Iron Man The first superhero to actually...save the WORLD.

[LadyVader]

Yeah, exactly how is he a selfish *****e, since out of Iron Man, Batman and Superman... the so called 'cause' has had the most effect on him? His personal and professional life has always suffered because he chooses to do what he does, whereas Iron Man and Batman are rich and have everything they need. They can afford to dedicate themselves to the cause. Peter still has to work for a living, he still needs to provide for his family.

 

[Silver Spider]

Yeah, exactly how is he a selfish *****e, since out of Iron Man, Batman and Superman... the so called 'cause' has had the most effect on him? His personal and professional life has always suffered because he chooses to do what he does, whereas Iron Man and Batman are rich and have everything they need. They can afford to dedicate themselves to the cause. Peter still has to work for a living, he still needs to provide for his family.

Exactly, Spiderman's sense of responsibility is one of the most stressed aspects of his life. He could be making money by performing for audiences and all that, but he instead uses his powers to save people.

 

[mehdi5]

How i see it Iron Man really did save the world but not from destruction. Iron Man stopped Iron Monger(well the guy in the suit) and if he didn't defeated him he could've taken over the world with the Iron Monger suits. As the other guy said

Spoiler

With 10 of these a man could rule all of Asia.

So he did save the world but from something over a longer period of time. FF: Rise of the Silver Surfer did save the world also but without some superpowered silver surfer from outer space they would've got the cr*p beaten out of them any dumbass can save the world if they have a lifeform from another planet. Iron Man was just badass, the action was good, the jokes we're good and now that i think of it he is one of the not many heroes that savs the world without any super powers unlike Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Hulk etc.

 

[Silver Spider]

How i see it Iron Man really did save the world but not from destruction. Iron Man stopped Iron Monger(well the guy in the suit) and if he didn't defeated him he could've taken over the world with the Iron Monger suits. As the other guy said

Spoiler

With 10 of these a man could rule all of Asia.

So he did save the world but from something over a longer period of time.

Well if you're going to use that logic, Spiderman saved the world from the Goblin, F4 saved the world from Doom, the X-men saved the world from Magneto, Hulk saved the world from his father, etc. They would all eventually strive to control the world.

 

[LadyLane]

I think that all the superheroes save the world. Everytime there is a mjor threat, it's always "the world at stake". What sets Iron Man a part for me is that his threat is my threat and your threat, too: terrorists. Not some made-up villian. Iron Monger was made up so I'm not really talking about him. I'm tlaking about The Ten Rings and whatever else terrorist organiziation could get their hands on US military weaponry. Every superhero has something special that sets them apart, and Iron Man (movie speakin anyways cause I'm just now starting the comics) is special because he fights what we in real life are trying to fight.

 

[Franklin Richards]

How i see it Iron Man really did save the world but not from destruction. Iron Man stopped Iron Monger(well the guy in the suit) and if he didn't defeated him he could've taken over the world with the Iron Monger suits. As the other guy said

Spoiler

With 10 of these a man could rule all of Asia.

So he did save the world but from something over a longer period of time. FF: Rise of the Silver Surfer did save the world also but without some superpowered silver surfer from outer space they would've got the cr*p beaten out of them any dumbass can save the world if they have a lifeform from another planet. Iron Man was just badass, the action was good, the jokes we're good and now that i think of it he is one of the not many heroes that savs the world without any super powers unlike Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Hulk etc.

You seem to forget that that superpowered lifeform was part of the problem. Without the FF the Silver Surfer would have just done what Galactus wanted. Give some credit for ****'s sake.

 

[The_Joker7895]

Exactly, Spiderman's sense of responsibility is one of the most stressed aspects of his life. He could be making money by performing for audiences and all that, but he instead uses his powers to save people.

True, but their have been times in the comics when Spiderman tried to profit from his crime fighting. I remember at one point he asked to join the F4 because he thought it would be a paying job. Also, he's reported crimes as a civilian in hopes of collecting the police reward.

The reason I find Spiderman selfish (mostly in his film incarnation) is that he constantly is bemoaning how he can't have what he wants in life. In fact, he abandoned the hero thing in Spiderman 2 so that he could have what he wanted in life. Iron Man and Batman may be rich, but their mono-maniacal dedication to their ideals keeps them from ever having real relationships, friends, etc. Batman is the epitome of personal sacrifice. He may have money, but that does not mean in any way that he's happy. In fact, Batman has pretty much accepted that his life is not going to be happy because he feels that until he wins his war on crime and injustice, nothing else matters. Struggling isn't the same as sacrificing. Batman and Iron Man sacrifice pretty much any chance at being happy and having a normal social or romantic life in favor of dedicating themselves fully to their causes. They also don't whine about it. They accept it. Again, this for me is what kills Spiderman. He whines constantly. I don't care how broke he is or how strained his romantic life is, he whines. Plus, he's always implying that he needs something more out of life. A girlfriend, money, a father figure, etc, etc etc etc. The list never ends. Spiderman may be a hero, but he never fails to find something wrong with his personal life. Batman and Iron Man have problems in their personal lives too, but they don't whine about it all the damn time. I think the movies really just killed Spiderman for me because as noble as his intentions may be, and as much as he thinks he's dedicating himself to the cause, he never seems to be satisfied with anything in his personal life, and always finds some way of making his problems more important than everyone else. That, to me, is the epitome of selfishness. Perhaps he's a little bit less emo and selfish in the comics, but if we're talking about films, Spiderman is extremely self-centered in all three films. Stark may be a prick sometimes, but he never loses sight of the greater good.

 

[Octoberist]

He probably just compared him to Spiderman and Batman, but really. Superman saved the world in SR, FF in FF2:ROSS, Constantine, Hellboy... heck, even Spawn saved the world if you think about it.

as much as I don't care for Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer, you're right. they did save the world from that evil cloud menace!

 

[LadyVader]

True, but their have been times in the comics when Spiderman tried to profit from his crime fighting. I remember at one point he asked to join the F4 because he thought it would be a paying job. Also, he's reported crimes as a civilian in hopes of collecting the police reward.

The reason I find Spiderman selfish (mostly in his film incarnation) is that he constantly is bemoaning how he can't have what he wants in life. In fact, he abandoned the hero thing in Spiderman 2 so that he could have what he wanted in life. Iron Man and Batman may be rich, but their mono-maniacal dedication to their ideals keeps them from ever having real relationships, friends, etc. Batman is the epitome of personal sacrifice. He may have money, but that does not mean in any way that he's happy. In fact, Batman has pretty much accepted that his life is not going to be happy because he feels that until he wins his war on crime and injustice, nothing else matters. Struggling isn't the same as sacrificing. Batman and Iron Man sacrifice pretty much any chance at being happy and having a normal social or romantic life in favor of dedicating themselves fully to their causes. They also don't whine about it. They accept it. Again, this for me is what kills Spiderman. He whines constantly. I don't care how broke he is or how strained his romantic life is, he whines. Plus, he's always implying that he needs something more out of life. A girlfriend, money, a father figure, etc, etc etc etc. The list never ends. Spiderman may be a hero, but he never fails to find something wrong with his personal life. Batman and Iron Man have problems in their personal lives too, but they don't whine about it all the damn time. I think the movies really just killed Spiderman for me because as noble as his intentions may be, and as much as he thinks he's dedicating himself to the cause, he never seems to be satisfied with anything in his personal life, and always finds some way of making his problems more important than everyone else. That, to me, is the epitome of selfishness. Perhaps he's a little bit less emo and selfish in the comics, but if we're talking about films, Spiderman is extremely self-centered in all three films. Stark may be a prick sometimes, but he never loses sight of the greater good.

Spiderman is selfish because he whines? He's a real person, who grew up with a real family, who has had people beat on him from day one and still... still he finds the strength within himself to do the right thing. Because of that whole responsability thing. But he still has every day problems like everybody does, and the way to deal with that some times is to... whine. It's called release. It's what regular people do. I don't know what you want from your superheroes, you want them to do their job, never complain and preferably do it with a smile on their face but that only applies to people who are rich in real life and pretty much have nothing to lose.

Iron man doesn't have a wife and family like Peter, Batman doesn't believe in caring for another person (at least not in a person who can't defend themselves). Let's put it this way. Batman does what he does because it's what he was meant to do, it's what he wants to do. The same goes for Iron Man. Spiderman does what he does because he HAS to. Because he was given great power and with great power bla bla bla. See the difference? He is not doing something he wants, he is doing something out of a sheer sense of duty. How is he selfish if he goes against himself, against his own wishes?

Furthermore, I believe it is a whole lot more meaningful to be a superhero when your life is ****ty, than to be a superhero when you're rich and powerful. And BECAUSE you are a superhero, you have every right to complain and whine and do whatever you want to do that brings you a little peace and comfort. God bless you for just existing.

 

[The Guard]

I never said they're the only ones who act on a global level, but that they're the only ones who THINK on a global level.

That is simply not true. I'm not sure where you get the idea that Xavier only looks at issues that affect his students, because that's just not the case, even in the movies. Historically, the X-Men very much look at things on a global level, politically, socially, and in terms of worldwide threats. So does Superman, especially in the last ten years in the comics, as he became a more global presence as a reporter. Superman having a somewhat naive outlook doesn't prevent him from looking at things on a global or social level. Ditto many other heroes. And Batman and Iron Man are just as reactive as any other hero. It depends on the writer.

And guys, wanting a normal life isn't selfish.

 

[Silver Spider]

True, but their have been times in the comics when Spiderman tried to profit from his crime fighting. I remember at one point he asked to join the F4 because he thought it would be a paying job. Also, he's reported crimes as a civilian in hopes of collecting the police reward.

The F4 thing happened very early on in his career. I mean wasn't that in his first issue? As for reporting crimes, I guess he needs the money.

The reason I find Spiderman selfish (mostly in his film incarnation) is that he constantly is bemoaning how he can't have what he wants in life. In fact, he abandoned the hero thing in Spiderman 2 so that he could have what he wanted in life. Iron Man and Batman may be rich, but their mono-maniacal dedication to their ideals keeps them from ever having real relationships, friends, etc. Batman is the epitome of personal sacrifice. He may have money, but that does not mean in any way that he's happy. In fact, Batman has pretty much accepted that his life is not going to be happy because he feels that until he wins his war on crime and injustice, nothing else matters. Struggling isn't the same as sacrificing. Batman and Iron Man sacrifice pretty much any chance at being happy and having a normal social or romantic life in favor of dedicating themselves fully to their causes. They also don't whine about it. They accept it. Again, this for me is what kills Spiderman. He whines constantly. I don't care how broke he is or how strained his romantic life is, he whines. Plus, he's always implying that he needs something more out of life. A girlfriend, money, a father figure, etc, etc etc etc. The list never ends. Spiderman may be a hero, but he never fails to find something wrong with his personal life. Batman and Iron Man have problems in their personal lives too, but they don't whine about it all the damn time. I think the movies really just killed Spiderman for me because as noble as his intentions may be, and as much as he thinks he's dedicating himself to the cause, he never seems to be satisfied with anything in his personal life, and always finds some way of making his problems more important than everyone else. That, to me, is the epitome of selfishness. Perhaps he's a little bit less emo and selfish in the comics, but if we're talking about films, Spiderman is extremely self-centered in all three films. Stark may be a prick sometimes, but he never loses sight of the greater good.

I'll give you Batman for his sacrifice; but does Tony even want a real relationship? Spiderman is still young, and he's still trying to figure out his life.

 

[SLYspyder]

First hero to "save the world"? Don't think so, Spider-Man did save the world in Sm2 from that power source that Dr. Octopus created that could've devoured the whole planet eventually.

But if you meant "be a hero outside his own city"? Maybe, after all, Spider-Man can't websling across the world to stop terrorists. And he can't afford to buy plane tickets everytime there's a conflict. He just doesn't have the resources Iron Man has.

And for the "nice to see a hero whose not a teenager" comment. Spider-Man was only a teenager in the first movie, so far, 2/3 of the SM movies have shown him as an adult, not as old as Stark, but an adult nonetheless, so that comment is completely unfounded.

 

[The_Joker7895]

Spiderman is selfish because he whines? He's a real person, who grew up with a real family, who has had people beat on him from day one and still... still he finds the strength within himself to do the right thing. Because of that whole responsability thing. But he still has every day problems like everybody does, and the way to deal with that some times is to... whine. It's called release. It's what regular people do. I don't know what you want from your superheroes, you want them to do their job, never complain and preferably do it with a smile on their face but that only applies to people who are rich in real life and pretty much have nothing to lose.

Iron man doesn't have a wife and family like Peter, Batman doesn't believe in caring for another person (at least not in a person who can't defend themselves). Let's put it this way. Batman does what he does because it's what he was meant to do, it's what he wants to do. The same goes for Iron Man. Spiderman does what he does because he HAS to. Because he was given great power and with great power bla bla bla. See the difference? He is not doing something he wants, he is doing something out of a sheer sense of duty. How is he selfish if he goes against himself, against his own wishes?

Furthermore, I believe it is a whole lot more meaningful to be a superhero when your life is ****ty, than to be a superhero when you're rich and powerful. And BECAUSE you are a superhero, you have every right to complain and whine and do whatever you want to do that brings you a little peace and comfort. God bless you for just existing.

I'm not looking to offend anyone, but I clearly have. I know every here is a Marvel fanatic and I happen to only like Iron Man, Hulk, and Wolverine in terms of Marvel, but there's no call for you to get aggressive and offended by my views on the topic of discussion. I can see that you and a lot of other people really identify with Spiderman and feel a deep connection with the character. I just don't feel the same way towards Spiderman. I personally have always identified with Batman/Bruce Wayne and Iron Man/Tony Stark more than any other hero because of the emotional torture they go through. The subject of alcoholism is a very close to home subject for me, as I nearly went through it myself, in addition to having several members of my extended family who were alcoholics at one point or another. I identify with Batman and feel the same deep connection with him as you clearly feel with Spiderman. Maybe its a New Yorker thing, but I've never had Peter Parker issues growing up. And no, I'm not wealthy. In fact, I'm as broke as Spiderman is. But I deal with it. Sure I vent, but I simply don't identify with him. Again, I'm sorry I offended you, as you clearly have a deep connection with Spiderman that I have with Batman.

 

[LadyVader]

It's not just about identifing with a character. Anybody who has ever lost somebody close to them and felt the rage and powerlesness of the situation can identify with Spiderman, just like anybody who has suffered from alocoholism can identify with Tony Stark. It's not just about not "getting" the character... you passed a judgement on Spiderman, it being that he is selfish. You didn't just say you don't get the character, you clearly stated that you think he is selfish because he doesn't commit himself 100% to the cause like Iron Man and Batman.

That is why I probably got worked up a bit more than I should. I feel that having not had the circumstances in his life that would permit such a dedication (namely that he still has to support himself and he's just a regular guy that still needs love and intimacy in his life) but rather he has had a hard life and yet he still chooses to do what he does (we should also take in effect that fact that the media tries to always paint him as the bad guy) than that really makes him anything BUT selfish.

 

[The_Joker7895]

It's not just about identifing with a character. Anybody who has ever lost somebody close to them and felt the rage and powerlesness of the situation can identify with Spiderman, just like anybody who has suffered from alocoholism can identify with Tony Stark. It's not just about not "getting" the character... you passed a judgement on Spiderman, it being that he is selfish. You didn't just say you don't get the character, you clearly stated that you think he is selfish because he doesn't commit himself 100% to the cause like Iron Man and Batman.

That is why I probably got worked up a bit more than I should. I feel that having not had the circumstances in his life that would permit such a dedication (namely that he still has to support himself and he's just a regular guy that still needs love and intimacy in his life) but rather he has had a hard life and yet he still chooses to do what he does (we should also take in effect that fact that the media tries to always paint him as the bad guy) than that really makes him anything BUT selfish.

I guess the reason I feel he;s selfish is just that he was portrayed as so, especially in the 3rd film, and during the 2nd act of the 2nd film. But again, it may be completely different in the comics. I wouldn't know, since I don't read Spiderman. I really only read Batman and Iron Man, with the occasional Hulk and Superman.

I see what you're saying about the loss thing. And I'm no stranger to it. one of my best friends was shot a killed two years ago, for something one of his friends said to someone. I felt a great deal of rage and powerlessness when I found out that not only did the killer have friends who also happened to be my friends, but they felt he was justified in shooting Andrew. To add insult to injury, the killer was only sentenced to 20 years in jail.

However, I felt more of a Bruce Wayne/Batman type of rage than a Peter Parker/Spiderman type of rage. But what's important in the long run is what we take away form situations like that where we find ourselves identifying with superheroes. It means that regardless of whether its Batman/Bruce Wayne, Iron Man/Tony Stark, or Spiderman/Peter Parker, those characters are genuinely human. And that, to me, its what's important about those characters.

I identify with and have a deep personal connection to Batman and Iron Man, you identify with and have a deep personal connection to Spiderman.

It's all kocher.

 

[Silver Spider]

It's okay, I understand how you feel so close to Batman and I respect that. I've just always thought of Iron Man as a more laid back kind of hero, that wasn't too serious about his "crime fighting;" but I don't really read comics about him. So my thoughts on Iron Man are similar to your's on Spidey. But don't get me wrong, I still love Iron Man, just not for the same reasons you do.