The Borgias

[Spidey-Bat]

Even if they didn't have chained cannonballs, what's to stop them from using the normal ones against a whole group of soldiers?

Also, I really like King Charles.

 

[DACrowe]

King Charles is a hilarious character who I love watching (and if you know history and/or played ACB, you know he'll be a frequent recurring character), however he is a real bastard who uses the ugliness of war to justify complete carnage and chaos (rape, mass murder and pillage). I like how Lucrezia tricked him out of getting to do that to Rome.

As for the cannon ball thing. That technology in Europe had been primarily designed by the French and English for their Hundred Years War (which ended so the English can now use it in the simultaneously occurring War of the Roses Civil War). The Italian city-states seem to still be living in the Middle Ages in terms of warfare with swords and bows being their primary weaponry. Their entire concept of cannons is it is a tool to knock down gates or walls....not to be fired on people in open fields.

That shows a real lack of knowledge about the developments of war in the last 50 years proceeding this show. That lack of understanding led to the humiliation we just watched.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

King Charles is a hilarious character who I love watching (and if you know history and/or played ACB, you know he'll be a frequent recurring character), however he is a real bastard who uses the ugliness of war to justify complete carnage and chaos (rape, mass murder and pillage). I like how Lucrezia tricked him out of getting to do that to Rome.

He's not much worse than anyone else in this time period. I just loved that he had no shame in pissing in a river.

As for the cannon ball thing. That technology in Europe had been primarily designed by the French and English for their Hundred Years War (which ended so the English can now use it in the simultaneously occurring War of the Roses Civil War). The Italian city-states seem to still be living in the Middle Ages in terms of warfare with swords and bows being their primary weaponry. Their entire concept of cannons is it is a tool to knock down gates or walls....not to be fired on people in open fields.

That shows a real lack of knowledge about the developments of war in the last 50 years proceeding this show. That lack of understanding led to the humiliation we just watched.

Cesare seemed to realize cannons could be used against soldiers but only kept his mouth shut so Juan wouldn't look like even more of a fool.

This is one thing I really enjoy about history. Perhaps I'm just forgetful or don't retain knowledge that well, but as you study one topic, you can completely forget about another significant event happening at the same time. I remember last year I was reading a book and pronounced Caesar as Kaiser, then realized how the latter derived from the former.

 

[DACrowe]

Yeah. Intellectually the Italians were in the Renaissance and full of great minds thinking free of medieval superstition and dogma during this time. They had their Lorenzo d'Medicis, Niccolo Machiavellis, Leonardo Da Vincis, etc. Artistically and architecturally they were flourishing. To them most of Europe seemed barbaric....but there is one thing the rest of Europe knew better....how to kill each other.

Less than a hundred years prior Henry V took Agincourt in the name of the merciful Lord....and then Joan of Arc and the French took it back less than 20 years later in the name of the merciful Lord. Now as the show begins, Columbus is discovering the New World and the British civil war/War of the Roses was finally ending (it was fought on/off for decades).

Meanwhile to the East Constantinople and the Eastern Christian Empire had just fallen to the Turks/Muslims 30 years prior and were halted from expanding west by....Vlad Tepes Dracula who was certainly still ruling a medieval land where impaling thousands of your own subjects was considered good governance.

And people say the Borgias were bloodthirsty? Well....they are, but we'll get to that in later seasons.

 

[DACrowe]

Well....I guess I'll start our limited discussion on the season finale.

As someone who loves the show and has been cheerleading it around here for the last few weeks....man, was I disappointed with that finale.

I liked the first 20 minutes or so about how the Borgias outmaneuvered the French King and della Roverie to keep the Papacy. And watching the Pope make all the Cardinals pay him off after humiliation was great.

But the second half rushing through Lucrezia's pregnancy and divorce seemed eh....well, rushed. They should have left that to begin season 2. I thought they were going to tackle Cesare killing Juan....or at least if they're trying to keep the timeline right Cesare killing Pedro (the baby's father). As it stands now, I don't know how they're going to handle that subject unless he comes asking about the baby and then gets whacked. But if they leave out Cesare killed the baby's father to soften his image....I'll be very disappointed in this show pussyfooting around one of the great stories that makes Cesare such a bastard.

But the finale where they're all happy is nice as they're (presumably) setting up for a dark second season where the bodies start hitting the floors. Still this felt like a quick fix finale on what has been a great season. For a series that up to this point every episode had been very good or great, to get this "just okay" finale was a true disappointment.

My thoughts.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I thought it was alright. The second half did feel rushed. I wish they focused more (or at least explained) on what happened in Naples. Didn't really make much sense to me that there'd be a massive outbreak of the plague yet Geoffrey and his wife were fine.

Sucks we have to wait until next year but this series has motivated me to check out The Tudors.

 

[DACrowe]

It does suck because none of the real infamous stuff the Borgias did (besides buying the papacy in the pilot) has been covered yet. I was hoping the transition from political family to shady crime family would be handled in the finale. Now we have to wait another 9 months for that.

With that said, Seasons 2-4 of The Tudors were really good (albeit, the last two are really depressing), season 1 was kind of trashy though. But it sets up the series and is the only season that has Sam Neil in it (he plays Cardinal Wolsey). So, I do recommend the show.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Have to agree about the finale. Enjoyable but last half totally rushed in almost every sense of the word. Do we know yet if Season2 will have the standard 12 episodes? Which should help them out story wise and wouldve helped this season.

And the Tudors was great. I wish they did a spin-off or something that covered Marys reign.

 

[DACrowe]

It's going to be like The Tudors for now on (Seasons 1, 2 and 4, anyway) with 10 episodes. One more might help. I imagine if they had had 10 episodes this season what we just watched would have been cut in half with the second half of the episode being a full hour. It would have helped the show.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I watched the first 2 episodes of The Tudors. It's kind of funny how they mention Pope Alexander (although it's an error since Henry's reign never coexisted with Alexander's).

 

[Shifty]

It did seem like old 24 season finales where they had to rush to fit everything into the last episode and give it a sense of closure, wrapping storylines in favour of another.
The whole season was good and has had me researching a bit (don't want too many spoilers). Season two is something to look forward to.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I kind of forgot about this show since I became consumed with Game of Thrones (which I'm sure happened with other people as well).

Season 2 airs April 8 at 10pm. Here are a couple videos I found. Looks like this season will be much more exciting

TV Spot


Trailer

 

[kvz5]

I'm excited for S2!

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Is Juan going to die soon?

 

[Colossal Spoons]

I'm excited for S2!

This

 

[Primal Slayer]

Liked the premire though I think some of the wigs are a bit worse from last season. Cant wait for the full season to start up.

 

[DACrowe]

This is back tonight. It's not GOT, but I enjoy it. So here's the bump.

 

[kvz5]

Anyone still watching this? I found the premiere episode a bit lackluster but I loved last Sunday's episode.

 

[DACrowe]

I thought I was the only one!

I thought the first two episodes were incredibly slow (also wasn't Cesare the one to kill Paolo's real life character in history?), but this latest episode was very well done and fast paced. I thought we'd have to trudge through a whole season again of them trying to outsmart the French king and then bam, they did in the last 30 minutes of episode 3. I'm glad. Hopefully, they can move onto other things.

I just hope the show finds its footing again. The first 5 episodes or so of S1 were great, but it seems that by Episode 9 (the season finale) the show had lost its way and was kind of aimless.

I enjoy the period, strangely unexplored in most film and television, and the cast and production values, so I'm sticking with it. But I wish they'd get onto why people are interested in the Borgias historically and spent less time on the Pope having a threesome, if you know what I mean.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Still watching. Really enjoyed teh last episode and Lucretia trying to kill Juan.

 

[DACrowe]

Last night's episode was really good, I thought.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Just got renewed for a 3rd season. woot woot.

 

[Crockett]

I feel bad that I haven't caught up with this, I haven't seen any episode from the current season.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I got caught up with the last 4 episode. Game of Thrones and school are distracting.

First two were kind of meh but episodes 3 and 4, especially, were well done and exciting.

 

[Golgo-13]

I'm caught up too, i'm very interested in the new girl who's posing as a boy to become an artist. She has a very Hayley Atwell vibe to her.