The Departed vs. No Country For Old Men

[Carmine Falcone]

No Country for Old Men. No contest for me. I Should watch The Departed again, but I didn't really like it outside of some particular scenes and performances. For me, the shot of Martin Sheen falling is one of the biggest botches of Scorsese's career. With the cut, there's little sense of surprise for the audience, barely any shock. Infernal Affairs hit that key when the lead detective lands on top of the car to everyone's surprise, Departed just about missed it entirely. I don't know why that specific shot and lead up has irritated me so.

I think the shot of Sheen falling is both extremely beautiful (bordering on poetic dammit! ) and very well placed within the scene. And I would not call the lack of surprise a mistake, Scorsese is conscious enough of the art of cinema to know he is not surprising anyone but Billy with the shot of Sheenan landing on the pavement and that is exactly the point. I would say the shot of Sheenan falling is there to provide that crucial moment of (for lack of a better term) suspense for the audience. I certainly remember (and even relived it on subsequent viewings) that moment of extreme tension, dread and horror I felt in the moment just before Sheen hit the street at DiCaprio's feet. Scorsese obviously felt no need to recreate the moment of surprise from the original film.

On topic though: I prefer No Country For Old Men. Firstly because I could print and frame every single shot of that movie and put it up on my wall. One of Deakins' most gorgeously shot movies. Secondly, every single performance is spot-on. The Departed to me, is one of Scorsese's weirdest movies. I think it's even weirder than After Hours. Much of the dialouge is borderline incomprehensible, it seems disjointed and random, especially in any scene with Nicholson. The editing knows has so many absurd little touches such as The speeding up, the overlaid musical tracks, the extremely ****ed-up continuity (even more glaring than usual for Scorsese), Gimme Shelter starting up twice in one scene, the abrupt cutting off of the music in many moments. It's a whackjob of a movie (and I do love it to death).

 

[Doctor Jones]

Schoonmaker is probably one of my favorite editors. When watching Scorsese, you can appreciate the editing just as much.

 

[Dark Victory]

I think the shot of Sheen falling is both extremely beautiful (bordering on poetic dammit! ) and very well placed within the scene. And I would not call the lack of surprise a mistake

No doubt that it was intentional, not just something that was sitting there in the editing room and everyone went, "**** it"

Scorsese is conscious enough of the art of cinema to know he is not surprising anyone but Billy with the shot of Sheenan landing on the pavement and that is exactly the point.

I've never liked this argument. We all go into a Spider-Man movie and know that he's going to win in the end, but it doesn't take away the fact that the action sequences are still exciting. The audience may have some pre-existing knowledge or good intuition of what's going to happen in particular scenes, but a great director can work past that.

And I think the tension of both scenes is created from the fact that we don't know what's happening, above or below, until the character on the ground does, and Scorsese telegraphs that information with the cut, which I honestly find to be dumbed-up expression than the Infernal Affairs scene, which packs a much bigger punch in information.

I would say the shot of Sheenan falling is there to provide that crucial moment of (for lack of a better term) suspense for the audience. I certainly remember (and even relived it on subsequent viewings) that moment of extreme tension, dread and horror I felt in the moment just before Sheen hit the street at DiCaprio's feet.

Again, I disagree. If Sheen's death -- especially the pecularities of it -- was obvious from the beginning, I think a greater sense of dread and tension would be created by not cutting to it. Letting it play out in the audience's head, which I think is much more stimulating, and then letting his death come into play in an otherwise regular frame. Now that's shocking. By cutting to Sheen flailing in the air, then Scorsese's just affirming everything and there's no stimulation in that, at least for me. For example, would DiCaprio's death been more effective if Scorsese cutting to the crooked cop as the elevator opens? Hell no. I love when quieter moments can leave a much bigger impression than more climactic ones, but there's nothing effective of the shot in that sense, imo. By swapping in a new sound track and tilting the camera down as he falls, that shot is a hell of a lot "louder" and heavy handed than a dummy falling into the shot.

Also, if Scorsese left that shot out, Sheen's death would've been in connection with DiCaprio's, something of a foreshadow (the sense of surprise, quick death, the medium compositioning of the characters, etc.). This inconsistency -- if one would even call it that -- in style doesn't bother me, but if Scorsese had made the connection, I think it would've been a nice detail, more for that knowledge of the art of cinema

Scorsese obviously felt no need to recreate the moment of surprise from the original film.

Definitely. Personally, though, I don't think it really matters.

 

[Dark Victory]

Schoonmaker is probably one of my favorite editors. When watching Scorsese, you can appreciate the editing just as much.

I remember hating the editing of Shutter Island when I first saw it. Now, it's my favorite aspect of the movie; its own fractured consciousness. I should rewatch a lot of Scorsese's movies, haven't seen any recently outside of one or two.

 

[Boom]

No Country for Old Men, easily.

I love the neo-noir and western genres. The fact that this film combines the two together makes me go "." I'm also a massive Coenite.

The icing on top was Javier Bardem's brilliant and terrifying portrayal of Anton Chigurh. One of my favorite cinematic villains of all time.

 

[DACrowe]

No doubt that it was intentional, not just something that was sitting there in the editing room and everyone went, "**** it"



I've never liked this argument. We all go into a Spider-Man movie and know that he's going to win in the end, but it doesn't take away the fact that the action sequences are still exciting. The audience may have some pre-existing knowledge or good intuition of what's going to happen in particular scenes, but a great director can work past that.

And I think the tension of both scenes is created from the fact that we don't know what's happening, above or below, until the character on the ground does, and Scorsese telegraphs that information with the cut, which I honestly find to be dumbed-up expression than the Infernal Affairs scene, which packs a much bigger punch in information.




Again, I disagree. If Sheen's death -- especially the pecularities of it -- was obvious from the beginning, I think a greater sense of dread and tension would be created by not cutting to it. Letting it play out in the audience's head, which I think is much more stimulating, and then letting his death come into play in an otherwise regular frame. Now that's shocking. By cutting to Sheen flailing in the air, then Scorsese's just affirming everything and there's no stimulation in that, at least for me. For example, would DiCaprio's death been more effective if Scorsese cutting to the crooked cop as the elevator opens? Hell no. I love when quieter moments can leave a much bigger impression than more climactic ones, but there's nothing effective of the shot in that sense, imo. By swapping in a new sound track and tilting the camera down as he falls, that shot is a hell of a lot "louder" and heavy handed than a dummy falling into the shot.

I disagree. I still clearly remember the entire sold out audience gasping when we saw Sheehan falling) in slow motion (next to all the X's which upon rewatch is kind of hilarious. The girl next to me mouthed "Oh my God" and I felt my stomach turn as he splattered on the pavement in front of Billy.

I still get that similar feeling upon every rewatch of the movie. It is just tragic and you feel just not the only purely likable guy in the movie dying, but you feel the chance for Billy to survive die with him. They both die in that moment and it is heartbreaking. The slow motion falling let's it all sink in.

That sequence was not about suspense and comparing it to a Spider-Man movie is false. That sequence is about inevitable doom and pre-destined tragedy. The title of the film is "The Departed," which almost telegraphs what is going to happen. Once Billy signs onto this undercover game (and even earlier for Colin when he is bout off for a couple of comic books and ice cream) he is a dead man walking.

And yet I, along with the entire audience, had that proverbial shock you're referring to when the elevator doors open and Billy's head explodes. That is truly shocking and still painful to watch.

For those who say the Coens didn't need to show Josh Brolin die because it defeats the purpose of the story (life is chaotic and death inescapable and anti-climactic/not what you expect), I suggest watching the ending of The Departed. Billy's death was a total shock that had the same intended reaction of "Holy ****. Why'd he have to die like that at the hands of some worthless POS?" but it did it in the way where the audience didn't felt cheated and talked down to which is what the ending of NCFOM does, in my opinion.

 

[Donnie Darko]

This...

NCFOM skipping the shooting at the hotel. Yeah, bla bla, I know the argument that it's not in the book, but this is an adaptation. It's frustrating seeing some of the greatest, most suspenseful confrontations on film earliar in the film only to be robbed of arguably the most important one in the story. -nothing- would be changed story wise by giving us a final, explosive showdown where Josh Brolin faces off against some Mexicans.

and this...

To be honest, outside Bardem brillaint performance, I don't see anything special in NCFOM.

I saw through No Country For Old Men about a year or so after it won the Oscar. I had heard nothing but great things, and when I finally sat through it, I felt like the movie built up to... nothing. It was like I sat through a great opening and then someone forgot to write or shoot the rest of the movie. If you're going to give me a disappointing ending, at least give me one that is (what I call) ACTIVELY BAD. By that I mean it goes above and beyond to be bad, which makes it isn't dull, at least. An example of an actively bad ending is in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Man, that was a terrible ending, but at least it tried to be something big. Like, it could at least be laughably bad. Whereas in No Country For Old Men, I watched the end, and I was like "really? That's it? I get robbed of the death scene of what I though was the main character for most of the film, only to be given a long, drawn out monologue by Tommy Lee Jones, who was a supporting character AT BEST?"

Anyway, what I mean to say is... The Departed. Easily. Any flaws in the film aside, the performances alone made this movie fantastic.

 

[Duke]

I liked The Departed more. No Country for Old Men was a very good movie, I just didn't like the ending to it.

 

[Grayson]

The Departed, easily.

 

[The Morningstar]

I liked The Departed more. No Country for Old Men was a very good movie, I just didn't like the ending to it.

The ending made the movie even better I thought. It highlighted the whole theme of the movie "No country for old men". Tommy Lee Jones and co are out of their element. The bad guys win sometimes, and there is nothing these good old boys can do about it.

I like them both, but i prefer No Country.

The Departed was good, but Infernal Affairs is far, far superior. Highlights of The Departed are Baldwin and Wahlberg.

 

[Rez]

The ending made the movie even better I thought. It highlighted the whole theme of the movie "No country for old men". Tommy Lee Jones and co are out of their element. The bad guys win sometimes, and there is nothing these good old boys can do about it.

I agree, I love the ending... I love everything in the movie. My only complaint is what's not in the movie.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I disagree. I still clearly remember the entire sold out audience gasping when we saw Sheehan falling) in slow motion (next to all the X's which upon rewatch is kind of hilarious. The girl next to me mouthed "Oh my God" and I felt my stomach turn as he splattered on the pavement in front of Billy.

I still get that similar feeling upon every rewatch of the movie. It is just tragic and you feel just not the only purely likable guy in the movie dying, but you feel the chance for Billy to survive die with him. They both die in that moment and it is heartbreaking. The slow motion falling let's it all sink in.

That sequence was not about suspense and comparing it to a Spider-Man movie is false. That sequence is about inevitable doom and pre-destined tragedy. The title of the film is "The Departed," which almost telegraphs what is going to happen. Once Billy signs onto this undercover game (and even earlier for Colin when he is bout off for a couple of comic books and ice cream) he is a dead man walking.

And yet I, along with the entire audience, had that proverbial shock you're referring to when the elevator doors open and Billy's head explodes. That is truly shocking and still painful to watch.

For those who say the Coens didn't need to show Josh Brolin die because it defeats the purpose of the story (life is chaotic and death inescapable and anti-climactic/not what you expect), I suggest watching the ending of The Departed. Billy's death was a total shock that had the same intended reaction of "Holy ****. Why'd he have to die like that at the hands of some worthless POS?" but it did it in the way where the audience didn't felt cheated and talked down to which is what the ending of NCFOM does, in my opinion.

Man, you describing this makes me regret I never saw this in theaters.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I enjoyed Departed more as well. I liked No Country, but the film doesn't have a climax. I found that annoying.

 

[Dark Victory]

I disagree. I still clearly remember the entire sold out audience gasping when we saw Sheehan falling) in slow motion (next to all the X's which upon rewatch is kind of hilarious. The girl next to me mouthed "Oh my God" and I felt my stomach turn as he splattered on the pavement in front of Billy.

At Lollapaoolza awhile back, my friends and I saw Kings of Leon to make sure we had a good spot for Tool after, and everyone was like "This is great music!" When I saw Transformers 2 in theaters, it had the same enthusiastic reaction from the crowd. So there.

I still get that similar feeling upon every rewatch of the movie. It is just tragic and you feel just not the only purely likable guy in the movie dying, but you feel the chance for Billy to survive die with him. They both die in that moment and it is heartbreaking. The slow motion falling let's it all sink in.

I think the story behind the scene is good, but I'm not a fan of the execution. Any supposed "tragedy" in the scene, to me, feels lame and heavy handed. The

That sequence was not about suspense and comparing it to a Spider-Man movie is false. That sequence is about inevitable doom and pre-destined tragedy. The title of the film is "The Departed," which almost telegraphs what is going to happen. Once Billy signs onto this undercover game (and even earlier for Colin when he is bout off for a couple of comic books and ice cream) he is a dead man walking.

Eh, wouldn't say that. You make a good argument and maybe I should rewatch the damn thing, but.....eh, to each his own.

And yet I, along with the entire audience, had that proverbial shock you're referring to when the elevator doors open and Billy's head explodes. That is truly shocking and still painful to watch.

Awesome. I have nothing against that scene.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Best death scene EVER.

 

[Dark Victory]

Best death scene EVER.

Kill YOURself.

 

[Eggyman]

No Country for Old Men is my choice. Gorgeous film and a brilliant book. Was never much of a fan of The Departed after watching the brilliant original.

 

[DACrowe]

At Lollapaoolza awhile back, my friends and I saw Kings of Leon to make sure we had a good spot for Tool after, and everyone was like "This is great music!" When I saw Transformers 2 in theaters, it had the same enthusiastic reaction from the crowd. So there.

Did you just compare a Martin Scorsese film that won Best Picture to Transformers 2? ****, to any Michael Bay movie? I'll put it this way few movies are that intense to me and I still remember that viewing experience. All I remember about watching NCFOM the first time was sitting on the edge of my seat and thinking, "That's it? If it weren't the Coens I'd think that was the most pretentious thing I've ever...."

I've watched it twice since and no longer think it is pretentious, but now that I know how it ends, it's as boring as **** and makes me drowsy. That's why I plan never to watch it again....Kind of the same reason I never plan to watch any Transformers movie again....

I think the story behind the scene is good, but I'm not a fan of the execution. Any supposed "tragedy" in the scene, to me, feels lame and heavy handed.

To each their own, but I think it demonstrates why it is a better movie than Infernal Affairs....

Eh, wouldn't say that. You make a good argument and maybe I should rewatch the damn thing, but.....eh, to each his own.

It really is called The Departed because it's about two men who are dead when the film starts. It's about a nihilistic inevitability of self-destruction these two men are trapped by because they became rats. It is why you don't see the title card "The Departed" until 15-20 minutes into the movie after Billy agrees to go undercover. He and Collin are now dead men walking. In retrospect and on repeat viewing you pick that up that they were doomed from the start.

 

[DACrowe]

At Lollapaoolza awhile back, my friends and I saw Kings of Leon to make sure we had a good spot for Tool after, and everyone was like "This is great music!" When I saw Transformers 2 in theaters, it had the same enthusiastic reaction from the crowd. So there.

Did you just compare a Martin Scorsese film that won Best Picture to Transformers 2? ****, to any Michael Bay movie? I'll put it this way few movies are that intense to me and I still remember that viewing experience. All I remember about watching NCFOM the first time was sitting on the edge of my seat and thinking, "That's it? If it weren't the Coens I'd think that was the most pretentious thing I've ever...."

I've watched it twice since and no longer think it is pretentious, but now that I know how it ends, it's as boring as **** and makes me drowsy. That's why I plan never to watch it again....Kind of the same reason I never plan to watch any Transformers movie again....

I think the story behind the scene is good, but I'm not a fan of the execution. Any supposed "tragedy" in the scene, to me, feels lame and heavy handed.

To each their own, but I think it demonstrates why it is a better movie than Infernal Affairs....

Eh, wouldn't say that. You make a good argument and maybe I should rewatch the damn thing, but.....eh, to each his own.

It really is called The Departed because it's about two men who are dead when the film starts. It's about a nihilistic inevitability of self-destruction these two men are trapped by because they became rats. It is why you don't see the title card "The Departed" until 15-20 minutes into the movie after Billy agrees to go undercover. He and Collin are now dead men walking. In retrospect and on repeat viewing you pick that up that they were doomed from the start.

 

[lime]

Just rewatched both movies, and aside that Javier Bardem performance in NCFOM is superior than all The Departed performances combined, The Departed is just the better movie. I has SO much better story.

And I have to say that Jack is giving one of my favorite (of he's) performances in that movie. He was just amazing.

 

[Evil Twin]

I get robbed of the death scene of what I though was the main character for most of the film, only to be given a long, drawn out monologue by Tommy Lee Jones, who was a supporting character AT BEST?"

Who do you think the "old man" of the title is? Hint, it's not Brolin or Bardem. If you think Tommy Lee Jones is only a supporting character at best, you're missing a large part of the point of the story.

 

[The Morningstar]

Exactly. The story is Jones'. It's about him accepting that times are changing, and there is nothing him and his generation can do about it. I really love the talk he and the other Sheriff had in the diner after Moss' death.

 

[Ultra Lantern]

No Country For Old Men

 

[Visceral]

The ending made the movie even better I thought. It highlighted the whole theme of the movie "No country for old men". Tommy Lee Jones and co are out of their element. The bad guys win sometimes, and there is nothing these good old boys can do about it.

I like them both, but i prefer No Country.

The Departed was good, but Infernal Affairs is far, far superior. Highlights of The Departed are Baldwin and Wahlberg.

I'm tired of that. Why? because it was the original?

Meh. The Departed is in my opinion underrated because of this. It doesn't get near the amount of social commentary analysis it deserves.

 

[kickass]

No Country For Old Men.

Never liked The Departed.