Election).

Most of all the ending where Cesare made Juan kill the Moor himself made for the next great moment of the show since Derek Jaccobi had a sip in the first hour.

This is quickly becoming my favorite new show in the last year, right behind Boardwalk Empire from the fall.

 

[DACrowe]

So did anyone watch last night's episode? I know Game of Thrones is on but Showtime replays this at 10, so you can catch both.

Anyway, I thought it was great. Honestly, this show is getting better and better with every episode. I think it is quickly becoming one of my favorite shows on TV. The introduction of the Medici family and Machiavelli was surprising, as was the appearance of the Monk Savonarola--the zealot who condemned Lorenzo Medici, the most influential patron of the Renaissance who backed many of the paintings and art that defined the era for the centuries to come, to hell for doing such. He also would eventually lead the Bonfire of the Vanities, which we may see in later seasons where he had books, jewelry and art burned--as the whack job we knew him to be. Also, the ambiguity of the Pope allowing enslavement of the Native Americans in this episode was nice.

Most of all though the drama around Lucrezia's wedding was great. I didn't realize I liked Cesare on this show until I watched this episode. It was just very well done and seeing her get raped by her husband surprised me and makes you want to see this bastard get whacked [blackout]but that's the second husband. The Pope humiliates and destroys this one though.[/blackout]

Also, am I the only one thinking that the farmer may be Cesare's father in the show? Historically that is nonsense, but it is intriguing in the show.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Tonight's episode was really good. The action is starting to pick up. I especially liked how Lucrezia is becoming corrupt by having Paolo mess with her husband's saddle so he breaks his leg.

 

[kvz5]

I surprisingly love this show. Lucrezia is definitely my favorite character.

 

[DACrowe]

^^ I know. I really love this show and it's only had 5 episodes.

Anyway, this week's wasn't as good as the last two IMO. But it was nice to see how screwed up the Principality of Milan was. But the real joy came from the corrupting of Cesare and Lucrezia in this one. Lucrezia for the first time used her feminine powers to make something she want happen happen. Not a terrible thing (her rapist pig husband had his leg broken because her stable boy messed with his saddle), but it is the first sign of the femme fatale and seductress to come.

As for Cesare, he had his first kill and it was an epic one in the rain. He finally got his hands dirty and he's on his way. It was a nice little wink to those who know history of Machiavelli meeting with Cesare and them displaying admiration for each other.

Too bad Game of Thrones has overshadowed this show. Don't get me wrong GOT is great and is probably the better of the two (albeit, GOT has only had 2 episodes to compare to TB's 5), but it seems so many people don't know about this show and it is turning out great, in my opinion.

 

[kvz5]

^ Agreed. I really thought that I would like this the least based on the hype among the big 3 premieres (Game of Thrones, Camelot, The Borgias) but this is a very, very close 2nd to me after Game of Thrones. Sadly, Camelot has fallen off my radar. With the exception of Morgan (and to an extent Merlin), most of the characters in Camelot are annoying.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Does Ezio show up? Lol.

 

[Speedball]

Does Ezio show up? Lol.

"My name is Ezio Auditore di Firenze. I am here to kill Rodrigo Borgia."
*whistles; Assassin Brotherhood appears out of nowhere*

 

[Spidey-Bat]

If only

 

[AnorexicBatman]

Does Ezio show up? Lol.

Season Finale! Imagine how awesome that would be! Assassin's Creed has the makings of a FANTASTIC science-fiction *** historical drama series

I know people will take this as an insult comparing a brilliant drama to some stupid video game but Assassin's Creed is anything but. I'll definitely keep my eye on this and hope for a real Assassin's Creed show someday.

It says something about the developer when watching the first episode I recognized every single bit of scenery despite never have gone anywhere near Italy in real life.

Think of how many viewers this show will gain BECAUSE of the game series though regardless of the Borgias infamy prior. Ironically the show seems to get the date of the Vatican's construction wrong.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Think of how many viewers this show will gain BECAUSE of the game series though regardless of the Borgias infamy prior. Ironically the show seems to get the date of the Vatican's construction wrong.

How so?

 

[AnorexicBatman]

How so?

1000 gamers will go, "OMG! THE BORGIAS! IT'S AN ASSASSIN'S CREED SHOW!!"
500 who only play for game-play will be disappointed and forget about it
The other 500 who took an interest in the deep story & historical drama based on real people and real events will stick around to learn something regardless of minor inaccuracies but secretly miss Ezio (the main character).

I'm pretty sure such a high profile show will show up on google when you type in "The Borgias"

Also, the Saint Peter's Basilica (Not Vatican as a whole) was only finished in the 17th century, and construction only began in 1506, after the death of Rodrigo Borgio. At this point, they were still using the old Constaninian basilica, which was in severe disrepair - as were all the other major churches in Rome. It's like having the Twin Towers in a Civil War period drama set in New York

 

[DACrowe]

It also has reverse effects. I received Assassin's Creed Brotherhood for Christmas, but never opened it because Assassin's Creed II (which was great) just came out and I only played it last summer. Then after watching the first 3 episodes of The Borgias, I went back and finally played Brotherhood as the bad guys are the Borgias family.

Brotherhood is a great game, but ACII is better. The greatest strength of the third AC game is the historical context of Borgia Rome with the family being real villains (as the first two did not have great villains per se). Anyway, I appreciate The Borigas more because it is actual historical fiction as opposed to sci-fi that uses history for its highly ridiculous, if entertaining plot (AC). I'd also add that it's nice in the show that characters like Cesare and Lucrezia are treated as real people, as we witness their moral and emotional decline. In the game they were very cartoonish.

But yes, if you just look at the comments on the trailer I posted at the top at least 50% of them are people going "Where's Ezio" or "It should have been called The Auditores." I don't know if any of them actually watch the show, but the game made them pay attention to the ads. I doubt many will watch a murky crime drama where only about one person dies per episode. But it increases public awareness. Strangely not only has Game of Thrones overshadowed it, but so has the lousy Starz show, Camelot. I don't know if it's because Arthur is better known or there's less competition on Friday than Sundays, but I'm shocked to see such a mediocre show (Camelot) having more buzz and better ratings than a great one (The Borgias).

BTW one thing I do want to ask about the AC games--does any of the DLC in ACII let you assassinate Savenrola--the Florentine Glenn Beck responsible for the Bonfire of the Vanities and the destruction of art in an attempt to end the Renaissance? Because that is a mission I would love to play. I was disappointed he did not appear in ACII despite it being set in Florence for half the game.

 

[DACrowe]

1000 gamers will go, "OMG! THE BORGIAS! IT'S AN ASSASSIN'S CREED SHOW!!"
500 who only play for game-play will be disappointed and forget about it
The other 500 who took an interest in the deep story & historical drama based on real people and real events will stick around to learn something regardless of minor inaccuracies but secretly miss Ezio (the main character).

I'm pretty sure such a high profile show will show up on google when you type in "The Borgias"

Also, the Saint Peter's Basilica (Not Vatican as a whole) was only finished in the 17th century, and construction only began in 1506, after the death of Rodrigo Borgio. At this point, they were still using the old Constaninian basilica, which was in severe disrepair - as were all the other major churches in Rome. It's like having the Twin Towers in a Civil War period drama set in New York

Interesting. However, if construction didn't begin until 1506, didn't ACB end up just as guilty because the Basilica is about 3/4 constructed in that game which is set from 1500-1503 (not counting the final mission epilogue). In one mission you even run around the construction, so neither got that part of history correct.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Also, the Saint Peter's Basilica (Not Vatican as a whole) was only finished in the 17th century, and construction only began in 1506, after the death of Rodrigo Borgio. At this point, they were still using the old Constaninian basilica, which was in severe disrepair - as were all the other major churches in Rome. It's like having the Twin Towers in a Civil War period drama set in New York

I meant to bold the part of the construction.

You are right on the Basilica. Was it ever shown in an episode because I don't recall it.

BTW one thing I do want to ask about the AC games--does any of the DLC in ACII let you assassinate Savenrola--the Florentine Glenn Beck responsible for the Bonfire of the Vanities and the destruction of art in an attempt to end the Renaissance? Because that is a mission I would love to play. I was disappointed he did not appear in ACII despite it being set in Florence for half the game.

Yes. The ACII DLC with Savanarola is appropriately called Bonfire of the Vanities. You can skip Battle of Forli DLC though. It takes about 45 minutes and is 90% combat. I disagree on ACII being better simply because of how much more enjoyable the fighting is. Waiting to counter was so painfully tedious.

 

[AnorexicBatman]

I meant to bold the part of the construction.

You are right on the Basilica. Was it ever shown in an episode because I don't recall it.

I only saw the first episode but noticed the St. Peter's Basilica in the trailer
I guess using it makes sense because of how well known it is.

And yes The Borgia's are a bit cartoonish in the games but watching the show the exaggeration is not that far fetched. Plus there's the whole Templar, Apple thing going on.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I haven't noticed it. The interior scenes look nothing like the Basilica. The scene where Rodrigo sees the crowd the first time as pope isn't St. Peter's square.

Interesting. However, if construction didn't begin until 1506, didn't ACB end up just as guilty because the Basilica is about 3/4 constructed in that game which is set from 1500-1503 (not counting the final mission epilogue). In one mission you even run around the construction, so neither got that part of history correct.

I think they only did that so you could climb some of it.