BvS The BvS Ultimate Cut Thread - Part 1

[idiot09]

Other way around. Most of the critics of this film fully acknowledge that it appeals to some people. Every movie does. Meanwhile, we are constantly called stupid, told we don't like it because we 'don't get it,' etc. The very first post of the positivity thread even had to spell this out because supporters of the film were simply using it as a haven to bash anyone who didn't love the film.

I think both sides are right and wrong here mate.There are some fans who think this movies is a 10/10 and others are too stupid to get it.

And then there are some fans who think this movie sucked,Snyder is a hack,and this movie is just explosings(Bay-esque) and that its dumb.

Then there are people who didnt like the film,where the bad outweighed the good,but understand there are people who liked it.

Then there are people like me,who liked that film,understood it has flaws,and believe the UC will rectify most of them.

As always is the case on internet,people love to talk in extremes.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

My guess is that once the movie came out, every thread became a skepticism thread and we all just forgot about the actual thread itself

 

[kguillou]

Its just what we passionate fans do, we debate, argue and fight and kiss and make up at the end (hopefully).

 

[Legendver2]

I see the opposite. Detractors fully accept people like this movie, it's the fans of the movie that can't accept the opposite. That's why the demanded their own special positive thread to talk in. Then they used the thread to bash the people who dislike the movie. The thread ended up being shut down because of it. It only got re-opened on the condition they never do that again, and anyone who does gets banned.

That's how bad the fans of this movie behaved. The problem is not with the detractors.

Other way around. Most of the critics of this film fully acknowledge that it appeals to some people. Every movie does. Meanwhile, we are constantly called stupid, told we don't like it because we 'don't get it,' etc. The very first post of the positivity thread even had to spell this out because supporters of the film were simply using it as a haven to bash anyone who didn't love the film.

Well I'll give you that. I started the positivity thread because I can't even talk about the themes I along with other fans without 10 other posts from detractors going "let's not pretend this movie had a deeper meaning, etc. etc." Let's be real, you know how hard it is to carry a conversation when you got 10 other people interrupting and refuting your points in between, when you aren't even debating and just want to discuss the film? That was what the positive thread was for, and I even made it clear in latter posts to not bash.

Understandably, with all the craziness going on, it's understandable that some would go in there to bash the dissenters, since they were practically not even given room to breathe outside of that thread. So that thread was understandably locked. But then we had no where to discuss the themes and deeper meaning stuff we, so luckily the thread was open again for the sole purpose of that. And that thread has been more or less on track since.

The general craziness of this forum got so insane that I had to abandon ship and reside in the JL forum. But for some reason, some of you guys went in there anyway, and got the JL spec thread locked, despite many, MANY, warnings from C. Lee to not talk about BvS, unless it's in relation to JL. So excuse me for getting a little miffed about that.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The JL speculation thread got shut down? I don't usually go to that forum, because I lost all interest in seeing Justice League after this film.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Did the skepticism thread get shut down because the skeptics were slagging off the fans, and moderators had to issue warnings for bannings?

Don't know and don't care. I read both threads. Both had terrible posters. Both got tiring to read through, which is why I jumped ship and went to the JL boards along with many others. That was at least until people kept whining about BvS in the main JL thread and it got shut down.

Like I said, there were bad apples on either side. No one is a winner here.

 

[Boom]

I just find it odd here that from what I see in these forums, fans of the movie like the movie, and accept the fact that it didn't jive with others, they would defend the film, but otherwise totally cool with the fact that some people don't like it. While detractors almost seem un-accepting of the fact that some people actually likes this film, and will tear it down to shreds regardless. It feels like they feel almost vindicated that the numbers prove to them that the movie was basically s***, and push those facts on to fans going, "Why do you still like this?! Cinemascore says you're not supposed to!"

I can understand not liking a film, heck I hated IM3, but I didn't stay on that board to rain on people. BvS was released 3 months ago, and yet we're still here talking about the same stuff lol. I would've imagined most of you guys would be in the CW and XMA forums discussing the merits of those films. Yet here you still are. Now we have a UC coming, and about 90% of you who haven't seen it yet come in here bashing it like you have . It's gotten so bad that you guys got the JL speculation thread locked. I mean come on!

Really? Because I cannot count the number of times my criticisms have been called "stupid" and "invalid."

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

No one is a winner here.

Nope, nobody is a winner with regards to the state of this franchise. Those who disliked the film because they don't like what they are getting. Those who liked the film because they are in the minority and DC is likely to make major changes going forward to try and win back the audience they lost.

All DC fans lose. And it really sucks.

 

[The Joker]

The JL speculation thread got shut down? I don't usually go to that forum, because I lost all interest in seeing Justice League after this film.

Same. I didn't even set foot in the BvS forum during the re-production days, except maybe once or twice when the Bat suit got revealed because nothing I was seeing or hearing about the movie interested me. But I waited til the movie came out, judged it for myself, and then joined in the fan discussions.

And here we are. Having to justify why a Batman fan is here discussing a Batman relate movie.

Don't know and don't care. I read both threads. Both had terrible posters. Both got tiring to read through, which is why I jumped ship and went to the JL boards along with many others. That was at least until people kept whining about BvS in the main JL thread and it got shut down.

Like I said, there were bad apples on either side. No one is a winner here.

That's alright for you, but I care because there's a big difference between some fans that are just annoying, and ones that are outright hostile and insulting, that they get a thread shut down, and banning warnings issued.

I'm not talking winners or losers here, but that kind of behavior is far worse than reading posts you find tiresome. At least you're not being verbally attacked there.

 

[Legendver2]

Did the skepticism thread get shut down because the skeptics were slagging off the fans, and moderators had to issue warnings for bannings?

Just because it didn't get shut down doesn't mean it didn't happen. That thread was going on for almost as long as the film was in production. I'm sure there were posters there who were bad apples as well, but weren't banned or warned because the thing was many pages deep and moving way too fast. It's just that the positive thread was fresh when the film got released, and the heightened emotions drove fans to go in that place to bash, so it got understandably shut down for a while. I'm not gonna act like I'm the good guy, because I myself was getting into it with jmc about the film in some other thread, and in hindsight regretted acting so childish.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I didn't deny it a chance. Nobody did. We all went and watched it, and made our judgements on it. How is that denying it a chance? We come back here, voice our criticisms about the myriad of flaws this awful story had, and we get told by the fans stuff like we didn't get, we're shallow thinkers etc.

I'm not gonna answer for every fan who said "you didn't get it" to you. I brought it up before: someone says something like "what a dumb film - US government thinks Superman shot those people". It's not an informed argument. Of course there are people, who got everything, that was possible to get from the movie. And they didn't like it, it didn't work for them. Doesn't mean everything listed as flaws of the movie are actual flaws. They can be misinterpretations, mistakes, personal preferences, expectations and so on. AS WELL as valid criticisms. Another thing - there's myriad of flaws in other comic book films (much better received ones), but they didn't get trashing like this one.

So I ask you, who's in the wrong here? The ones who watched it and made their own informed opinions, or the ones who dismiss them because it doesn't gel with what they think?

Depends on opinion. I brought an example of a person, who watched the film, but completely got it wrong. If someone is bashing the film - he isn't automatically right. Same applies to someone who is praising it. I read plenty of crap about why this film is a masterpiece.

So what? Fact is they still liked it. According to you that doesn't make it a bad movie because people have different opinions and backgrounds. So if BvS isn't bad, then neither is B&R.

For me, when it comes to art, "bad" or "good" equals to "I disliked it" or "I liked it".

 

[The Joker]

Just because it didn't get shut down doesn't mean it didn't happen. That thread was going on for almost as long as the film was in production. I'm sure there were posters there who were bad apples as well, but weren't banned or warned because the thing was many pages deep and moving way too fast. It's just that the positive thread was fresh when the film got released, and the heightened emotions drove fans to go in that place to bash, so it got understandably shut down for a while. I'm not gonna act like I'm the good guy, because I myself was getting into it with jmc about the film in some other thread, and in hindsight regretted acting so childish.

Lets call a spade a spade here.

If it didn't get shut down because of bad behavior, then it can't have been half as bad as that positive thread. When things get that hostile, the moderators intervene. They certainly don't close threads and make ban warnings on a whim. So what ever you saw in that skepticism thread was a drop in the ocean to the behavior in the positive thread.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Same. I didn't even set foot in the BvS forum during the re-production days, except maybe once or twice when the Bat suit got revealed because nothing I was seeing or hearing about the movie interested me. But I waited til the movie came out, judged it for myself, and then joined in the fan discussions.

And here we are. Having to justify why a Batman fan is here discussing a Batman relate movie.



That's alright for you, but I care because there's a big difference between some fans that are just annoying, and ones that are outright hostile and insulting, that they get a thread shut down, and banning warnings issued.

I'm not talking winners or losers here, but that kind of behavior is far worse than reading posts you find tiresome. At least you're not being verbally attacked there.

I had a mod call me dumb for liking BvS. That was one of many insults hurled my way. Unlike you, I've been here from the beginning. I've lost count of the shut down threads and bannings. I've also lost tracked of who slang mud at whom. I don't care anymore. Everyone is great and everyone is terrible. Just get over it. Trying to prove which side is worse is completely pointless.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Pull the other one. This forum is not a place to have a party. Do you see the words fan forum anywhere here? This is a discussion forum. That means positive and negative opinions. If people can't handle seeing negative opinions then internet forums are not for them.

I got it. That's why the thread was created. Opinions of all colors were in the main thread. Those, who didn't want to discuss problems of the movie or wanted to talk only about what they liked were in the positivity thread. I certainly can handle criticism, it's just a freaking movie, after all. But it's not a pleasure reading negativity. Also, there's a huge different between polite and respectful criticisms and reveling in hate.

This was proven when they used said positive thread to childishly bash the people who were criticizing the movie.

I was one of those, who warned people from bashing other fans behind their backs.

 

[Legendver2]

Lets call a spade a spade here.

If it didn't get shut down because of bad behavior, then it can't have been half as bad as that positive thread. When things get that hostile, the moderators intervene. They certainly don't close threads and make ban warnings on a whim. So what ever you saw in that skepticism thread was a drop in the ocean to the behavior in the positive thread.

You know what, for the sake of being as objective as I can about this, I can dig it. Let's just agree that there are bad apples and sensible posters on both sides of this shall we.

 

[StormC]

People liking the movie is totally fine even if I don't understand why they do. What really gets me is people trying to jump through hoops to prove that MOS/BVS are really good movies that critics and audiences didn't like because of Marvel or Nolan or whatever boogeyman they've concocted. They can't just accept that they didn't gel with the public, they have to tear down other movies and question viewers that "didn't get it." It's pretentious, unfounded and lacking in any self-awareness.

 

[The Joker]

I'm not gonna answer for every fan who said "you didn't get it" to you. I brought it up before: someone says something like "what a dumb film - US government thinks Superman shot those people". It's not an informed argument. Of course there are people, who got everything, that was possible to get from the movie. And they didn't like it, it didn't work for them. Doesn't mean everything listed as flaws of the movie are actual flaws. They can be misinterpretations, mistakes, personal preferences, expectations and so on. AS WELL as valid criticisms. Another thing - there's myriad of flaws in other comic book films (much better received ones), but they didn't get trashing like this one.

You're talking way too broadly here. This is all applicable for any movie, not just this one. I'm talking specifics of how people were told their opinions were stupid and invalid by the fans of this movie. Case in point;

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=33833271&postcount=107

Depends on opinion. I brought an example of a person, who watched the film, but completely got it wrong. If someone is bashing the film - he isn't automatically right. Same applies to someone who is praising it. I read plenty of crap about why this film is a masterpiece.

More broad strokes. Lets get specific; the detractors never got a thread shut down because they were so hostile towards differing opinions.

For me, when it comes to art, "bad" or "good" equals to "I disliked it" or "I liked it".

So for you the likes of B&R, Catwoman, Green Lantern etc are not actually bad movies. Just a case of subjective art?

 

[kguillou]

Is it weird that I'm anticipating the Ultimate Edition as if I'm watching the film for the first time? Seriously, I feel that pre-March hype in me again.

 

[The Joker]

I had a mod call me dumb for liking BvS. That was one of many insults hurled my way. Unlike you, I've been here from the beginning. I've lost count of the shut down threads and bannings. I've also lost tracked of who slang mud at whom. I don't care anymore. Everyone is great and everyone is terrible. Just get over it. Trying to prove which side is worse is completely pointless.

What Mod called you dumb for liking BvS? Name and shame them because I find that really hard to believe.

Thread closures and bannings happen on every forum, the reasons why they happen are different. I don't buy for a second you lost count of threads that were closed for the same reason that positive one was.

No way. Dig up some examples if there was that many.

I got it. That's why the thread was created. Opinions of all colors were in the main thread. Those, who didn't want to discuss problems of the movie or wanted to talk only about what they liked were in the positivity thread. I certainly can handle criticism, it's just a freaking movie, after all. But it's not a pleasure reading negativity. Also, there's a huge different between polite and respectful criticisms and reveling in hate.

What pray tell was stopping these people from IGNORING the negative posts and just addressing the positive ones? Not a darn thing.

I was one of those, who warned people from bashing other fans behind their backs.

Good for you. Didn't listen to you though.

 

[idiot09]

Is it weird that I'm anticipating the Ultimate Edition as if I'm watching the film for the first time? Seriously, I feel that pre-March hype in me again.

You should be.So am I.From what people are saying,and from seeing the extended scenes,lets just say a lot of the flaws of these movies have been remedied.

 

[idiot09]

Hey guys I know Im new here and I shouldnt really say anything,but shouldnt this thread be about discussing the Ultimate Cut?

 

[Sleiek]

Hated, high profile movies are always remembered. Look at the Phantom Menace.

Heck, people still complain about Godfather III all the time and that came out almost 30 years ago.

EDIT: Or even Batman & Robin. More people talk about Batman & Robin these days than they do Batman Begins.

Except not all of us are complaining about the film, bashing it for months on end. There is actually a group of people, found wherever the detractors are, capable of defending the film. I highly doubt The Phantom Menace had that luxury.

There has been no other major CBM to structure itself around the revenge tragedy template. Not only that, but to double up on it with two interwoven narratives was a huge risk.

I have never seen on film, a Superman that struggles with madness. I have never seen a Superman on film that showcases some of the aspects of humanity we typically look to escape when we watch a movie. That's not bad characterization to me. That was perhaps the most human representation of any CBM character I've ever seen. So much of the human experience is defined by suffering. So to see a character not traditionally associated with that, though traditionally considered to be the most relatable by fans, actually dealing with that for an entire film was incredibly new for me.

I have never seen on film, a more introspective look at Batman. Nolan challenged his philosophy in TDK. He presented the controversy of cell phone surveillance, but ultimately allowed Bruce to be right about using it. BvS straight up paints Batman's principles as flawed and outright incorrect. I've never seen a CBM that just went ahead and made their biggest money maker a psychologically broken villain. I've never seen a Batman that you're supposed to root against.

I've never seen a CBM that presents a villain with a tragic past (Lex and his abuse) that you're not supposed to feel any sympathy for. Usually the ones you're to feel no sympathy toward are not given any backstory.

The DCEU is 2 for 2 when it comes to villains. I sympathized with Zod and I found Lex to be thoroughly interesting, even when he is annoying at times. But that shouldn't be held against the character. His Senate plan alone is worth it all. [BLACKOUT]He knew he won't be able to give a bad name to Superman by using the actress among other things, so what does he do? He blows it up. ****, I didn't see that coming. That scene is perfect craftmanship.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[OutOfBoose]

You're talking way too broadly here. This is all applicable for any movie, not just this one. I'm talking specifics of how people were told their opinions were stupid and invalid by the fans of this movie. Case in point;

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=33833271&postcount=107

Regarding this particular link, I saw both sides throwing stones at each other.

More broad strokes. Lets get specific; the detractors never got a thread shut down because they were so hostile towards differing opinions.

Threads getting close have nothing to do with opinions. It's about breaking rules. If positivity thread is used by some people to attack different opinions, it gets closed. I don't see what else is here to discuss. Very few people did that there. Majority obeyed rules.

So for you the likes of B&R, Catwoman, Green Lantern etc are not actually bad movies. Just a case of subjective art?

I prefer not to use these categories. I just see it as people universally disliked them. Do I like them? No, I don't. Especially Catwoman.

 

[The Joker]

Regarding this particular link, I saw both sides throwing stones at each other.

And I saw one side get so bad they got their own thread closed, and were threatened with bannings.

Threads getting close have nothing to do with opinions. It's about breaking rules. If positivity thread is used by some people to attack different opinions, it gets closed. I don't see what else is here to discuss. Very few people did that there. Majority obeyed rules.

It had everything to do with opinions. They were being insulted because of their opinions on the movie, being called stupid, idiotic, dumb etc beause what they thought about this or that was wrong.

I prefer not to use these categories. I just see it as people universally disliked them. Do I like them? No, I don't. Especially Catwoman.

So no such thing as bad movies in your world. Must not be any good ones either then. Just movies that are liked or disliked. Interesting way of looking at things.

Hey guys I know Im new here and I shouldnt really say anything,but shouldnt this thread be about discussing the Ultimate Cut?

Fair point. We have derailed it off topic. C. Lee frowns on that.

Apologies.

 

[Sleiek]

I see the opposite. Detractors fully accept people like this movie, it's the fans of the movie that can't accept the opposite. That's why the demanded their own special positive thread to talk in. Then they used the thread to bash the people who dislike the movie. The thread ended up being shut down because of it. It only got re-opened on the condition they never do that again, and anyone who does gets banned.

That's how bad the fans of this movie behaved. The problem is not with the detractors.

Yeah maybe that's why the MAIN Justice League thread got shut down.

Breh, there was a Skepticism thread too when mostly everyone was pumped up for BvS. Became a safe place for people discuss everything they hated about the BvS production. Point is, there were bad apples on either side of the aisle. All this finger pointing about which side is worse is absolutely childish.

THANK YOU.