The Greatest Criminal Mind of Our Time: Nicholas Hoult IS Lex Luthor

[Deck Rickard]

To be honest, I am sick of "quirky" and goofy Lex. I am a bit worried we are getting another one with Hoult, with an influencer version of Miss. Teschmacher. I really want a serious and charismatic Lex who is one step ahead of everyone and isn't cringe.

Hopefully Gunn looked at Eisenberg and was like, “Yeah, let’s do the opposite of that.”

 

[Invader Joker]

To be honest, I am sick of "quirky" and goofy Lex. I am a bit worried we are getting another one with Hoult, with an influencer version of Miss. Teschmacher. I really want a serious and charismatic Lex who is one step ahead of everyone and isn't cringe.

I want to believe he will since he hated Gene Hackman's Lex as much as he did and he kinda mocked that sort of take on Rosenbaum's podcast, but I've got zero idea if Hoult can play that and I'm just hoping he can.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I'm not sure why the idea of an extremely skilled actor being able to do something different than he typically does is such a difficult thing for people to imagine? Hoult is clearly the strongest member of this cast with the possible exception of Brosnahan. He'll be fine.

 

[flickchick85]

I'm not sure why the idea of an extremely skilled actor being able to do something different than he typically does is such a difficult thing for people to imagine? Hoult is clearly the strongest member of this cast with the possible exception of Brosnahan. He'll be fine.

Well usually whenever he ventures out of his wheelhouse of “pathetic weirdos,” or “punchable a-holes,” he kinda sucks and has the blandest screen presence imaginable (see The X-Men movies, Tolkien, Sand Castle, or even Warm Bodies). So I’ll never really agree with “extremely skilled,” nor will I ever consider him more talented than the rest of this cast as you do. His range is blatantly limited, which is why I will always consider him a poor candidate for leading man/hero roles. He would have been a TERRIBLE Superman, imo. Extremely skilled at certain types of roles, though, sure. What he is good at, he’s very good at. And Lex is close enough to that wheelhouse that I’m willing to believe he can stretch himself for this one. It’s the menace I’m looking for that I’ve never seen from him. But I have faith. I’ve always felt he was naturally creepy-looking, so that shouldn’t be too hard for him to pull off.

 

[emielaen]

The influencer label only came from leaks right? She probably uses her phone and is hyper-modern, so they used that term. Would that be an actual thing she does? Who knows. She's presumably his assistant, but Idk if her being any of that means Luthor is gonna be quirky or goofy.

And Hoult was pretty sinister and effectively manipulative in Skins like 15 years ago from what I can remember. Idk if menacing is the right word, but he wasn't a pathetic weirdo in that. He was a punchable a**hole tho, but not for reasons like he was in The Menu.

 

[Invader Joker]

Well usually whenever he ventures out of his wheelhouse of “pathetic weirdos,” or “punchable a-holes,” he kinda sucks and has the blandest screen presence imaginable (see The X-Men movies, Tolkien, Sand Castle, or even Warm Bodies). So I’ll never really agree with “extremely skilled,” nor will I ever consider him more talented than the rest of this cast as you do. His range is blatantly limited, which is why I will always consider him a poor candidate for leading man/hero roles. He would have been a TERRIBLE Superman, imo. Extremely skilled at certain types of roles, though, sure. What he is good at, he’s very good at. And Lex is close enough to that wheelhouse that I’m willing to believe he can stretch himself for this one. It’s the menace I’m looking for that I’ve never seen from him. But I have faith. I’ve always felt he was naturally creepy-looking, so that shouldn’t be too hard for him to pull off.

Yeah I don't really get this idea of Hoult as this super versatile thespian or something. I'd go as far as to say that if you look at his filmography, you can hardly say he's /ever/ had something like a "standout role" or something that proves he's worth all the hype casting directors, studio execs and agents keep giving him by putting him in contention for all these big roles since I also think he'd have absolutely sucked as Batman, even Matt Reeves Batman. (Kurt Cobain type rockstar doesn't suit him at all for Bruce Wayne, and he lacks all the menace Pattinson had as Batman)

Truth be told I'm a bit confused by his reputation especially since 90% of his filmography is also extremely, extremely trashy and in what little few movies he has that are actually worth something, in most of them he plays extremely minor characters. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the reason he ends up in contention for all these roles has less to do with him being a great actor and more to do with the fact that most of the actors in his age range absolutely suuuuck for leading men even worse.

The biggest thing that makes him hard to picture is how much of a loser he's pigeon-holed as playing though. He always plays characters that are getting beat up or humilliated by someone, even when he plays sociopaths like in The Great it goes that way. With Luthor he should be the one humilliating and dominating people that way, like in that meme scene in The Menu he should be closer to Ralph Fiennes character.

But we'll see. If he were ever to get one of these roles it might as well be Luthor, it's probably the one big role he could do something with. I do see shades of a Luthor in his role as Tony on Skins, so if he could play a grown up version of that with more sophistication and finding an intimidation factor that he hasn't had yet he could do something with that. If he plays this right it might prove he's worth all his hype. But it's definitely no walk in the park and there are ways his performance can go terribly wrong that'd be impossible for Corenswet, Brosnahan or Gisondo to get wrong for their respective roles.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I dunno, man, if Hoult gave more or less the exact performance he gives in The Great as Luthor it wouldn't be comic book Luthor but it would still probably be the highlight of the movie simply because he's an electric, hilarious performer with the right material. He hasn't been terribly compelling in leading man roles in large part because those movies have been, generally, boring and terrible. The only member of the primary cast who has done work par with Hoult at his best is Brosnahan. Which isn't even a slight really, Corenswet's career has barely started and I don't think he's had a role yet that showed him off particularly well (I know a lot of people love him in Hollywood but that honestly is part of what made me become the sad, lonely soul alone in the CBM fandom universe turned off by his casting) so he could very well have similarly great work in his future and Gisondo just isn't the same kind of actor at all.

He absolutely has had standout roles. Obviously Skins is a big one, I think he's really moving in Fury Road, True History of the Kelley Gang is the peak of his maniacal, unhinged shtick (also the best example I can give of him being threatening) and The Great is of course his career highlight. I don't think he's the greatest actor of his generation, I'm not the president of the Nicholas Hoult fan club, I just find the attitudes towards him in CBM fandom incredibly weird. The ways his performance could go "terribly wrong", imo, are a lot more exciting than seeing someone just do DCAU Luthor. I'm not that interested in "classic" anything in CBMs anymore.

 

[Invader Joker]

I dunno, man, if Hoult gave more or less the exact performance he gives in The Great as Luthor it wouldn't be comic book Luthor but it would still probably be the highlight of the movie simply because he's an electric, hilarious performer with the right material. He hasn't been terribly compelling in leading man roles in large part because those movies have been, generally, boring and terrible. The only member of the primary cast who has done work par with Hoult at his best is Brosnahan. Which isn't even a slight really, Corenswet's career has barely started and I don't think he's had a role yet that showed him off particularly well (I know a lot of people love him in Hollywood but that honestly is part of what made me become the sad, lonely soul alone in the CBM fandom universe turned off by his casting) so he could very well have similarly great work in his future and Gisondo just isn't the same kind of actor at all.

He absolutely has had standout roles. Obviously Skins is a big one, I think he's really moving in Fury Road, True History of the Kelley Gang is the peak of his maniacal, unhinged shtick (also the best example I can give of him being threatening) and The Great is of course his career highlight. I don't think he's the greatest actor of his generation, I'm not the president of the Nicholas Hoult fan club, I just find the attitudes towards him in CBM fandom incredibly weird. The ways his performance could go "terribly wrong", imo, are a lot more exciting than seeing someone just do DCAU Luthor. I'm not that interested in "classic" anything in CBMs anymore.

I find it extremely hard to find those ways in which his performance could go wrong "exciting" when the sort of manic, hilarious take on Luthor you are talking about is the exact type of take we've seen over and over in terms of cinematic portrayals of Luthor since Gene Hackman. There is absolutely nothing innovative or interesting about that sort of take for Lex Luthor; I know you hate the idea of traditionalism or giving fans what they wanna see but come on man, at this point the innovative thing for Luthor would try to actually go for something resembling the comic/DCAU take rather than yet another take on the same super manic Luthor idea we've seen since the 70s. There is absolutely nothing to be said or shown about that, which hasn't already been shown or said and it's been underwhelming every single time. And I'd be extremely hard pressed to think that Hoult of all actors would be the one to finally make it something compelling when Hackman, Spacey and Eisenberg couldn't and they're all either as good as he is or better actors than he is.

Also I'll just hard, HARD disagree on that about him taking his The Great performance and it being a good Luthor take lol It very much would not be, in fact it's that specific role that makes me kinda weary of what his take on this might be as I think that'd be a very awful take on Luthor, and I think it'd actually come across as extremely annoying in a Superman movie.

 

[STARMAN]

I'm still so happy with David and Rachel as Clark and Lois that I don't have any passionate reactions to anyone else, including Hoult as Lex.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Unpopular opinion, but I liked Hoult’s Hank McCoy better than Kelsey Grammer’s. Grammer can’t play anything but Frasier and I hated him as that character. I found Hoult’s McCoy more likable and sympathetic. I’m sure it helped that he was acting off of better scripts (at least in First Class and DOFP) but I still liked his performance better.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Wrong. Respect Kelsey.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Wrong. Respect Kelsey.

Nope. Kelsey sucks.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Smdh

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Grammer's Beast was very classic Beast, like the animated series version come to life. He had a gravitas to his voice and was charismatic and intelligent and exactly what I would want Beast to be. The best part of Last Stand.

Hoult's version seemed like a different character. Its strange because if you watch Hoult's interviews he seems more like classic Beast in real life. Deadpan humor, quick wit, etc. But his Hank never seemed to grow out of being the shy awkward geek who had the hots for Jennifer Lawrence. Fine in First Class, but classic Beast is just a better character.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

Hoult is entirely adequate as Beast but he’s not exactly given wonders to work with.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I find it extremely hard to find those ways in which his performance could go wrong "exciting" when the sort of manic, hilarious take on Luthor you are talking about is the exact type of take we've seen over and over in terms of cinematic portrayals of Luthor since Gene Hackman. There is absolutely nothing innovative or interesting about that sort of take for Lex Luthor; I know you hate the idea of traditionalism or giving fans what they wanna see but come on man, at this point the innovative thing for Luthor would try to actually go for something resembling the comic/DCAU take rather than yet another take on the same super manic Luthor idea we've seen since the 70s. There is absolutely nothing to be said or shown about that, which hasn't already been shown or said and it's been underwhelming every single time. And I'd be extremely hard pressed to think that Hoult of all actors would be the one to finally make it something compelling when Hackman, Spacey and Eisenberg couldn't and they're all either as good as he is or better actors than he is.

Also I'll just hard, HARD disagree on that about him taking his The Great performance and it being a good Luthor take lol It very much would not be, in fact it's that specific role that makes me kinda weary of what his take on this might be as I think that'd be a very awful take on Luthor, and I think it'd actually come across as extremely annoying in a Superman movie.

Well, let's give Hackman his due: the version of Luthor we want to see adapted literally did not exist at the time. He isn't bang on for Silver Age Lex either, but whether he lives up to our modern conception of Luthor as a character isn't a fair way of looking at him. Spacey is also an extremely effective updated version of that character and as much as praising him makes my skin crawl I love how he genuinely feels like Hackman's Luthor made far darker and nastier by years of simmering resentment. They both completely succeed at playing the material they're given. Whether they're accurate portrayals of post-crisis Lex is irrelevant. Eisenberg is another story but so very many things went wrong with his Lex beyond him having a manic quality that it's hard for me to imagine anything hitting that low point again 'cause there is some evil alchemy at play with Terrio's pseudointellectual word salad writing with Eisenberg presumably being given footage of the Skids from Letterkenny and then being told that this is how he ought to play Lex.

I never said it's what I personally want from Luthor. Lex is my favourite comic book villain. My ideal scenario is something similar to Azzarrello's Luthor series (the only time you will hear me praise Brian Azzarrello). However, ultimately, for me the characters themselves sort of don't matter - they're just broad figures for actors/writers to make their own. I don't think Gunn and Hoult will model it on Peter III by any means (although I really don't see the point of having James Gunn, a filmmaker with an incredibly distinct voice, do a Superman movie where he's just doing the default vanilla versions of the characters) - all I'm saying is that if they did do that then, hey, it wouldn't be Lex but it would be an extremely funny actor performing a role written by an often very funny writer!

One suspects there will be an element of that though that is going to piss some people off. But that would have been true if Gunn cast either of the Skarsgaard's as well.

 

[Alien Anal]

I can see humor coming from Lex in the way of frustration just like how some of the bosses in John Wick often are cool and calculated but then you see this look on their face as they are delivered news of a loss of some kind.

 

[Lily Adler]

Hopefully Gunn looked at Eisenberg and was like, “Yeah, let’s do the opposite of that.”

So M&Ms instead of Jolly Ranchers?

 

[GreenKToo]

In my mind, Lex should be such an azz, that if an assistant misplaced some important papers, or, spilled a drink that he or she was bringing to him, Lex wouldn't simply just fire them, He'd have them disappeared.

 

[Dr.]

...Eisenberg is another story but so very many things went wrong with his Lex beyond him having a manic quality that it's hard for me to imagine anything hitting that low point again...

I kinda liked how Eisenberg’s Lex was able to successfully manipulate (gaslight) both Superman and Batman. That, to me, represented a plausible and practical manifestation of his genius. Whereas, more traditionally, Lex’s assumed high IQ is often just a pretext to explain his invention/acquisition of advanced tech. Which, I suppose, is a thing. But that strikes me as an uninspired interpretation of "genius."

 

[DCDAVE]

I kinda liked how Eisenberg’s Lex was able to successfully manipulate (gaslight) both Superman and Batman. That, to me, represented a plausible and practical manifestation of his genius. Whereas, more traditionally, Lex’s assumed high IQ is often just a pretext to explain his invention/acquisition of advanced tech. Which, I suppose, is a thing. But that strikes me as an uninspired interpretation of "genius."

Yeah grandma’s ice tea scene was vintage Lex. One of best movie scenes in the DCEU. Made Superman look stupid.

 

[SupermansPal]

I kinda liked how Eisenberg’s Lex was able to successfully manipulate (gaslight) both Superman and Batman. That, to me, represented a plausible and practical manifestation of his genius. Whereas, more traditionally, Lex’s assumed high IQ is often just a pretext to explain his invention/acquisition of advanced tech. Which, I suppose, is a thing. But that strikes me as an uninspired interpretation of "genius."

If I'm being honest, I found that a pointlessly convoluted plan to justify the movie's premise of Batman and Superman fighting.

 

[chamber-music]

I want to believe he will since he hated Gene Hackman's Lex as much as he did and he kinda mocked that sort of take on Rosenbaum's podcast, but I've got zero idea if Hoult can play that and I'm just hoping he can.

Hoult's pretty good at playing manipulative Sociopath types. Hoult's character Tony in Skins was a manipulative scumbag in the first season and he played a Psychopathic A&R exec in the Britpop era in the film Kill your friends.

 

[Dr.]

Yeah grandma’s ice tea scene was vintage Lex. One of best movie scenes in the DCEU. Made Superman look stupid.

As I recall, there was some dialogue to the effect that the mechanism of Keefe’s wheelchair was in a lead housing. And this was why Superman didn’t/couldn’t detect the explosive within. But I don’t think this explanation was necessary; because I don’t think failure to anticipate the terrorist attack reflects on Supes’ intelligence.

Typically, villains score some preliminary victories over the hero — where the Evil Scheme™ unfolds precisely according to plan. (Otherwise, there are no stakes and no sense of a true threat.) And this, for Lex, was one of those victories.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

My biggest issue with Eisenberg was his performance. He felt like a cartoon character. Like he was in a completely different film than everyone else.

Rosey was right. Lex needs to be grounded and real, with gravitas. Not quirky and crazy.