The Debates Thread

[Boom]

So I guess we're just gonna talk about taxes and emails all night.

 

[Matt]

The Clinton campaign should be both applauded and criticized. They came up with a brilliant strategy for handling Pence. But their strategy for handling their own candidate is awful.

To the first point, I gotta hand it to the Clinton campaign. They have studied their opponents and really figured out what makes them tick and how to get under their skin and rattle them.

First there was Clinton's expert troll job on Trump during the first debate. Everything from baiting him into insults, calling him Donald (which was visibly irking him) to calling the amount of money he has into question was designed to get under his skin and throw him off. Norice how Kaine has repeatedly challenged Pence to defend some of Trump's more outrageous, vitriolic, or down right stupid positions, saying things like "I can't believe Governor Pence would defend X." It instantly rattles Pence and causes him to stumble and dodge. It is the perfect strategy as Pence has already shown, virtually from day one on the campaign trail, that he is unwilling to either endorse or defend Donald's crazier antics. Kaine is putting him in a position where Pence either has to either defend it (at the expense of his credibility), break ranks and criticize Trump, or jump through hoops to dodge the question. It is clearly working and making Pence uncomfortable and forcing him to shift in ways he did not anticipate. He is quite unnerved.

However, Kaine is going too hard in the attack dog role. If the Clinton campaign wanted an attack dog, they ought to have picked Bernie Sanders, not Tim Kaine. This is not a role that fits him and he is clearly uncomfortable with it. They way he is constantly talking over Pence and the moderator is making him seem like a toned down version of Trump from last week. I don't understand why the campaign is utilizing him like this. Kaine's natural demeanor is one of cheerful optimism and a kind of "aw shucks" persona. It's served him well thus far and is, in fact, his biggest strength. Why backdown from it? Especially when debating Mike Pence who has a stuffy persona and seems to have a chronic case of stick up his ass.

Yeah, perfect strategy for handling Pence. Terrible strategy for handling Kaine. I think Kaine takes a bigger hit from it. Pence is rattled and unnerved but isn't having a breakdown (nor would he, this isn't a novice like Donald Trump). Meanwhile Kaine is coming off as an unlikeable big mouth and him constantly talking over the female moderator certainly doesn't gel with the campaign's attacks on Trump for mistreating and disrespecting women. Big takeaway: The Clinton campaign nailed the opposition research but dropped the ball on their own guy and that cost them the debate. Pence wins, IMO.

 

[samsnee]

Pence looked better on style. His background as a radio host helped as he came off as a better communicator even if the message was complete bs. Kaine had more substance but he came off too eager to get his early points.

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah, Kaine's interruptions wasn't the best strategy. Though he did have some good spots. That "Why don't you trust women?" line is just perfect.

The moderator did a fine job, though. With what little power she had.

 

[Havok83]

Yeah, Kaine's interruptions wasn't the best strategy. Though he did have some good spots. That "Why don't you trust women?" line is just perfect.

The moderator did a fine job, though. With what little power she had.

I thought she was horrible. No one respected her and they kept ignoring and speaking over her. She had absolutely no control

 

[E.NormusJohnson]

Kaine got smoked hands down... and it was his own fault. This is going to come down to what it always was going to... Trump and his penchant for self-destruction. Hilary coasts to a marginal victory if Trump keeps being Trump. Trump wins by a grain of salt if he lets his surrogates handle most of the PR stuff and stays out of his own way (yea right).

 

[Sithborg]

I thought she was horrible. No one respected her and they kept ignoring and speaking over her. She had absolutely no control

That's all a moderator has, though. She tried to keep them on topic and on time. But without being able to cut their mikes, there is not a lot a moderator can do.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

I could only watch a few parts of the VP debate while flipping through the channels it was full of cringe.

 

[Marvolo]

That's all a moderator has, though. She tried to keep them on topic and on time. But without being able to cut their mikes, there is not a lot a moderator can do.

A competent strict moderator is supposed to be able to shut down a rowdy or rambling participant without cutting the mic. But these debates are handled with kiddie gloves. "The "moderators" are either pansies or the network they work for have them hamstrung so they dont upset any of the delicate participants.

 

[Raiden]

Kaine should have copied what Hillary did instead of copying Trump's constant interruption.

 

[samsnee]

Democrats should start spreading rumors that Pence comes off more Presidential than Trump and he should be the nominee just to see how Trump reacts.

 

[Marvolo]

Kaine should have copied what Hillary did instead of copying Trump's constant interruption.

I doubt it would work as well on Pence.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Kaine drank a few too many cups of coffee before this one. If he hadn't interrupted so much, the stupidity of Pence's non-answers would have been more apparent. All in all, though, it was a vastly superior debate to Trump/Clinton, and the moderator in particular did a stellar job. Both Kaine and Pence are much better candidates than their match-ups.

I am surprised that Pence's past attitudes on gay rights never came up. And I'm once again peeved that for yet another debate, no one mentioned environmental policy as an actual issue outside of Hillary pointing out Trump's science-denial.

Coming out of this, the campaign needs to have Kaine take a chill pill and focus on his strengths, namely being the charming, likeable figure that Hillary can never hope to be.

 

[Thundercrack85]

You had one job, Tim Kaine!

 

[Sithborg]

Democrats should start spreading rumors that Pence comes off more Presidential than Trump and he should be the nominee just to see how Trump reacts.

Rumors have already started...

https://***********/samsteinhp/status/783512170424307714?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[Legendver2]

Rumors have already started...

https://***********/samsteinhp/status/783512170424307714?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Ah yes, another week of madness. Bring it on!

 

[Iceman]

Democrats should start spreading rumors that Pence comes off more Presidential than Trump and he should be the nominee just to see how Trump reacts.

Ha, Hillary needs to mention this next debate if they talk about temperament or winning temperaments. Can Trump handle being 2nd best, especially to someone he's not allowed to criticise/insult?!

Rumors have already started...

https://***********/samsteinhp/status/783512170424307714?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Lol.

 

[Smashlilman]

We all know whats going to happen. Trump will be impeach as soon as he does something unconstitutional Pence will become President. That's why the republican establishment forced that VP pick on him.

 

[Marvolo]

We all know whats going to happen. Trump will be impeach as soon as he does something unconstitutional Pence will become President. That's why the republican establishment forced that VP pick on him.

They don't need to go through the trouble. Pence will likely be running the show. We already know that Trump's son told Kasich that if he would be Trump's VP Donald would put Kasich in charge of foreign and domestic policy and Trump's only job would be "Making America great again." It's safe to assume Pence was given the same offer.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-mike-pence_us_578fa289e4b0f180da63defd

 

[Iceman]

Will Trump have to go to long, boring meetings as president? Or can he send Pence instead? If the president really is expected to do tiresome things like that his team better be working on a Trump suit for Pence to wear.

 

[Raiden]

Will Trump have to go to long, boring meetings as president? Or can he send Pence instead? If the president really is expected to do tiresome things like that his team better be working on a Trump suit for Pence to wear.

Trump has the attention span of an ADHD; there's no way he could sit through long, bored meetings. But let's NOT give him that chance anyway.

 

[Sithborg]

Pence may have won the debate, but he opened a great new avenue of attack for Clinton.

https://***********/HillaryClinton/status/783645247247114240?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Which may have been the plan all along.

 

[Havok83]

I dont see how anyone that watched that can say that Pence won the debate. He did worse than Trump and Im sure he chewed him out last night after it was done.

 

[Sithborg]

I guess there are two ways to view it. Pence came off better than Kaine. Kaine being the aggressor isn't his strong suit, even though he did get better later on. But when it came down to how they promoted and defended their running mate, which is really what the VP debate is about, Pence absolutely failed.

 

[Havok83]

I guess there are two ways to view it. Pence came off better than Kaine. Kaine being the aggressor isn't his strong suit, even though he did get better later on. But when it came down to how they promoted and defended their running mate, which is really what the VP debate is about, Pence absolutely failed.

See I dont have a problem with that. He was aggressive but I dont think he was insulting, overbearing or mean. If he was just shouting things out his arse, Id feel a different way but almost everything that came out his mouth made sense. Its a debate and they should have been debating with each other. Pence couldnt answer questions, defend his running mate or adequately articulate his policies. He came across very unprepared like he just learned that he was going to do this debate a Monday night. There was alot of BS that came out his mouth from the lies, inaccuracies and just general lack of knowledge. Kaine did his homework and it showed. He may have been a bit too passionate but if I saw that had to decide who I could possibly see as the President of my country, it most definitely wouldnt be Pence. He came across very reminiscent of George Bush