The Curious Case of Spider-Man & Hulk Rights (Or Keep Hope Alive That the Rights Will Revert)

[psylockolussus]

Feel like its only a matter of time before Sony Pictures are up for sale.

Sony Pictures Q3 Profit Hits $51M In 50% Decrease From 2018 – Deadline

Its only a matter of time now.

*Evil grin*

 

[psylockolussus]

And all this time I thought they were doing great with that impressive line up of IPs. What were they again?

Other thanSpider-Man they have...

Venom
Morbius
Jumanji
Peter Rabbit
Hotel Transylvania
Ghostbusters
Bad Boys
Escape Room
The Equalizer



I don't really care who buys Sony Pictures. Maybe Paramount or LionsGate would benefit a lot from their library? Who knows.

As long as the film rights go back to Marvel and the Venom Verse is abruptly canceled (similar to FoXverse) then great.

 

[Docker2.0]

That's the thing though, we don't know if Spider man really goes back to Disney. I'm hoping that is the case but it is so shrouded in mystery because none of us have seen the contracts but again, I hope you are right.

 

[ironwez20]

As long as Sony abd avi arad stay far away it’s all good. They don’t deserve it anymore.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Again you don’t know that. We will see. It’s not like they have multiple hits on there roster like fox did. I can only think of jumanji and Spider-Man

That point goes both ways. I may not know for a fact that they won't, but you don't know that they will. But where I think my point has more merit is the fact that fans have been waiting for that to happen. For several years now, been speculating on it happening for a couple years now, and it has yet to happen. Sony has stuck around. Plus, After the Fox deal, I highly doubt that Any such move would be approved by the government. Unless. It was just an outright sale of the Spider-Man IP itself. So again, it's just feels like I Hail Mary the people are desperately hoping for because they don't like what Is happening Spider-Man. In other words, this is wishful thinking.

 

[ironwez20]

That point goes both ways. I may not know for a fact that they won't, but you don't know that they will. But where I think my point has more merit is the fact that fans have been waiting for that to happen. For several years now, been speculating on it happening for a couple years now, and it has yet to happen. Sony has stuck around. Plus, After the Fox deal, I highly doubt that Any such move would be approved by the government. Unless. It was just an outright sale of the Spider-Man IP itself. So again, it's just feels like I Hail Mary the people are desperately hoping for because they don't like what Is happening Spider-Man. In other words, this is wishful thinking.

yes but again it was wishful thinking to have Spider-Man in the mcu . It was wishful thinking to have xmen in the mcu. So anything is possible. And given the amount of evidence people have that Sony is failing I feel it’s more likely for Sony to go under. They may not be bought by Disney but I don’t think they’ll be around for much longer. Your point doesn’t have more merit since fans hoped and prayed for certain events to happen and they did. Mine does since Sony keeps losing money and putting out meh movies to bombs.

no offense but you sound like the guys who said we’d never see these characters in the mcu and it was “ wishful thinking” to believe spidey would ever show up. Here we are. Xmen , ff and Spider-Man (kinda) under the marvel roof

 

[Spider-Fan]

yes but again it was wishful thinking to have Spider-Man in the mcu . It was wishful thinking to have xmen in the mcu. So anything is possible. And given the amount of evidence people have that Sony is failing I feel it’s more likely for Sony to go under. They may not be bought by Disney but I don’t think they’ll be around for much longer. Your point doesn’t have more merit since fans hoped and prayed for certain events to happen and they did. Mine does since Sony keeps losing money and putting out meh movies to bombs.

no offense but you sound like the guys who said we’d never see these characters in the mcu and it was “ wishful thinking” to believe spidey would ever show up. Here we are. Xmen , ff and Spider-Man (kinda) under the marvel roof

This is a completely different situation than Fox. In the case of 20th Century Fox, that was a company looking to sell. Disney having already made such a transaction have ensured that they can't buy another major Studio. Otherwise they're violating monopoly laws. That just simply can't happen again. We can argue that Sony. Is not doing well financially, but that's not true. You can say they have nothing outside of Jumanji and Spider-Man, but they also have many successful movies like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Not everything is all about the major blockbusters. We'll have to see what other things like Ghostbusters Afterlife and stuff do, And I'm not going to argue that Sony is the second or even third biggest Studio out there, but every time the topic comes up it gets shut down. If they sell eventually it won't be to Disney. We also don't know anything about how the Spider-Man rights actually work if such a scenario materializes, so really it's rampant speculation. For all we know if Apple or Amazon or somebody else buys the studio from Sony, then the rights may very well stay with whoever buys it.

I get that fans want these things. I get the some of the stuff that fans have wanted him happened. But that doesn't mean everything fans want to happen will happen. There are real things preventing such a transaction from occurring. The only way I see Spider-Man reverting back to Marvel is if Disney outright buys the IP from Sony. I don't see any other scenario in which that happens, and something tells me Sony is going to put a price tag that Disney won't pay for one character. Especially not when they already own the most profitable part of that IP, that being the merchandising rights.

 

[InCali]

This is a completely different situation than Fox. In the case of 20th Century Fox, that was a company looking to sell. Disney having already made such a transaction have ensured that they can't buy another major Studio. Otherwise they're violating monopoly laws. That just simply can't happen again. We can argue that Sony. Is not doing well financially, but that's not true. You can say they have nothing outside of Jumanji and Spider-Man, but they also have many successful movies like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Not everything is all about the major blockbusters. We'll have to see what other things like Ghostbusters Afterlife and stuff do, And I'm not going to argue that Sony is the second or even third biggest Studio out there, but every time the topic comes up it gets shut down. If they sell eventually it won't be to Disney. We also don't know anything about how the Spider-Man rights actually work if such a scenario materializes, so really it's rampant speculation. For all we know if Apple or Amazon or somebody else buys the studio from Sony, then the rights may very well stay with whoever buys it.

I get that fans want these things. I get the some of the stuff that fans have wanted him happened. But that doesn't mean everything fans want to happen will happen. There are real things preventing such a transaction from occurring. The only way I see Spider-Man reverting back to Marvel is if Disney outright buys the IP from Sony. I don't see any other scenario in which that happens, and something tells me Sony is going to put a price tag that Disney won't pay for one character. Especially not when they already own the most profitable part of that IP, that being the merchandising rights.

That sounds right. If Sony is bought and IF the rights revert, we get MCU Spidey, but that would also drastically reduce what another group would pay for Sony. If Marvel felt like the needed Spidey, they'd shell out the dough, but, realistically, they really don't "need" him and these deals seem to benefit both sides. When Spidey does well, merch sells and Disney makes bank. The only scenario that wouldn't work well for Marvel would be if Sony just started screwing up Spidey. That would probably negatively affect the merch sales and the Disney pocket book.

 

[Spider-Fan]

That sounds right. If Sony is bought and IF the rights revert, we get MCU Spidey, but that would also drastically reduce what another group would pay for Sony. If Marvel felt like the needed Spidey, they'd shell out the dough, but, realistically, they really don't "need" him and these deals seem to benefit both sides. When Spidey does well, merch sells and Disney makes bank. The only scenario that wouldn't work well for Marvel would be if Sony just started screwing up Spidey. That would probably negatively affect the merch sales and the Disney pocket book.

Absolutely, merchandise sales better when the audience is happy with what they're getting them when they're not. But, I don't think Sony is going to give them a cost-effective price to buy those film rights back from them. Especially if the rights are transferable. If the rights are transferable, the Spider-Man is the best asset they have in any sale of the studio to another buyer. So unless Disney pays a higher premium then another suitor would pay, they were just keep them and let the new suitor take it.

If we're looking at non-transferable rights, that alters the ball game a little bit, but as I stated before, I don't think Sony is in as dire strait as many of us seem to think they are. At the very least in the near future. Sony is going to want to see if this gamble on the various Spider-Man spin-off movies is going to work. They're not going to sell the studio just before this potentially profitable venture. If this blows up in their face and a bunch of their spin-off movies flop, then maybe they look to become a seller. But they're not going to do that at this stage of the game. We're probably going to have to wait at least a couple of years to see what the spin-offs other than Venom do. We can at least count on Venom 2 to make them healthy profit.

 

[ironwez20]

This is a completely different situation than Fox. In the case of 20th Century Fox, that was a company looking to sell. Disney having already made such a transaction have ensured that they can't buy another major Studio. Otherwise they're violating monopoly laws. That just simply can't happen again. We can argue that Sony. Is not doing well financially, but that's not true. You can say they have nothing outside of Jumanji and Spider-Man, but they also have many successful movies like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Not everything is all about the major blockbusters. We'll have to see what other things like Ghostbusters Afterlife and stuff do, And I'm not going to argue that Sony is the second or even third biggest Studio out there, but every time the topic comes up it gets shut down. If they sell eventually it won't be to Disney. We also don't know anything about how the Spider-Man rights actually work if such a scenario materializes, so really it's rampant speculation. For all we know if Apple or Amazon or somebody else buys the studio from Sony, then the rights may very well stay with whoever buys it.

I get that fans want these things. I get the some of the stuff that fans have wanted him happened. But that doesn't mean everything fans want to happen will happen. There are real things preventing such a transaction from occurring. The only way I see Spider-Man reverting back to Marvel is if Disney outright buys the IP from Sony. I don't see any other scenario in which that happens, and something tells me Sony is going to put a price tag that Disney won't pay for one character. Especially not when they already own the most profitable part of that IP, that being the merchandising rights.

I don’t think Disney is going to buy Sony but I do think Sony isn’t going to last much longer. I think they won’t be able to sustain themselves much longer

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don’t think Disney is going to buy Sony but I do think Sony isn’t going to last much longer. I think they won’t be able to sustain themselves much longer

That's fine, but I don't agree with that assessment. I think fans WANT Sony to fail more than they actually are. Like I said above, Sony is only just beginning this MCU adjacent experiment. They have easy money definitely coming with the next Spider-Man and Venom films. They will be able to stay afloat for years yet, at minimum. Longer if movies like Ghostbusters Afterlife do well as well as these other spinoffs. But time will tell on those.

Sony may not be Disney, WB, or Comcast to this point. But I don't see a company on the brink of collapse. At least, they ain't spending like it.

 

[ironwez20]

That's fine, but I don't agree with that assessment. I think fans WANT Sony to fail more than they actually are. Like I said above, Sony is only just beginning this MCU adjacent experiment. They have easy money definitely coming with the next Spider-Man and Venom films. They will be able to stay afloat for years yet, at minimum. Longer if movies like Ghostbusters Afterlife do well as well as these other spinoffs. But time will tell on those.

Sony may not be Disney, WB, or Comcast to this point. But I don't see a company on the brink of collapse. At least, they ain't spending like it.

thats fine time. I see a company trying to get a hit off the ground because they are losing money. We will see. I necessarily don’t want so y to fail I just want Spider-Man in good hands and I don’t think Sony should have it anymore. So if that means them going under it’s all good. The property needs to be released from this tug of war

 

[Kuwolski]

thats fine time. I see a company trying to get a hit off the ground because they are losing money. We will see. I necessarily don’t want so y to fail I just want Spider-Man in good hands and I don’t think Sony should have it anymore. So if that means them going under it’s all good. The property needs to be released from this tug of war

They don't have nearly enough legacy IP (Mega Brands) to scale borders globally, nor enough capital to invest (in any meaningful way) for local content from region to region. They can't tap into the bond market a la Netflix with some great story about algorithms and global disruption, etc. What they are is a dwindling legacy media company who makes content (some great content) which for the most part - like most content - has a limited shelf life. Caught between a rock and a hard place. Where does the scale come from? The company is a strong candidate for a merger (likely temporary fix) or acquisition..

 

[NotNickFury]

thats fine time. I see a company trying to get a hit off the ground because they are losing money. We will see. I necessarily don’t want so y to fail I just want Spider-Man in good hands and I don’t think Sony should have it anymore. So if that means them going under it’s all good. The property needs to be released from this tug of war

How is it you can contradict yourself within the span of one post? You say you don't want Sony to fail, but one sentence later, you're fine with Sony going under all for the sake of the live-action rights of a comic book character. I mean, what the sense make? I know us comic book fans have all been fickle and petty at one point or another- yes, all of us- but saying that a company and all the jobs and employees thereof, should go under because of Spider-Man? At least be upfront and say 'Yeah, I'm being petty.'

 

[Kuwolski]

How is it you can contradict yourself within the span of one post? You say you don't want Sony to fail, but one sentence later, you're fine with Sony going under all for the sake of the live-action rights of a comic book character. I mean, what the sense make? I know us comic book fans have all been fickle and petty at one point or another- yes, all of us- but saying that a company and all the jobs and employees thereof, should go under because of Spider-Man? At least be upfront and say 'Yeah, I'm being petty.'

Sony won't go under, the company will still be around in one form or another. Now what happens to the Spidey rights if they get purchased is another story. The question I would ask is just how valuable are those rights to a new company that wouldn't need to milk the character for profits, especially if the most valuable aspect of those rights were sold to a major competitor in the past.

 

[MahvelBaby!]

Nobody can convince me that Morbius isn't going to bomb

 

[Spider-Fan]

People said the same about Venom. Remember, the budget on Morbius is lower than a standard MCU film by all accounts, so it doesn't need to make as much to hit profit.

 

[Iceman]

The games division of Sony is doing very well. Sony Pictures has a lot of risk with few reliable long term franchises and all it takes is a few TASM2s here and there to affect future prospects. Fox were in a better position when they decided to sell seeing the scale advantages that are likely to be key in future with streaming becoming so important.

 

[Dark Raven]

With Morbius, everyone's neck is on the line!

 

[ironwez20]

How is it you can contradict yourself within the span of one post? You say you don't want Sony to fail, but one sentence later, you're fine with Sony going under all for the sake of the live-action rights of a comic book character. I mean, what the sense make? I know us comic book fans have all been fickle and petty at one point or another- yes, all of us- but saying that a company and all the jobs and employees thereof, should go under because of Spider-Man? At least be upfront and say 'Yeah, I'm being petty.'

These people who work for a major studio will be fine they work for Sony . They’ll be good. If apple buys Sony they’ll be even better. Beats working for a dying studio.
Ain’t nobody contradicting but I wasn’t clear.

while it would suck for Sony to go under cause of the employees I wouldn’t care cause they as a studio are incompetent. Ya feel me? Also I said I “ necessarily “ don’t want them to fail. Don’t come at me with that bs lol

 

[ironwez20]

People said the same about Venom. Remember, the budget on Morbius is lower than a standard MCU film by all accounts, so it doesn't need to make as much to hit profit.

whole different scenario. Venom is the most popular Spider-Man villain of all time. The other is just a vampire who happens to be a Spider-Man villain. People may see it but venom has way more Star power.

 

[Spider-Fan]

whole different scenario. Venom is the most popular Spider-Man villain of all time. The other is just a vampire who happens to be a Spider-Man villain. People may see it but venom has way more Star power.

I won't disagree on popularity level, but again, the movie has a lower gross level to reach in order to hit profit. Also, now with the blatant MCU connections they're teasing in the trailers, I think Morbius is going to do fine. Likely not Venom good, but it doesn't have to.

 

[ironwez20]

I won't disagree on popularity level, but again, the movie has a lower gross level to reach in order to hit profit. Also, now with the blatant MCU connections they're teasing in the trailers, I think Morbius is going to do fine. Likely not Venom good, but it doesn't have to.

it may since vampires are making somewhat of a comeback

 

[MahvelBaby!]

So like shazam type numbers?

 

[CaptainWagner]

PLEASE tell me we're not going to start actively cheering for Disney to expand their monopoly again? Cause the "Screw competition, I want muh superheroes!" schtick is already stretched pretty thing.