Discussion: Guns, The Second Amendment, NRA - Part II

[Sithborg]

Guess its Treason Week in the US. So much more fun than Infrastructure Week.

Top NRA officials knew Russians were using ties to NRA to establish connection with next US President, report says - CNNPolitics

 

[Lily Adler]

Anyone else getting sick of the Sandy Hook Promise commercials?

 

[Teelie]

I avoid commercials so I haven't seen them besides the one I intentionally watched. But I understand why they are doing it; because no one in government is going to do anything.

 

[Lighthouse]

NRA Leaders: NRATV Was 'Distasteful and Racist'

Officials for the NRA said the channel “strayed from the Second Amendment to themes which some NRA leaders found distasteful and racist.”

The NRA pointed specifically to a segment on Dana Loesch’s program on NRATV, which featured a picture of Thomas the Tank Engine photoshopped to wear a Ku Klux Klan hood because the children’s television show had introduced a new character.

 

[Teelie]

Teen shot in back, killed by backseat passenger while driving, police say

MARION, Ind. - A backseat passenger has been charged in the shooting death of an Indiana teenager who was driving when the fatal shot was fired, authorities said.

Annalysa McMillan, 19, was driving her car Tuesday about 70 miles north of Indianapolis when a gun discharged in the passenger seat behind her and struck her, CNN reported, citing a Marion Police Department statement.

Austin Smith, 22, was sitting behind McMillan with the AR-15 style rifle when it discharged, WXIN reported.

According to the Grant County Jail website, Smith is being held on bond on charges of reckless homicide and criminal recklessness while armed with a deadly weapon.

The shooting, which caused a minor traffic collision with another vehicle, has been ruled a homicide, CNN reported.

 

[terry78]

What, it went off on accident or something? So they say.

 

[Holiday]

Church shooting: Armed parishioners carried guns because of this Texas law - CNN

 

[terry78]

There is just something very Robert Rodriguez about a man of the cloth packing.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Gotta love how the Right-Wingers don't care that people are dead, they're practically in the streets celebrating this "proof" that the all-mighty "good guy with a gun" is their one true savior.

 

[souloffire]

Gotta love how the Right-Wingers don't care that people are dead, they're practically in the streets celebrating this "proof" that the all-mighty "good guy with a gun" is their one true savior.

Take a look at Chicago, apparently Left Wingers don’t give a s$&t either.

 

[Teelie]

Gotta love how the Right-Wingers don't care that people are dead, they're practically in the streets celebrating this "proof" that the all-mighty "good guy with a gun" is their one true savior.

Or all the caveats that go with this situation. Namely, the man who shot and killed him was a reserve deputy, the shooter was already being watched by that deputy and others who felt he was suspicious and that one incident in a thousand does not mean it is a viable solution to have everyone packing. It is fortunate no one else pulled a gun and shot the reserve deputy who shot the other guy thinking he was also involved in the shooting. It could quickly have become a lot of casualties if someone poorly trained started firing too. Or if someone else pulled a gun, the deputy did not shoot them as well.

All those guns, who do you know who the good guy with the gun is when they are all pointing them at other guys with guns?

 

[Holiday]

This happened in a church where everyone knows each other, not on the street somewhere. Several people did pull guns here, not just the guard. Wouldn't make sense that someone would get confused and shoot the volunteer security guard who they've know for x amount of time that they have been in church together.

 

[Teelie]

Because everyone knows that people who go on mass shooting sprees are always the obvious types, with the beady eyes, shifty looks and crazed. Not the ones no one ever suspects. Like there aren't countless "that isn't the person I knew" responses when someone commits a murder or goes on a shooting spree. Nope. never.

 

[Holiday]

We're talking about an attack on a place of worship, typically the person commiting said attack is going to be someone unfamiliar to that place. Even if that wasn't the case, if a person is sitting in church armed and hears a gun shot and looks over to see the designated security return fire they'll probably figure out what's going on pretty quickly. For all your "what if?" scenarios you ignore the one where the only person who has a gun is someone there to do harm.

It's obvious you haven't seen the video of this incident but are commenting on it anyway.

 

[Teelie]

I don't need to see the video to know a one in a thousand instance is going to happen more than one in a thousand times. Every other time this has happened it did not make a difference there were a bunch of poorly trained people carrying guns.

There are more cases of someone pulling a gun and killing a lot of people before other people pull their gun and kill the guy, and cases where the "good guy with a gun" gets shot and killed by mistake because reality does not make the "bad guy with a gun" look different than the "good guy with a gun."

Do I have to bring up Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr.? Or are we shifting goal posts again to this is just in churches? Because mass shooting occur in places besides churches. Like schools. Where a lot of kids are that probably should not be filled with people packing guns.

 

[Teelie]

I also forgot to point out this guy was known to the church. He had been there many times and had "roots in the community" according to the police. So had he not worn a blatantly poor disguise they likely would not have thought twice about him being there.

 

[Holiday]

I also forgot to point out this guy was known to the church. He had been there many times and had "roots in the community" according to the police. So had he not worn a blatantly poor disguise they likely would not have thought twice about him being there.

This person was angry with some members of the church who had refused to give him money (which is why he attacked the church) so I really doubt they would have ignored his presence.

 

[Holiday]

I don't need to see the video to know a one in a thousand instance is going to happen more than one in a thousand times. Every other time this has happened it did not make a difference there were a bunch of poorly trained people carrying guns.

There are more cases of someone pulling a gun and killing a lot of people before other people pull their gun and kill the guy, and cases where the "good guy with a gun" gets shot and killed by mistake because reality does not make the "bad guy with a gun" look different than the "good guy with a gun."

Do I have to bring up Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr.? Or are we shifting goal posts again to this is just in churches? Because mass shooting occur in places besides churches. Like schools. Where a lot of kids are that probably should not be filled with people packing guns.

Please link all these cases you referring to of a mass shooting where a someone poorly trained with a gun failed to stop it or where a "good guy with a gun" was shot instead of the original shooter.

You cite EJ Bradford but that's not a good example. Erron Brown shot EJ Bradford's friend who attacked him to begin with. Bradford pulls his weapon "in defense" but he's not under any threat as Brown is running away. Had Bradford shot Brown he could have faced charges himself.

As for, "shifting goal posts", what started this discussion was a post on this incident at a church which you ignored the context of to ponder how anyone there who pulled a gun would know who the "bad guy" was. Volunteer security is probably not "the bad guy".

 

[BoredGuy]

#GunsAreForP*ssies

 

[Sithborg]

Given whats going on in Virginia, I hope no one gets hurt.

 

[Teelie]

Some people value guns over the lives of other people. They want to have a gun for no other reason than to have a gun, people's safety be damned.

 

[Mike5575]

Some people value guns over the lives of other people. They want to have a gun for no other reason than to have a gun, people's safety be damned.

Self-defense and the defense of others is the primary reason for people owning guns in this country. They care very much about protecting themselves and others against acts of violence.

Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[Holiday]

"It may be true that someone in the congregation had his own gun and killed the person who murdered two other people, but it's the job of law enforcement to have guns and to decide when to shoot," the former mayor said earlier this month, adding, "You just do not want the average citizen carrying a gun in a crowded place."

Jack Wilson actually was at one time law enforcement but once someone becomes a private citizen I suppose they magically lose the ability to recognize a threat?

Also, I think Bloomberg's supporters will disagree on law enforcement being the ones knowing when to shoot.

 

[Sithborg]

Then they wouldn't be his supporters. Bloomberg has some very concerning views on law enforcement and criminal justice from the average Democrat. Frankly, only Delaney is more right than Bloomberg. There is a reason he has less minority support than Buttigieg.

 

[Bobber]

Self-defense and the defense of others is the primary reason for people owning guns in this country. They care very much about protecting themselves and others against acts of violence.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Because it's nonsense.