The Ending Won't Make Sense. No Matter How Hard They Try!

[Marvin]

So if others opinions don't match yours, then it's not worthwhile?

Gotcha.

That's twice now that you've taken what I've obviously meant and spun it to your ends.

and you know what they say about fooling someone twice

 

[Catman]

The involvement in all the hazards in SV is for Clark Kent the journalist. If I were an editor and I saw that the kid I hired had such involvement - remember he did work for the Torch back then - I'd chalk it up to his good-natured skills as a reporter.

Clark was barely a reporter for the Torch. Chloe did all the work. His biggest contribution was the lunch menu.

Yup because as we all know, it makes complete sense in the comics that none of the people around Clark on a regular basis can tell the difference between him and Superman.

The glasses thing is stupid. We're all aware of it. But that's a criticism of Superman in general. We're just focusing on Smallville right now.

 

[Bhoward]

The problem is, once Clark goes public, every media outlet would be chasing down the story doing background checks trying to figure out who he is. There would be someone who would recognize him as the same guy. Not everyone at the DP is his friend. It would be so easy to find out who he is, as opposed to canon, where Clark showed up with the glasses and then Superman debuted. This is something they would have to address in Smallville to get back to the simple, suspend disbelief, glasses is the disguise.

 

[Catman]

I always felt that they should give Superman a mask. I know that would anger the purist, but they've been upsetting people for the past 10 years. So, what difference does it make?

 

[Donut]

Can't they just do some magic stuff with Zatanna & the whole knowing the identity thing ?

 

[Prison Mike]

I always felt that they should give Superman a mask. I know that would anger the purist, but they've been upsetting people for the past 10 years. So, what difference does it make?

I remember buying a Superman costume for Halloween when I was 6 or 7 years old and it came with a mask. I don't know why...

 

[Catman]

I remember buying a Superman costume for Halloween when I was 6 or 7 years old and it came with a mask. I don't know why...

I always wanted them to adapt the Superman Blue/Red suit.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Urg, I always hated the red/blue era.

 

[Lencho01]

Since day one it's been a problem really. Outside of the show it doesn't work since Welling was already mature, so they can't go the route of him looking so different with age. Within the context of the show it also doesn't work.

Up until Season 8, Clark was not active as a superhero. Sure, he's saved people through out the years, but it wasn't really a matter of going out and doing it. More of people he knows are in danger and he tried to save them. But, there was never any need to have a secret identity other than people obsession with his "secret" which was made into a much bigger issue than it ever needed to be.

Other than stating the obvious of his currently working at the DP already and being associated with the Blur, they made him too popular back in high school. They could've left him as an outsider, but they had him be "best friends" with one of the most famous people in town or the world, really. And then they had him be the QB of his high school team and made that team be so great colleges were looking at him.

There's no way around it. Whatever they choose to do will just seem silly. People have seen him face before he's Superman. Simple as that. So...

 

[Catman]

Urg, I always hated the red/blue era.

But the costumes were cool. A version of that outfit for Clark on this show would be ideal. Especially since he'll be able to cover his face.

 

[Brainiac 8]

But the costumes were cool. A version of that outfit for Clark on this show would be ideal. Especially since he'll be able to cover his face.

yea, it was the closest thing to a mask he's ever worn.

 

[Superfreak]

NOOOOOOO! John Bryne ruined Superman by explaining the Suspension of Disbelief, showing that Superman blurs himself. That's a bad thing. And that example doesn't help you at all. In fact, I dare say that hurts you.

with this I disagree. It is the most logical, well thought out, fitting, and plausible explanation that helps to reduce the reliance on Suspension of Disbelief. There are degrees of said suspension, and any good explanation that reduces the degree of that suspension of disbelief is good. Pure suspension of disbelief is a very weak approach to writing a superman story.

infact, if they came up with an acceptable explanation for it, and do away with the SODB altogether, I'd be a much happier fan. The blurring explanation is a good one, because it doesn't absolutely remove the idea that he can be recognized and identified... while dealing with the problem of every camera in the world taking photos of him.

interestly, the problem is one that has more to do with history, than it does with the character. Initially, those people who would see superman, would rarely see Clark Kent, and visa versa. The characters that one had to worry about were those who interacted with both on a regular basis, namely lois (as far as SV is concerned, this is no longer an issue). But 80 odd years later, the world has change significantly, and the way that the character operated back in the 30s has not really adapted to the present situation. Everyone has a camera on them now, for the most part, along with all the other cameras that are lying around the environment now. The degree of, and reliance upon suspension of disbelief has actually grown over that time.

at some point, this is going to have to be dealt with. Suspension of disbelief has essentially become the lazy excuse for writers not having a novel way to deal with the issue of recognition.

I don't really consider it a core attribute of the property, but rather, an excuse that lazy writers use, so they don't have to use their brains to actually explain why the costume works in a pleasing and acceptable manner.

 

[Webhead2006]

Doing a mask would have been an interesting thing to do. As for glasses I still wished theybhad clark start back in season 3 when he was blind.

 

[Bhoward]

Wearing a mask would bring about trust issues.

 

[DavidB1111]

This Clark is too much of a public figure, son of a Senator, etc. I don't see anything wrong with correcting that. I don't feel it would be a "jump the shark" moment or a big f**k you to all the fans either. The producers have said they are lining the show back up with the comic canon so why not this viewpoint. Lastly, anyone trying to take over the world qualifies as a *****ebag. I don't think he cares enough about humans to stop at wiping their minds. I'm just saying.

With respect to you, and Superfreak, Catman, and others, you are all wrong.
Also, in one comic Superman conquered the world, does that make him a *****ebag?

You can't disregard Suspension of Disbelief.

Suspension of disbelief has essentially become the lazy excuse for writers not having a novel way to deal with the issue of recognition.

100% incorrect.

I could spend hours and hours trying to explain this to you, and others, but it would in the end be impossible, because none of you will ever accept you're wrong.
You can't even entertain the idea.

I tried to be as diplomatic as possible, but I can't be it any longer.

If anyone things Smallville needs to actually address why no one can tell Clark Kent and Superman are the same person, they are not a fan of Superman.
They must also think John Bryne is awesome. He's not.

Because if you think him destroying Suspension of Disbelief was good, it just reinforces what I said near the beginning of this thread.

Only two types of people, People in comas, and politicians, need Smallville to address the identity issue.

Now, I was not aware that Catman, Superfreak, and many others are all politicians.
If you are not, please explain to me how a person in a coma can use the internet.

If you are neither a Politician, or a man in a coma, then please explain to me why you think Smallville should not just insult every fan, but insult Jerry and Joe, the creators of Superman, Kirk Allen, who I would imagine is dead now, George Reeves, we all know he killed himself, Christopher Reeve, R.I.P, and all those who have had something to do with Superman in the last 80 years.

Yes, I wish I was joking, or being an internet troll, or something equally *****ebag like, but I'm not. I am serious as a heart attack.

And if there's something I will not stand, it's an insult to the memory of Christopher Reeve. Let alone him combined with the memory of Jerry and Joe.

So, yes, if Smallville address this, I will not be the only one angry. You can count on that.

In fact, while I may be insulted for this, it is how it is.
And to quote Lucifer, from the Xena episode You are There.
"You're a real pain, you know that, I can't wait to get you down here."

Also, if I was a troll, wouldn't I be calling you all *****ebags too?
Sounds like what a troll would do.
Or insulting someone and claiming they're 8 years old. Wait...Superfreak insulted me by saying that...I'm just saying. It sounds like what a troll would do.

 

[DarKJediKnight]

Suspernsion of Disbelief just won't make everything ok.

I've watched Smallville with hopes that they'll cover this secret identity issue, and even up to this point where now it's JUST very hard to explain that. But still, I'm hoping the writers are going to repair that, even if it's just a mind-wipe cop out. We've comic books like Birthright and Secret Origins explaining that, but why can't Smallville?

 

[DavidB1111]

Suspension of Disbelief just won't make everything ok.

Agghh...did you guys all get together and decide on when to drive me insane? My new title is Superboy Prime.

If you read what I wrote, and then still think that, there is literally nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Nor anyone ever could. I don't even think Superman could convince you.

Anyway, I'm taking some time off from posting, you'll see why if you read the Major Season spoilers thread.

I shall continue to state until a moderator tells me to shut my facehole, that only a Politician or a man in a coma can ever claim to need Smallville to explain this.

I never knew that so many members of congress are on this forum!

"[FONT=COMIC SANS MS,PALATINO,BOOKMAN OLD STYLE,HELVETICA,ARIAL,TIMES]Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. [/FONT]"
Samuel Clemens, A.K.A. Mark Twain.

 

[Bhoward]

DavidB, I will say, we will agree to disagree. There is nothing wrong with the shows writers finding a creative and skillful way to align the show with the mythos. If you're offended by them doing that, well, that's a whole other topic.

 

[DavidB1111]

Er, I thought you wanted them to use a mindwipe or something to make everyone forget Clark is Superman, instead of dealing with Suspension of Disbelief.

Because that has nothing to do with aligning with the mythos.
You cannot claim otherwise.

Anything from them doing this is just icing on top of the cake of evil known as adding Connor Kent to Smallville.

I am out. Trust me when I say "This is not the time to be making enemies." Voltaire.

 

[Bhoward]

Align with the mythos in that only Clark's closest friends are the ones noticeably being fooled by the glasses. Too much has happened in the Smallville universe to convincingly have that original suspension of disbelief. Well, anyway, I'm looking forward to the remaining episodes. I love Superman stories.

 

[DavidB1111]

Too much has happened in the Smallville universe to convincingly have that original suspension of disbelief

"You say these words, but I do not think they mean what you think they mean."

 

[Lead Cenobite]

I always felt that they should give Superman a mask. I know that would anger the purist, but they've been upsetting people for the past 10 years. So, what difference does it make?

I think they should make use of the technology of the fortress, give him something that distorts people's perception of him as Superman. I just can't picture Superman with a mask or a cowl or a hood.

 

[Superfreak]

I'm fairly certain there is no incarnation of Superman that has that power.
The closest is the kiss of forgetfulness that what's his name used to annoy Richard Donner in Superman 2.

Like I said, there is only one real way to deal with this.

David, nothing you have written has explained or justified the need for the existance and use of SODB. NOTHING. All you've written is 'accept it, that is the way it is', the only difference is, you couldn't precise it down and had to go into it with an over inflated metaphor.... AGAIN.

I'm not saying SODB is a terrible thing... but it's also something that NO written property should rely upon. As I stated earlier, the times have changed, and the reality in which superman exists has changed since his early days. Adaptation must occur to deal with new problems,,, such as mass media having cameras everywhere. It worked in the 30s... but it's much more problematic in the new millenium.

you say there is only one way to deal with it, and that is not to touch it at all. That's weak man. No matter how engrained the concept of SODB is within the character of Superman, it is still a BS excuse to help writers avoid solving the tough problems in their narratives. Yes, it has existed within Superman properties since the beginning, but the degree to which it has been used has inflated over the decades to the point where it almost doesn't make sense anymore. SODB can still be a part of the property, I'm not saying eliminate it all together... but it has serious flaws,,, and sooner or later, someone with some writing skill, and some class, needs to fix this concept, so that it makes more sense, and works better in the modern context.

to say: just accept it, that is the way it is, is totally weak.

As for Smallville, they actually made movement in the direction of dealing with SODB, by adding more power to his inner circle, and providing him earlier than usual with a group of peers that can act to protect him, and his identity. Also, Smallville has dealt with the primary characters that need to deal with SODB... as I stated earlier, LOIS knows already. She's the one that sees both Superman and Clark Kent the most. Now that she knows, dealing with SODB with her, is not an issue anymore.


My opinion/solution on the issue is this: that like in Smallville, there are many people who know the Clark Kent is Superman. But that these people are complicit in his actions. They allow him to be Clark Kent, because they see that both Superman and Clark are good 'people', and they also protect his identity. IMO, this is the best way to explain away the worst of the SODB. That the people that Superman/Clark touch, and those that put two and two together, realize that revealing the dual identity would do nothing, but hurt someone who looks out for them. They honor him by maintaining his secret.

likewise, in the SVU, I've always felt that Lex has always known... but that Lex treats Clark with respect, but hates superman. I really like the duality of the relationship where Lex knows that Clark is Superman, but will not strike at modest Clark, only at Superman.

I like the idea of both Superman's allies, and his arch villain, respecting the human personae.




Lastly: my age old Superherohype.com gripe with Superman's powers: THERE IS NO RICHARD DONNER MIND WIPE KISS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you love your Superman, then you must realize that this MYTH was dispelled 2 movies later when Lois reveals that she's known all along.


Dave, the reason I jump on you is because of the 'my opinion is right, and all of you are stupid for not agreeing with me vibe' that you put out there... along with the endless metaphor laden posts which rarely, if ever apply. I'm trying to debate this, but all you do is say: 'no, your wrong, and I'm right', and that grinds my gears.

 

[DavidB1111]

Well, maybe this will be my last post for awhile.

Okay. if you truly knew your Superman movies, you'd realize that a. Richard Donner didn't come up with the kiss. He was going to have Clark Kent fly around backwards and change things backwards in time like in the first movie.
In fact the kissing was by the other guy, and done to insult Richard Donner.

B. When did Lois reveal in Superman 4 that she knew all along?


Let's face it though, saying I must be 8 years old, isn't exactly going to win your argument any points on my part, unless you apologize for that statement.

If you do, then I will accept you have a valid point. But until then, it's fruit of the poisonous tree. Everything you say to me is tainted because I remember you insulted my intelligence after I went out of my way to explain my quote. You know, the whole. "The great masses of the people will fall victim more easily to a big lie, then a small one."

You'll have to forgive me if I'm little annoyed towards outright rudeness.

Also, no, Smallville cannot do this. They cannot address Suspension of Disbelief, shattering it completely, and actively saying to all their fans "We think you are so dumb, that people with Down Syndrome are smarter than you."

I have explained my point of view, yes, they have no choice. They cannot mention it.

You can claim that times have changed since the 1930s, hell, even an amoeba could tell you that, , and because of that, they have to explain it.

But no, Suspension of Disbelief has never ever been some lame story concept.

And especially after the reveal of Connor Kent coming to this show, and added to that fact, that Chloe will more than likely not be made a villain, there is no way they can get away with it now.

That would be the trifecta of total fail.
If they did all three of these things, I wouldn't have to deal with the crew at all. The thousands of angry fans that would make the Joker look downright sane, would take care of the crew for me.

I wouldn't even have time to put on my shoes before they would be rendered harmless as the CIA would say. Or if you prefer, Terminated.

We could dance in circles all you want, and yeah, I think that might be a metaphor, but I'm not going to change my viewpoint, until you can prove me wrong on everything.

If Smallville does explain this and destroy Suspension of Disbelief, it truly will without a doubt be the greatest insult to the memory of Christopher Reeve.

I'm sorry, but it is true. And how would anyone enjoy watching a show that literally spat on the grave of Superman himself?

He knew as much about Superman as the creators themselves knew, if not even more.
I know for a fact he knew more about Superman then every single person on this forum, and Kryptonsite, and Televison Without Pity, combined.

To do these things on Smallville, to add Connor, to make Chloe a hero, to actively explain why people don't know he's Superman, all that would be so horrible of a crime against Christopher Reeve I would not be surprised if he rose from the grave, and gained Superman's powers, just to scare the hell out of Tom Welling, by flying him around the world.

Call me insane, I don't care anymore. Say any childish thing you can, it would just prove I was right. After all, if you can not entertain the idea that I could be right, how can I entertain the idea that I could be wrong?
That is what will happen if they do the trifecta.

I leave you in peace, don't disappoint me by turning into Superboy Prime and fly into a berserk rage.
Unless you scream "I'll kill you to death, David."

 

[Webhead2006]

Maybe we should just chill here and just watch and see what they do if they try to explain certain things. Sure the whole id thing been a sticking point for me for yrs. But I am more now on wait and see what they do approach. Since nothing we can do now. So I will praise or complain once I see what happens.