The Dark Knight Rises vs Logan

[DACrowe]

I think part of it is how you look at it as a film. If you view it as an overall story, Batman's goal isn't just beating Bane (and he already got that personal satisfaction moments earlier): it is saving Gotham both metaphorically and quite literally as the city is moments away from incineration. In terms of the story, Nolan wants to keep the tension up and the drama moving quickly so you feel as bewildered as Bruce that Bane is dead, and there isn't even a moment to register it since the city could blow in a few minutes.

This is also implicit in Catwoman looking at Batman's stab wound as he is already busy formulating their strategy for catching Talia. He doesn't have time to even consider he is bleeding out, much less that Bane is dead.

But if you view it as a simple "hero vs. villain" and you want the villain to be the ultimate badass, yeah I can see it being disappointing. It depends what you are looking for from the film.

 

[Drseuss]

Dark knight is better match for logan.

Love Dark Knight rises but it isnt the best.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think part of it is how you look at it as a film. If you view it as an overall story, Batman's goal isn't just beating Bane (and he already got that personal satisfaction moments earlier): it is saving Gotham both metaphorically and quite literally as the city is moments away from incineration. In terms of the story, Nolan wants to keep the tension up and the drama moving quickly so you feel as bewildered as Bruce that Bane is dead, and there isn't even a moment to register it since the city could blow in a few minutes.

This is also implicit in Catwoman looking at Batman's stab wound as he is already busy formulating their strategy for catching Talia. He doesn't have time to even consider he is bleeding out, much less that Bane is dead.

But if you view it as a simple "hero vs. villain" and you want the villain to be the ultimate badass, yeah I can see it being disappointing. It depends what you are looking for from the film.

Changing main villains at the last moment does not keep up to tension. The movie would have been better had Bane remained the main threat. All changing villains did was make Talia have to earn the audience's respect as a threat in a very short time frame using a cheap MacGuffin, while Bane already was respected. Bane easily could have realized Batman was a much harder fight this go around and switched gears to win and destroy Gotham as planned, thus maintaining momentum. Instead, we have to explain a twist, take Bane out of the equation, and build up Talia. It leads to a rushed ending that banks on the exact same climax of Batman Begins working twice.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Most certainly does not ruin Bane.

To quote Ras Al Ghul "Death does not wait for you to be ready, Death is neither considerate nor fair"

Quoting another movie doesn't change the fact that Bane, the villain of 3/4s of the film, dies at the very edge corner of the frame where if you blink you will miss it. You want to see it as brilliant, and I respect that. I see it as lazy writing and I know Nolan is capable of much better. His filmography speaks for itself. Sadly, the clixmax of TDKR is just lazy recycling

 

[BlackFox]

I like Rises a heck of a lot more than most it seems, its a pretty divisive film on the internet by the looks of things, haha, to say the least and it did a fantastic job of rounding out the trilogy in spite of being in TDK's colossal shadow for me but I do think Logan is just a little more special than it. After TDK they are two of the best CBM's made so its kind of like splitting hairs at this point but Logan had three amazing performances and pulled on heart strings that no other CBM including TDK could even touch so for that I give it the nod.

 

[Awest66]

Quoting another movie doesn't change the fact that Bane, the villain of 3/4s of the film, dies at the very edge corner of the frame where if you blink you will miss it. You want to see it as brilliant, and I respect that. I see it as lazy writing and I know Nolan is capable of much better. His filmography speaks for itself. Sadly, the clixmax of TDKR is just lazy recycling

It's no more "lazy recycling" than Return of the Jedi ending with the Rebel Alliance destroying the Death Star.

 

[Hammer!]

It's no more "lazy recycling" than Return of the Jedi ending with the Rebel Alliance destroying the Death Star.

Who cares. Both films were massive disappointments, Irrelevant.

 

[Ivan Drago]

It's no more "lazy recycling" than Return of the Jedi ending with the Rebel Alliance destroying the Death Star.

Return of the Jedi is also criticized for that.

 

[Hammer!]

Return of the Jedi is also criticized for that.

Plus they were in Tatoonie or whatever for the first third of the film again. Doesn't matter cuz Star Wars is, like, a poetry man...it rhymes, so it's totally off limits to criticize the exact same tropes in those films!

 

[Oscorp]

I don't think it would be completely fair of me to compare those two since I've seen TDKR a couple of times, compared to having watched Logan just once hence I can't tell if Logan will hold up multiple times as much as TDKR. Also, Logan is more fresh and exciting having just released and all. Anyways, how I feel right now is:

Both TDKR and Logan share some pacing issues. There are parts that drag. I have to say though that TDKR is the worse offender of this. I also think that TDKR has worse editing. What I also prefer in Logan compared to TDKR is that I feel that the story of Logan is simple in a good way, yet it manages to go in depth of the main character and make you care. TDKR, while a good movie, feels to me like it tries to bite for more than it can chew. It feels overly ambitious and like it tries too hard to be smart while it forgets to be as enjoyable as it should have been. There are several great moments in TDKR, but I still find myself pretty bored a lot of the time. There are moments in Logan that I'm not sure will hold up as well on multiple viewings, but generally I feel it has more heart and is more aware of its limits to the point it manages to be the more competent film of the two, despite things like the villains not being up to par with Bane.

EDIT: To further explain my feelings about TDKR...I was disappointed the first time I watched it. I couldn't believe myself, so I watched it again at the cinemas and liked it better knowing I shouldn't compare it to TDK. Then, as I've watched it more times, I've more and more felt bored watching it, gotten more annoyed at some of the editing and pacing, cringed a little at some overly exposing dialogue, sighed at the final act and so on. TDK however, tops every CBM in my opinion, and I still love it as much after the 100th time as I did the first time.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It's no more "lazy recycling" than Return of the Jedi ending with the Rebel Alliance destroying the Death Star.

RotJ also has 3 sperate plot lines independent of one another playing out at sane time as the Death Star battle. Thus adding new dynamics to the climax. In TDKR, it devolves into everyone chasing the Wayne Enterprises stolen Macguffin that was stolen by the LoS around the streets of Gotham before it can detonate and destroy the city. Aka, same movie

 

[DACrowe]

Changing main villains at the last moment does not keep up to tension. The movie would have been better had Bane remained the main threat. All changing villains did was make Talia have to earn the audience's respect as a threat in a very short time frame using a cheap MacGuffin, while Bane already was respected. Bane easily could have realized Batman was a much harder fight this go around and switched gears to win and destroy Gotham as planned, thus maintaining momentum. Instead, we have to explain a twist, take Bane out of the equation, and build up Talia. It leads to a rushed ending that banks on the exact same climax of Batman Begins working twice.

I mean, agree to disagree. Strongly. Because it isn't about Batman vs. Bane. That's the point. For Nolan at least, he always wanted it to be about Bruce, his demons, and his city. Bane is an obstacle. A giant one, but an obstacle. And even with Bane out of the picture, for Batman to give up his demons as well as save the city... he has to do more. And I maintain the first several times I saw it, I was on the edge of my seat, because Bane is down, but the city and Bruce's journey are unresolved. Is he going to die?! He sure doesn't care he got stabbed. (well that was the first screening, anyway).

And I absolutely love the chase scene at the end. Unlike most superhero movies (and this isn't just a dig at the MCU, it can also apply to all the DCEU or recently XMA), it isn't about CGI destruction porn. I think it is actually an exhilarating sequence, aided tremendously by the fact that Catwoman switched sides... and Hans Zimmer's music, admittedly.

It's no more "lazy recycling" than Return of the Jedi ending with the Rebel Alliance destroying the Death Star.

Indeed. Or, now to actually make a more pointed critique at the MCU, it is still more satisfying than how they constantly have recycled the "get the MacGuffin away from the villain" or "insert the MacGuffin into the 'exhaust port' weakness that will foil the villains' plot." This is more or less the third act to The Avengers (where it worked great), Guardians of the Galaxy (worked well enough), Captain America: The Winter Soldier (eh), Thor: The Dark World, Captain America: The First Avenger... and maybe Iron Man 2, Ant-Man, and the first Thor? Honestly, my memory is so fuzzy on those three, I can't recall.


If you like that fine, but if you are going to complain about formulaic third acts, well... But I will give Feige this. He appears to have figured out that is getting pretty goddamn redundant, as seen in his endings for Civil War and Doctor Strange, which broke from tradition.

 

[Zen Machine]

The Dark Knight Rises. Just find the plot more interesting and was overall more emotionally invested in the characters.

 

[JackWhite]

Logan. Easily.

 

[Awest66]

Just came back from watching Logan again. Yay Me

My opinion hasn't changed but I will agree with BatLobsterRises in that I personally preferred TDKR's ending.

 

[Steamteck]

Not a huge fan of either but definitely Logan. I'd put it above TDK for me also.

 

[Neil McCauley]

TDKR by far, Logan is very overrated.

It has more depth, a way better villain, stronger soundtrack, better cinematography, better ending, a better cast and far better directing.

The only thing where Logan wins is the story and it's not enough to carry here.

 

[KaijuDude1992]

I'd also vote for TDKR here and I really did enjoy Logan, but I find it hard to re-watch honestly. I don't have that problem with TDKR though despite its flaws. I also vastly prefer TDKR's ending over the ending of Logan and Bane alone is a better villain than any of the villains from Logan.

 

[Schlosser85]

I'm not sure which is a "better" movie, but I will say I'd much rather watch TDKR.