The Ending Won't Make Sense. No Matter How Hard They Try!

[Superfreak]

Well, maybe this will be my last post for awhile.

Okay. if you truly knew your Superman movies, you'd realize that a. Richard Donner didn't come up with the kiss. He was going to have Clark Kent fly around backwards and change things backwards in time like in the first movie.
In fact the kissing was by the other guy, and done to insult Richard Donner.

B. When did Lois reveal in Superman 4 that she knew all along?

why don't you watch it?

Clark jumps off the balcony in a 'suicidal' manner, lois goes over with him... Superman catches her on the way down, but he's still wearing his glasses. They go on another romantic flight.

when they land, Lois says she remembers everything.

this scene dispells the idea of the super mind whip kiss. Her reaction to the kiss is not one of losing memory, but of being kissed by a larger than life super being.


and if you watch the whole of SIV with a keen eye, you will see that Lois is always encouraging Superman by going to Clark. At the beginning of the movie, when Superman is accused of not caring about the world, she goes directly to Clark and says "I"M SURE Superman will do the right thing"... and later in the movie, she returns the cape to dying Clark. Simply put, as in Smallville, the Lois of the Superman movies respects the decision to keep Superman and Clark seperate.

it's never definitively stated in the movie, but it's clear if you look for it in the portrayals.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Superman IV is an abomination. Even the people who worked on it believed so. Only some bits of the plot at the beginning was any good, the rest was just pitiful. And as for the Mind-wipe kiss thing, it's not exactly a revelation that Superman II ended on that note. I don't need to watch the sequel to understand what happened there.

But anyway, a lot of crazier things have happened in the comics of that era, it doesn't really matter anymore. In Smallville they can still pull off the dual identity without being too nit-picky about it. The Ending will make sense. Good night ya'll.

 

[Superfreak]

Superman IV is an abomination. Even the people who worked on it believed so. Only some bits of the plot at the beginning was any good, the rest was just pitiful. And as for the Mind-wipe kiss thing, it's not exactly a revelation that Superman II ended on that note. I don't need to watch the sequel to understand what happened there.

as is much of SV, but it's still there. SIV exists, super mindwipe kiss does not.

 

[DavidB1111]

I didn't hate Superman 4 that much.

It's just I don't remember the big details.
Just that Superman moved the moon out of orbit.

Seriously, though, I did like it when I was younger.

And, I see, Superfreak, thank you.
Now if you would please touch on some of my other points.
Not the rambling insanity though.

Like the fact I would be happy if you apologized for calling me 8 years old.
Once you do, I won't mention it again. So, I don't see why it would be a bad thing.

Then again, Si vis pacem, para bellum. "If you desire peace, prepare for War."

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[Superfreak]

I didn't hate Superman 4 that much.

It's just I don't remember the big details.
Just that Superman moved the moon out of orbit.

Seriously, though, I did like it when I was younger.

And, I see, Superfreak, thank you.
Now if you would please touch on some of my other points.
Not the rambling insanity though.

Like the fact I would be happy if you apologized for calling me 8 years old.
Once you do, I won't mention it again. So, I don't see why it would be a bad thing.

Then again, Si vis pacem, para bellum. "If you desire peace, prepare for War."

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yeah sorry about that, it was just because you completely missed the point I was trying to make, and continue to ramble.

But as for the SODB... the only reason it came into being was because the world has changed. When it was only Lois and the people at the DP that Superman had to mislead, SODB was trumped by superman's ability to mislead.

Because the world has changed, reliance on SODB more problematic. It doesn't make SODB a core aspect of the character, but a periphery one that has grown over the decades.

The major problem with it, is that Superman is superman, you can't really give him a mask. Likewise, Clark Kent, is Clark Kent.

The Byrne ability for Superman to blur himself, coupled with his other powers, should be enough for SODB to be denied, in favor of Superman's ability to dispell any suspicions. Used in congress with other classic ways of dispelling the Superman Clark Kent connection (ie. killing clark for a time, body doubles, convenient removal of power to show Clark is mortal... and a zillion others) should be enough to totally remove the need for SODB if used properly. Part of the fun of a Superman story is how Superman maintains the secret, without wearing a mask. But SODB is the Ex Deus Machina, and it's too often used as a fall back for poor writing.

Beacon could have actually been used in this manner quite well. Had Clark actually been shot by the kryptonite bullet saving his Senator mother from assasination, it would have easily solved the problem in this thread. Clark would have been proven mortal in the public eye, and then the story could go on as usual.

 

[DavidB1111]

I don't believe we'll ever agree on this, sadly.

Suspension of Disbelief is not something Smallville ever needs to address.

Suspension of Disbelief existed before Superman.
It's a literary tool.

And I'm sorry, but in my opinion, based in fact, it's not something used mostly only for bad writing. And also, I still stand by what I said, Suspension of disbelief should only need to be explained to two types of people, People in comas, and Politicians. They both don't use their brains.

Nothing short of a shotgun blast to my brain is going to change my mind on this.

There's still no need for Smallville to address why people don't know he's Superman.

Even something as simple as him saying Clark Kent is the mask, and wearing glasses, works perfectly for me.

As long as Smallville doesn't talk about why people don't know he's Superman, it's fine for me.
Anything else would insult the fan's collective intelligence.

John Bryne, is a bad person, his explaining Clark Kent's blurring ability literally was one of the biggest insults ever made to Superman fans.

That coupled with his other crimes, doesn't help your case, I'm sorry.

And since you keep forgetting to apologize for that other thing, do I have literally have to put it in bold? Please apologize for saying I was 8 years old.

Thank you. Otherwise, Fruit of the Poisonous tree. It doesn't really make me want to agree with you on anything, ever, when you don't actively address something I've asked you to address for at least 5 posts.

Lastly, is Critical thinking skills too hard for the majority of the people?

 

[SatEL]

Some people on here stating Suspension of Disbelief have me laughing (And I thought Superman Returns fans were delusional), look Suspension of Disbelief will only take you so far. If Smallville ended things without giving a some what explainable reason as to why people don’t recognise that Superman and Clark are one in the same it will only cause a **** storm in the fandom and lower Smallville quality.

 

[Bhoward]

Smallville doesn't need to address the suspension of disbelief in the entire Superman universe, just the SOD in the Smallville universe. They took things way past what has always been the norm for the Superman universe SODB. That's what has to be addressed.

 

[DavidB1111]

Some people on here stating Suspension of Disbelief have me laughing (And I thought Superman Returns fans were delusional), look Suspension of Disbelief will only take you so far. If Smallville ended things without giving a some what explainable reason as to why people don’t recognise that Superman and Clark are one in the same it will only cause a **** storm in the fandom and lower Smallville quality.

You know nothing about Suspension of Disbelief.
I know more about the Sumerian Language than you will ever know about the concept of Suspension of Disbelief.

Also, reasonable discussion on the internet requires you to learn tact. Please try it.

Suspension of Disbelief, the very fabric of it, is required to enjoy this show.

You cannot have this show mention why no one knows Clark Kent and Superman are two different people.

For insulting me, you have lost all possible respect from me. I now respect internet trolls more than you. Actually, no, I respect John Bryne more than you. That should tell you how bad you have fallen in my eyes.
Also, don't ever confuse me with delusional people.

I could debate this until the sun explodes in 5 billion years, but I don't think I can convince someone who is so fanatical in their belief that they resort to name calling.


And no, it won't lower the quality of the show if they don't explain it. It will destroy the show forever if they do.

You must really hate comics, or all TV shows ever, because the majority of them don't deal with Suspension of Disbelief.

As Dr, House put it, "Differential Diagnosis. People are idiots."

I will say it is possible I am wrong. However, the odds are not high.

 

[C. Lee]

Just to let people know...I'm having a bit of trouble with my computer, so I haven't been able to do as much as I need to the last few days...but I am subscribing to this thread so that I can spend more time tomorrow reading through it better. Looks like one or two people may get in a little bit of trouble for thier trollish ways in here.

Think about that DavidB1111 before you make anymore of your superior knowledge posts.

 

[DavidB1111]

I am sorry for what I have said. I never meant to come across as superior to others.
For that, I apologize. To not only you, but to all others on this forum, across all topics.

I truly am sorry. I should learn to let things go. It's just hard sometimes.
I am guilty of holding grudges.

I am also quick to try for a peaceful solution. And that's all I want.
I will try from now on to not get angry at what others say to me, and from now on try not to let things escalate.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

This show has made its fair share of mistakes. We all have to accept that. As a result, the ending won't make any sense. In the upcoming episode, Clark will become a disguise. Um. . .isn't it a little too late for that? Clark Kent hasn't exactly been under the radar. Smallville has an entire police file on him since he was pretty much involved in every freak and Luthor related incident. He also made a few enemies along the way. Clark was Lex Luthor's best friend for many years. A few tabloid's are aware of this. And so is the government who launched an investigation on him in season three. Lex was the one to get him out of it when he agreed to assist in the investigation against his father. Speaking of the government, they know he's a vigilante! So, when Superman shows up, all of Smallville, the government, and people close to the Luthors will know he's Clark Kent. Oh...and did I forget to mention that he's the son of a Senator? Maybe he should consider turning Superman into the disguise. This show has made so many changes to the mythology that seeing Superman with a mask isn't gonna be a big deal. Now, let's move on to Lex Luthor. On Friday's episode, it was revealed that Lex is beginning to lose his memory. What's the point of that when anyone, and I mean anyone, can remind/inform him of all his past activities - including his friendship with Clark and the 3-year investigation he had on him.

It seems like they were better off creating a Superman universe that had nothing to do with the comics or previous adaptations. An elseworld type thing. Or simply just giving Superman a mask. Although, with the government knowing about his superpowers - that might have been pointless as well.

I'm glad to see that someone else sees what I'm seeing...they ruined the mythos of the Superman character to where it doesn't make any sense! And now you will see them scramble to cover their butts and save face and it's not going to happen...which is why I stopped watching

 

[Webhead2006]

I don't think they ruin the mythos. They have used. Alot of different mythos stuff in the show. Sure some didn't work out great, and other times they did wonders. But like any incarnations of a long running character. They bring in there own stories to tell and but there own mark on characters. Even for all the crap stuff sv has done. Personally I think the good stuff out weighs it and overall been a enjoyable show.

 

[DarKJediKnight]

I'm glad to see that someone else sees what I'm seeing...they ruined the mythos of the Superman character to where it doesn't make any sense! And now you will see them scramble to cover their butts and save face and it's not going to happen...which is why I stopped watching

If you've stopped watching why are you still here?

But to be fair to you I have to agree that I didn't want some of the things they did with the show that's supposed to show Clark's life in his hometown Smallville before he became Superman and his friendship with his future nemesis Lex Luthor... that's the premise of the show I'm interested in. But instead they've brought in a lot of characters he's supposed the meet in his Superman years: GA and the Justice Leauge, Kara and Conner, Lois Lane, Perry White, his future Superman villains like Metallo, Brainiac; I also didn't like that they haven't covered the "secret identity" issue yet, and his breakup with Lana.

But with all these mistake's I keep watching the show because not only it's a DC Comics show in TV, I think the cast is perfect in whatever roles they'be been given, Tom Welling is a great Clark Kent, Erica Durance as Lois Lane, MR is an excellent Lex, so is John Glover, John Schneider is a definitive Jonathan Kent, Annette O' Toole also. And even I don't like that he already fought his Superman villains, i like James Marsters as Brainiac and BAG as metallo.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

I catch it every now and again, I'm watching right now and to see Oliver scale the wall like that looked dumb. Throwing Desaad in isn't very impressive. Erica is pretty good as Lois, I love John Glover in everything he does including Smallville, John Schneider is great as John Kent but he'll never beat Glenn Ford.

 

[DavidB1111]

But Clark demostrated Silver Age Superman's microvision, that combined with the Clark Kent is the disguise thing, and we have SA Superman.

I'm happy for that. Sure Desaad was a little stranger than his comic counterpart, but not as much as some...

 

[Webhead2006]

ya for me too sure certain things like the lana and clark drama, witch/vampire/ghost possesions possesions were bad, same with the whole jimmy thing/doomsday. But the show has done alot of good things too. which like i said before i think outweighs the bad. Overall the show for me has been an enjoyable ride, and i cant wait to see it end.

 

[Superfreak]

It's a literary tool.

yeah, it's the I can't think of a way to solve this problem in my story, so I'm just going to ignore it tool, the ex deus machina of a writer who uses excuse, instead of skill to write

as for apologizing, I retract it now. I wasn't forgetting, I don't owe you anything.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I catch it every now and again, I'm watching right now and to see Oliver scale the wall like that looked dumb. Throwing Desaad in isn't very impressive. Erica is pretty good as Lois, I love John Glover in everything he does including Smallville, John Schneider is great as John Kent but he'll never beat Glenn Ford.

Glenn Ford was on screen as Jonathan Kent for all of what? 5 minutes?

 

[fixxxer1022]

none of us have any clue how this show will end. NOBODY!

whatever they do, i hope and pray they make the fans happy and do not try a mind wipe or dream sequence type thing. it deserves a proper superman type ending with him in the suit and flying. with this show you never really know what they may do next.

 

[Webhead2006]

ya that is all we can hope for that the finale will be satifying to us fans and we are happy. I am sure they are trying their best.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

Glenn Ford was on screen as Jonathan Kent for all of what? 5 minutes?

5 minutes is all you need when you're Glenn Ford

 

[Mikelus]

I catch it every now and again, I'm watching right now and to see Oliver scale the wall like that looked dumb.

Looked dumb? Really? Then tell us how it should've looked Mr. Director.

Back on topic, wearing a mask is even worse, that's not what Superman does.

The best way to handle it within this universe is with Kryptonian technology. The shield could project some kind of invisible (to the human eye) energy field that distorts Clark's face to the people looking at him (his face doesn't really change obviously), problem solved.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

it didn't look natural. it looked like he was being pulled up the wall by wires effortlessly...I don't know how I would have done it but it would have been different that's for sure

 

[Mikelus]

^^ To be fair, they do what they can with a limited TV budget. Hopefully, they'll have enough cash for the finale.