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The comic vs the movie...

hellfiremaster

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How much artistic license is to much???

Movie
  1. GR whistles for bike
  2. Blaze comes to grips with transformation on 2nd or 3rd attempt
  3. Roxanne lives
  4. Carter Slade / Blaze interact
  5. Set in west
  6. Baddies sent back to hell while GR is adjusting his chain length
  7. Penance stare is assumed and charcoal eyes remain
  8. Memphisto and blackhearts "monsters"
  9. Campy, corny humor
  10. Blaze eats jelly bellies and is a total wussbag
  11. Fire elemental is cause of Blaze's transformation
Comic
  1. GR's bike (in Blaze) can be formed from hell fire which GR manifests just by pointing his hand, which would have looked much cooler than a lipless whistle.
  2. The transformation tormented Blaze almost entirely through the first run, only the Ketch had some favorable interaction with his inner demon
  3. Roxanne is dead
  4. Blaze wouldn't know Slade if he tripped over him at Comicon
  5. Only the original GR a whopping run of under 12 or so issues was a western
  6. Baddies and other unearthly adversaries always took GR to a limit, some even dismembered him only to find him reassemble and then kick their asses
  7. Penance stare was always shown as a "fire" emanating from within GR and shown entering the eyes of the victim. At the end the eyes usually smoldered and the receiver mumbled about how sorry he was. Foremost he was always in agony.
  8. Well we know how weak the monsters were
  9. I still am asking for someone here who shall remain nameless to show me a line in a GR comic that was a close to corny as some of these lines were
  10. Self explanatory.. sorry done before or not, Blaze's characterization in the comic always left room for the assumption that maybe Blaze, not Zarathos, was the anger behind the evil. Also the corny bad elvis impersonation. OMG the more I watch the scene where he gets interviewed by Roxanne, I think WTF.
  11. Zarathos, a mystical demon is the fire within blaze
Now there were some liberties that were OK IMHO.. the look of the hellcycle, Blaze's GR wearing Ketch GR clothes and not his disco jumpsuit. Slade being a GR entity and not a white fluorescent cowboy, these probably deserved revamping. IMHO the core of GR was violated, and in a way not seen since Ned Beatty squealed like a pig in 72'. The only thing I find satisfying is that GR finally came alive on the big screen. The whole movie to me could be cut to 15 minutes, then I might find it decent. As someone who thought the GR comic was the nuts in the 70's, I just found my heart being ripped out as the movie progressed. After the yeehaw scene, not even a defib would have saved me.

HFM
 
Thanks for pointing the differences out.
I was wondering how faithful or unfaithful the movie was.
 
Well it is really faithful to the comics, but sadly not as much as it looked like it would be.

The one thing I noticed quickly when I saw it opening day was that Ghost Rider HAS NEVER crapped out lines like that in the comics. I've read like the whole 90's series and he was always bada-- to the bone.

I loved the movie, but it could've been SO much better.
 
yes, way too much artistic license taken. Some was inevitable given our times and attention span of audiences. For long time fans who grew up with the original comic, it was a definate disappointment. Nice to see him on screen though.
 
Too much?

It's about as much as Nolan took with begins.

Batman's borderline genius, but in begins he's just a really smart rich guy.
What's with the Rachael chick?
What's with the rocket tankmobile?
Bat glider wings?
Rubber suit again?
Lets a villain die?
Un-even bat-voice?
Young bruce goes to see some bat play? What about zorro?

But I enjoyed the movie anyway.
 
Movie
  1. GR whistles for bike
  2. Blaze comes to grips with transformation on 2nd or 3rd attempt
  3. Roxanne lives
  4. Carter Slade / Blaze interact
  5. Set in west
  6. Baddies sent back to hell while GR is adjusting his chain length
  7. Penance stare is assumed and charcoal eyes remain
  8. Memphisto and blackhearts "monsters"
  9. Campy, corny humor
  10. Blaze eats jelly bellies and is a total wussbag
  11. Fire elemental is cause of Blaze's transformation
Comic
  1. GR's bike (in Blaze) can be formed from hell fire which GR manifests just by pointing his hand, which would have looked much cooler than a lipless whistle.
  2. The transformation tormented Blaze almost entirely through the first run, only the Ketch had some favorable interaction with his inner demon
  3. Roxanne is dead
  4. Blaze wouldn't know Slade if he tripped over him at Comicon
  5. Only the original GR a whopping run of under 12 or so issues was a western
  6. Baddies and other unearthly adversaries always took GR to a limit, some even dismembered him only to find him reassemble and then kick their asses
  7. Penance stare was always shown as a "fire" emanating from within GR and shown entering the eyes of the victim. At the end the eyes usually smoldered and the receiver mumbled about how sorry he was. Foremost he was always in agony.
  8. Well we know how weak the monsters were
  9. I still am asking for someone here who shall remain nameless to show me a line in a GR comic that was a close to corny as some of these lines were
  10. Self explanatory.. sorry done before or not, Blaze's characterization in the comic always left room for the assumption that maybe Blaze, not Zarathos, was the anger behind the evil. Also the corny bad elvis impersonation. OMG the more I watch the scene where he gets interviewed by Roxanne, I think WTF.
  11. Zarathos, a mystical demon is the fire within blaze
Erm, actually:
  1. In GR second run, the bike was sentient and could ride alone, often to come back to his master, sometimes even to transport other people away etc.. once Suicide used the bike to find GR...the whistle is movie-only, but really i think it's somewhat more in tone with the first GR.. i should ask to Biggun, but i think it happened once something like GR whistling to call the bike..
  2. Well, in all the Champions run Zarathos was pretty much in check, only later it came out more and more predominant in GR form.
  3. Well...no. Roxanne seems to die on GRII by hand of Anton Hellgate, but becomes a demoness of Blackheart(Black Rose), in the end published few weeks ago she is resurrected and comes back to Johnny. (after that the story becomes very intricated with Hammer Lane serie, i hope Way is able to retcon this mess...=_=)
  4. No. In GR1 there was an issue (#56) with both(okay, that wasHamilton Slade, the new Phantom Rider, possessed by the spirits of his ancestors, Lincoln Slade and Carter Slade, previous PR)
  5. No, most of issues of GR first run were set in desert, western like backgrounds, later also because JB was isolating himself from people in fear of what Zarathos could do.Even the awesome Avengers #214(http://ghostrider.omegacen.com/AV214.html) was set on desert..
  6. No, take Hag & Troll, D'spair/D'sprite of the second run, or even the Avengers on the first (lol, just kidding), 2ond class demons were never a problem for GR, especially on his second run.
  7. No, really. Only Larroca(pretty good i also think) and some minor artist depicted it as a searing fire from GR eyesocket to the victim's eyes. Saltares & Texeira, the (immense)artists of the first part of GRII and the creators of the visuals of the penance stare always depicted it ony as a hollow look from GR pure blackness, empty eyesockets, sometime later also with reddish flashback images (showing "inside" the mind of the victims), you know the way they painted that look was really scary! Few times i also remember a tiny light far in the eyesockets, some later artist started to draw fire inside the eyesockets, then it came Larroca. The crispburned eyes are Movie only material, but i think they can be seen as a homage to the barbecued victims of Vengeance...
  8. uhmm..i hear Mephisto never actually fights in the movie, and in the comics too..Blackheart.. i think the only time i saw him fighting was in Heart of Darkness...and there he was pwned... it seems most of the people got information about BH while playing Marvel VS series videogames, while he was never much a fighter type... he IS powerful, but he likes more scheming.Same as his father.
  9. I'll try, my memory is not too good but i recall a line in GR second run: he was falling from 4th floor(he was fighting D'spair) and he attempted to grab a lamp post with the chain, to "imitate Spider-Man" as he said, naturally he bent the lamp post... once at christmas he tried to atone for freaking out the people by visiting a terrorized man and his mother (it was a christmas special issue i think) he also made some good gag exchange with Spider-Man at times, mostly involuntary, then with Zodiak or some later issue he did say "surprise" while emerging from water.. the problem is most of the gag were by other characters, with GR acting as the "supporting guy", especially with Spider-Man, sometimes Punisher, often Johnny Blaze.
  10. Interesting interpretation, really, i think Biggun knows more on this, but isn't repressed anger better?
  11. Er, what?Zarathos is an elder demon, almost powerful as Mephisto, in the comics he was always pictured as a flaming being as opposite as most of other demons(i am talking of both his GRII appearance, yes, the purple GR thing with cape and etcetera, and also the giant flaming demon of GR1). Is it stated in the movie thet he is possessed by an elemental? Also, in GR1 Zarathos presence inside JB was uncovered only in Ghost Rider #76...
 
I tend to agree with HM in as much as I would have preferd the movie to have been a more faithful rendition of the vol1 GR. The points HM points out are valid. Creating the bike from fire would have been cooler as well as more faithful to the comic. Though i do think MSJ left it open to be reveled later that GR is in fact zarathos. Before Blaze(movie) refered to it as a elemental, he said he was speaking to the "spirit" within him.
But, you gotta look at it this way, a lot of the general public liked it. The BO numbers shows that the movie has moved past the comic geeks and into mainstream, which is good, depending on how you look at it. For instance, i saw it last night (for the 3rd time) and i made the comment to my wife that i didn't like when that corny music started for a couple seconds and GR waived his finger at the cop. She said she liked that part. In Walmart yesterday I checked the toy isle to check to see how the GR toys are moving (as i always do) and a bunch of kids were playing with the windup and launch GRbike. BTW the toys are selling pretty freakin well. The public for the most part are liking it because they don't know all the lore that we are aware of. Granted, I think it could have had the elements of the comics that Hm mentioned and still accomplished the mainstream goal (IMO) but they did what they did and I (after watching 3 times) think it is a pretty damn good movie, even if its not the exact movie I wanted.
I was happy that they showed GR laughing in delight, I thought it came across very well and of course was true to the original comic. I liked GR's roar and the look and more importantly the sound of the hellcycle was great. The cgi was fantastic and I really loved seeing GR finally come to life. I'll be going back at least 1 more time before it leaves theatres.

BTW, I didn't like the "yeehaw" or the whistling for the bike either and as far as I know, GR never Whistled for his bike in the comics. If he did, it was ketch because Blaze never would of had to since he creates his bike.
 
[/list]Erm, actually:
  1. In GR second run, the bike was sentient and could ride alone, often to come back to his master, sometimes even to transport other people away etc.. once Suicide used the bike to find GR...the whistle is movie-only, but really i think it's somewhat more in tone with the first GR.. i should ask to Biggun, but i think it happened once something like GR whistling to call the bike..
  2. Well, in all the Champions run Zarathos was pretty much in check, only later it came out more and more predominant in GR form.
  3. Well...no. Roxanne seems to die on GRII by hand of Anton Hellgate, but becomes a demoness of Blackheart(Black Rose), in the end published few weeks ago she is resurrected and comes back to Johnny. (after that the story becomes very intricated with Hammer Lane serie, i hope Way is able to retcon this mess...=_=)
  4. No. In GR1 there was an issue (#56) with both(okay, that wasHamilton Slade, the new Phantom Rider, possessed by the spirits of his ancestors, Lincoln Slade and Carter Slade, previous PR)
  5. No, most of issues of GR first run were set in desert, western like backgrounds, later also because JB was isolating himself from people in fear of what Zarathos could do.Even the awesome Avengers #214(http://ghostrider.omegacen.com/AV214.html) was set on desert..
  6. No, take Hag & Troll, D'spair/D'sprite of the second run, or even the Avengers on the first (lol, just kidding), 2ond class demons were never a problem for GR, especially on his second run.
  7. No, really. Only Larroca(pretty good i also think) and some minor artist depicted it as a searing fire from GR eyesocket to the victim's eyes. Saltares & Texeira, the (immense)artists of the first part of GRII and the creators of the visuals of the penance stare always depicted it ony as a hollow look from GR pure blackness, empty eyesockets, sometime later also with reddish flashback images (showing "inside" the mind of the victims), you know the way they painted that look was really scary! Few times i also remember a tiny light far in the eyesockets, some later artist started to draw fire inside the eyesockets, then it came Larroca. The crispburned eyes are Movie only material, but i think they can be seen as a homage to the barbecued victims of Vengeance...
  8. uhmm..i hear Mephisto never actually fights in the movie, and in the comics too..Blackheart.. i think the only time i saw him fighting was in Heart of Darkness...and there he was pwned... it seems most of the people got information about BH while playing Marvel VS series videogames, while he was never much a fighter type... he IS powerful, but he likes more scheming.Same as his father.
  9. I'll try, my memory is not too good but i recall a line in GR second run: he was falling from 4th floor(he was fighting D'spair) and he attempted to grab a lamp post with the chain, to "imitate Spider-Man" as he said, naturally he bent the lamp post... once at christmas he tried to atone for freaking out the people by visiting a terrorized man and his mother (it was a christmas special issue i think) he also made some good gag exchange with Spider-Man at times, mostly involuntary, then with Zodiak or some later issue he did say "surprise" while emerging from water.. the problem is most of the gag were by other characters, with GR acting as the "supporting guy", especially with Spider-Man, sometimes Punisher, often Johnny Blaze.
  10. Interesting interpretation, really, i think Biggun knows more on this, but isn't repressed anger better?
  11. Er, what?Zarathos is an elder demon, almost powerful as Mephisto, in the comics he was always pictured as a flaming being as opposite as most of other demons(i am talking of both his GRII appearance, yes, the purple GR thing with cape and etcetera, and also the giant flaming demon of GR1). Is it stated in the movie thet he is possessed by an elemental? Also, in GR1 Zarathos presence inside JB was uncovered only in Ghost Rider #76...

1) As I stated, I stated for Blaze and in my issues, there is no whistle that I can find.

2) There are some issues that make it appear that Blaze uses the GR power at his will. There are also some issues that make it appear that its really uncomfortable.

3) Roxanne is dead, as of movie press time, if she is alive NOW, it really has no bearing on the film since its already almost 1 1/2 years old, therefore wasn't alive.

4) As I stated, they never met. In issue 56 it was a descendant, and as you stated, PR.

5) I disagree. They were not written as westerns, western scenery doesn't make it a western. Most if not all the Marvel Spotlights origins take place in NYC.

6) There were plenty of fights where he was damaged by "demons" clearly less than his caliber. Not to mention mortal woundings.

7) Now I haven't gone thru my collection but as early as issue 36, and probably earlier he sent fire from his eyes. He continued to do so through the series, regardless of artist. So again, the comic takes precedence.

8) There are clearly COMICS that show Blackheart and Memphisto in DEMONIC forms. They are NOT carried over to the movie. They have been shown here in this forum before the movie came out.

9) Again, NOTHING near as bad as the movie lines were. I am not just talking about GR either. Wolverine called him Bonehead, Spidey is a quick witted wordsmith, so if a Spidey line in the comic comes off as "humor" its because of Spiderman. Now did I miss a scene with Spidey and GR? That might have made the movie.

10) Like you said, interpretation. But one of my favorite crossovers, Team UP 58 with Spiderman, it's clear that Blaze's intent was to hurt the trapster and got an earful from Spidey. It maybe towards the end of the issues, but its clearly a battle between Blaze and Zarathos for GR.

11) Yes, the movie they clearly reference it as a fire elemental. Blaze is trying to control the fire and he commands the fire elemental inside him.. or something like that.

HFM
 
dosent blaze wear what movie ghost rider wears now anyway? ( looking at recent pics of comic ghost rider)
 
I think a major problem with the film is that it's longer than 15 minutes.
 
11) Yes, the movie they clearly reference it as a fire elemental. Blaze is trying to control the fire and he commands the fire elemental inside him.. or something like that.

HFM

he attempts to gain control over the possessing spirit by calling upon the fire element that resides within him. so basically, zarathos brought the fire element into Johnny with him, and Johnny was trying to wrestle control of it away from zarathos
 
Too much?

It's about as much as Nolan took with begins.

Batman's borderline genius, but in begins he's just a really smart rich guy.
What's with the Rachael chick?
What's with the rocket tankmobile?
Bat glider wings?
Rubber suit again?
Lets a villain die?
Un-even bat-voice?
Young bruce goes to see some bat play? What about zorro?

But I enjoyed the movie anyway.

You are forgetting that batman gets made and alot of what you get is subject to the times it was made.
Your first point in itself is accurate. As he gets older he gets smarter.
Who knows.
The batmobile changes in the comic book AND the movies. So I think the movies have been faithful to a degree with that issue.
Batman has always held his cape out, when it became rigid, I don't know.
Can't argue with the suit, except as I said before Batman gets remade and its a reflection of the times. In the 40's you don't see alot of what batman has gained over the years for lack of vision and what was available back then to mimic.
Batvoice? Can you tell from the comic how he sounds?
The zorro play, ok.. I never knew there was a specific play he saw. Now I learned something.

HFM
 
How much artistic license is to much???

Movie
  1. GR whistles for bike
  2. Blaze comes to grips with transformation on 2nd or 3rd attempt
  3. Roxanne lives
  4. Carter Slade / Blaze interact
  5. Set in west
  6. Baddies sent back to hell while GR is adjusting his chain length
  7. Penance stare is assumed and charcoal eyes remain
  8. Memphisto and blackhearts "monsters"
  9. Campy, corny humor
  10. Blaze eats jelly bellies and is a total wussbag
  11. Fire elemental is cause of Blaze's transformation
Comic
  1. GR's bike (in Blaze) can be formed from hell fire which GR manifests just by pointing his hand, which would have looked much cooler than a lipless whistle.
  2. The transformation tormented Blaze almost entirely through the first run, only the Ketch had some favorable interaction with his inner demon
  3. Roxanne is dead
  4. Blaze wouldn't know Slade if he tripped over him at Comicon
  5. Only the original GR a whopping run of under 12 or so issues was a western
  6. Baddies and other unearthly adversaries always took GR to a limit, some even dismembered him only to find him reassemble and then kick their asses
  7. Penance stare was always shown as a "fire" emanating from within GR and shown entering the eyes of the victim. At the end the eyes usually smoldered and the receiver mumbled about how sorry he was. Foremost he was always in agony.
  8. Well we know how weak the monsters were
  9. I still am asking for someone here who shall remain nameless to show me a line in a GR comic that was a close to corny as some of these lines were
  10. Self explanatory.. sorry done before or not, Blaze's characterization in the comic always left room for the assumption that maybe Blaze, not Zarathos, was the anger behind the evil. Also the corny bad elvis impersonation. OMG the more I watch the scene where he gets interviewed by Roxanne, I think WTF.
  11. Zarathos, a mystical demon is the fire within blaze
Now there were some liberties that were OK IMHO.. the look of the hellcycle, Blaze's GR wearing Ketch GR clothes and not his disco jumpsuit. Slade being a GR entity and not a white fluorescent cowboy, these probably deserved revamping. IMHO the core of GR was violated, and in a way not seen since Ned Beatty squealed like a pig in 72'. The only thing I find satisfying is that GR finally came alive on the big screen. The whole movie to me could be cut to 15 minutes, then I might find it decent. As someone who thought the GR comic was the nuts in the 70's, I just found my heart being ripped out as the movie progressed. After the yeehaw scene, not even a defib would have saved me.

HFM
DISCO jumpsuit? WHAT disco jump suit, are you talking about, the leathers Blaze wore? Those were designed a quite a few years before diso came out. Both Clint and Elvis wore SHIRTS and coats that were similarly made.

I liked the blend of all the GRs. it was cool I thought, but, You're right, GR's humor was alittle to much like what Spidey's humor should be, and has yet been like IMO. Much of the humor could have been alittle more gruesome rather than Cheerful.
 

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