The Health Thread

1. Totally untrue. I'd make that argument about AIDS, but def not cancer. That disease is so tricky, we really are trying our hardest to rid people of cancer when they're diagnosed. Problem is, when it gets into the blood and metastasizes, it's usually game over. Not to mention if the cancer is located somewhere inoperable.

2. Any examples of these foods? I can't think of any foods that will rid a person of cancer.
1) You're probably correct about #1. But it wouldn't surprise me if it was true either, at least in some cancer. But again, I do doubt it since you hardly ever hear about it anywhere. If it was true, I'm certain there would be many people takling about it alot more (think all the controversy surrounding 911 - if this was true with cancer, then wow!).

2) As for the foods, I'm not certain but there was an infomercial about it and a book titled (think it's called) THE CURES THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT. However, this is all controversial and the author has lost his medical license, I believe. Then again, if what he's saying is true, then of course he's going to lose his license.
 
I mean, I hear the "doctors can cure a lot more than they do, but are working with pharmaceutical and insurance companies to stay in business" conspiracy theory often. I just don't think that's the case with cancer.

Just the title of that book sounds like BS haha. Cancer is pretty much inevitable for any organism that lives long enough.
 
I mean, I hear the "doctors can cure a lot more than they do, but are working with pharmaceutical and insurance companies to stay in business" conspiracy theory often. I just don't think that's the case with cancer.

Just the title of that book sounds like BS haha. Cancer is pretty much inevitable for any organism that lives long enough.
On that book, you can try this at wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Cures_"They"_Don't_Want_You?to_Know_About

It seems interesting but also quite possibly not accurate.
 
I've been told a couple of things in reference to cancer:

1) Treatement can burn/kill cancer so cancer is curable but those involved in cancer, from the doctors to researchers, would then lose money from such things as fundraisers, be out of jobs or reassigned to a perhaps lesser paying job, etc... so the 'cure' is simply hidden. I doubt this is true, at least for all and most cancers but still, it's something I've come across.

2) I've also been told that if certain foods were consumed, most/all cancers would go away on their own? Any truth to this, at least for some cancers?

Unrelated subject:

Is it true, too, that depending on where you live will mean what fruit you should eat. So, if an appple is native to my location, that would be good when an orange, which is not native to my location, is not good (or at lkeast not as good as it is to somebody who os from an area that grows oranges. Any truth or just a myth?

Thanks again, Anita!
Wow, I'm actually a little offended by those statements. It's like conspiracy theorists are accusing people like me of faking the seriousness of cancer just so we can make a quick buck. We don't make a lot of money at this BTW, since I work in academic research and don't profit from any drug development. Your typical computer programmer makes more money than my boss, and he's already got an NIH grant.

It's not your fault though, since you're here being open-minded and asking for information. It's just that it's downright frustrating that so many people are being cynical and spreading misinformation that could really harm others. I mean, being cynical about 9/11 is one thing, but being cynical about cancer treatments? Completely another, because that information could affect you or a family member or even your child who has no say in their medical treatments. Not to mention that if enough people speak up, they could affect how research is funded and then treatments could be delayed in their development.

The thing that makes cancer so hard to figure out is that it's not one disease, it's almost a symptom. A gazillion things (really, a gazillion) could cause one of your cells to go nuts and start dividing like mad. There are many, many genes where if something's deleted or copied over wrong or switched (see how many options there are?), could turn this dividing mode on. Once it starts, it's hard to stop because obviously these cells do not stop dividing and once they get into your bloodstream, they can hide anywhere and you can't just blast the body haphazardly with radiation to try and get them. What kills cancer cells also kills normal cells, which is why chemotherapy is such a b**ch and makes you sick. It's like trying to kill replicants in Blade Runner with nuclear bombs instead of Deckard's neat gun. :funny:

Doctors have been focusing more on treatments that target just these cancer cells and leave normal cells alone, but it's hard because each individual cancer case is basically different. Each case of cancer started with one cell with any myriad of mutations. There are definitely mutations that can be common between the kinds of cancer we hear about, but I wouldn't be surprised (since I'm not sure if anyone's definitively proved this) if all cancer cases were individually different. Like snowflakes. :oldrazz:

There are definitely certain things you can do to prevent the probability you will get cancer, but even if you do everything right, there's no telling whether one of your cells will betray you in a freak mutation anyway.

What helps most is preventing inflammation, because inflammation induces rapid cell turnover as well as the "help we're dying!" mode that I will explain below Spoon's quote. The more your cells divide, the higher the chance one of these divisions will produce an error that causes the runaway division that causes cancer. (Even scientists in the early 1900's noticed that tumors seemed to occur more in areas where there had been chronic inflammation, so we've known this for a long time.) This means avoiding alcohol and smoking, because they kill cells. I know there have been lots of studies about how wine is good for you and such, so the body can take a little beating from alcohol and be okay. Just don't go crazy with it. :funny:

As for the food thing, who knows. There are definitely things about food that we don't know about, especially fruits and veggies that are rich in antioxidants and prevent DNA damage from affecting cells. The thing is that each person's metabolism is different, not to mention their cancer, so what totally works for one person may not work for another. So I definitely wouldn't tell someone with cancer to stop all of their treatments and start eating blueberries.

But a diet rich in these foods certainly doesn't hurt you either, so eat up! :yay:

As for the local fruit thing, it's better for you and environment to eat fruit local to your area. It's had less time for its nutrients to degrade and takes less fuel getting it to you. So that's basically win/win.

I mean, I hear the "doctors can cure a lot more than they do, but are working with pharmaceutical and insurance companies to stay in business" conspiracy theory often. I just don't think that's the case with cancer.

Just the title of that book sounds like BS haha. Cancer is pretty much inevitable for any organism that lives long enough.
I totally believe that pharmaceutical companies and doctors are catering more toward the quick fix when all the patient has a symptom but nothing truly wrong with them. I mean, my doctor preliminarily diagnosed me with Irritable Bowel Syndrome when I told him I felt sick after eating, but that's just something doctors tell patients when there's a symptom but no major physical signs of anything actually wrong, you know what I mean? A lot of these symptoms can be alleviated with stress-management. The body will do a lot of weird things that you don't like when you're stressed and anxious. But believe me, cancer is very real. The tumor is not going to go away if you do yoga.

As for your second thought: Yup, pretty much. Notice how most people who get cancer are 50 and older? Not a coincidence.

I actually attended a seminar about cancer and aging, where the scientist (pretty much the most renowned in our field) argued that the things that keep us cancer-free when we're young works against us when we get old. What makes this hard to study is that it involves so many systems. My particular lab focuses just on DNA, but this scientist has had to expand her knowledge to stuff happening inside and outside the cells, and now has to study the immune system because it involves that!

It's a little complicated for the layperson, but here goes: (ooh, you've got me started here, this is a slippery slope!)

Cancer is basically caused by the fact we're alive and we're multicellular and need to live for a relatively long time. Multicellular organisms need to divide their cells eventually, because individual cells can be harmed and you need a way to replace them, right? Not to mention that cells just get old and start to accumulate relatively harmless mutations through their multiple cell divisions and the body would rather be sure that these cells won't get cancerous in the next go round. So when a cell gets old, it can stop dividing. (The other possibility is programmed suicide.) It doesn't die, it keeps doing whatever job it's doing, but it doesn't make copies of itself. When it does that, it produces a bunch of chemicals that tells the body that it's stopped dividing, so a few stem cells should come over and make sure there are still some dividing cells over there so you don't end up with a shortage of tissue in a particular area. With enough of these nondividing cells, immune cells will come in and take them out eventually to be replaced with the new stem cells.

This works fine when it's just one cell doing the signal and the body can handle it, which is why childhood cancers are relatively rare. But when there are many of these nondividing cells around (as it would be in an older person), massive amounts of signal can actually hide cells from the immune system and a cancerous can get away under the radar.

It's actually a very cool concept since it's pretty big-picture compared to what we're doing, but it's also harder because there are so many things (that we don't know about) happening at one time. :funny:

Speaking of which, I don't believe in a cancer "cure." We researchers all sorta go :whatever: when charities try to get money by touting that we're so close to a "cure." (I understand why they do it, but it's still amusing.) We're not close to a cure, because cancer is so complex and it's a symptom anyway so how can you "cure" a symptom, let alone develop a cure for any gazillion genetic possibilities of what the cancer might be caused by?
 
On that book, you can try this at wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Cures_"They"_Don't_Want_You?to_Know_About

It seems interesting but also quite possibly not accurate.
The link is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Cures_"They"_Don't_Want_You_to_Know_About

OMG Kevin Trudeau is such a hack. :cmad: All he is is a good talker. I watched part of an informercial of his once and was :whatever: the entire time. It's so fake.

He's got a real estate book and a financial book out too. Do you trust that he can be an expert in health AND real estate AND finances all at the same time? :oldrazz:

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's my opinion on Kevin Trudeau. :funny: He's got a lot of legal issues at this time as well, IIRC. Woo!
 
I should have known the book was by Trudeau. A year ago, the Fitness Thread pretty much waged war on the guy(I'm convinced Shadowboxing) would have hit him if he got the chance lol).
 
As for preventative measures for cancer, the most pro-active thing I do is to make sure I get a healthy dose of anti-oxidants daily. I've fallen in love with cranberry juice and I'd really like to find a way to squeeze blueberries into my diet.

I unfortunately live in a state with extremely high cancer risks(our drinking water is practically radioactive :()
 
Blueberries are great to put in cereal, granola, and yogurt. Especially Greek yogurt!
 
Blueberries are great to put in cereal, granola, and yogurt. Especially Greek yogurt!

I'll try the granola :o
:lmao: You guys are hilarious.

BTW ATP, I tried Fage yogurt yesterday and the sourness really surprised me. Mostly because when I tried making my own yogurt sometime last year, I wasn't sure if I had totally effed it up because it was very sour. Turns out I was probably doing it right! :yay:

But then I might have stirred it too much because the sourness went away after I had eaten a few spoonfuls. :o
 
Did you eat the plain one? That's the only kind I find "sour"...if I eat plain I have to stir in honey or I can't eat it.
 
Did you eat the plain one? That's the only kind I find "sour"...if I eat plain I have to stir in honey or I can't eat it.
The flavor comes in a separate compartment, I've never seen it blended. I tried a spoonful without honey and it was like woooo! But once I added the honey it was pretty good.

If I haven't gotten around to making my own yogurt by next week or something (cause Fage yogurt is expensive..) I'll get the big container of plain yogurt and add my own honey. :yay: I get it from the farmer's market and they have honey from different kinds of flowers from different areas and it's sooo gooood. :awesome:
 
Fage is definitely the most expensive, and you also don't get as large of a serving. It is yummy, though. Still, Chobani FTW!
 
Wow, I'm actually a little offended by those statements. It's like conspiracy theorists are accusing people like me of faking the seriousness of cancer just so we can make a quick buck. We don't make a lot of money at this BTW, since I work in academic research and don't profit from any drug development. Your typical computer programmer makes more money than my boss, and he's already got an NIH grant.

It's not your fault though, since you're here being open-minded and asking for information. It's just that it's downright frustrating that so many people are being cynical and spreading misinformation that could really harm others. I mean, being cynical about 9/11 is one thing, but being cynical about cancer treatments? Completely another, because that information could affect you or a family member or even your child who has no say in their medical treatments. Not to mention that if enough people speak up, they could affect how research is funded and then treatments could be delayed in their development.

The thing that makes cancer so hard to figure out is that it's not one disease, it's almost a symptom. A gazillion things (really, a gazillion) could cause one of your cells to go nuts and start dividing like mad. There are many, many genes where if something's deleted or copied over wrong or switched (see how many options there are?), could turn this dividing mode on. Once it starts, it's hard to stop because obviously these cells do not stop dividing and once they get into your bloodstream, they can hide anywhere and you can't just blast the body haphazardly with radiation to try and get them. What kills cancer cells also kills normal cells, which is why chemotherapy is such a b**ch and makes you sick. It's like trying to kill replicants in Blade Runner with nuclear bombs instead of Deckard's neat gun. :funny:

Doctors have been focusing more on treatments that target just these cancer cells and leave normal cells alone, but it's hard because each individual cancer case is basically different. Each case of cancer started with one cell with any myriad of mutations. There are definitely mutations that can be common between the kinds of cancer we hear about, but I wouldn't be surprised (since I'm not sure if anyone's definitively proved this) if all cancer cases were individually different. Like snowflakes. :oldrazz:

There are definitely certain things you can do to prevent the probability you will get cancer, but even if you do everything right, there's no telling whether one of your cells will betray you in a freak mutation anyway.

What helps most is preventing inflammation, because inflammation induces rapid cell turnover as well as the "help we're dying!" mode that I will explain below Spoon's quote. The more your cells divide, the higher the chance one of these divisions will produce an error that causes the runaway division that causes cancer. (Even scientists in the early 1900's noticed that tumors seemed to occur more in areas where there had been chronic inflammation, so we've known this for a long time.) This means avoiding alcohol and smoking, because they kill cells. I know there have been lots of studies about how wine is good for you and such, so the body can take a little beating from alcohol and be okay. Just don't go crazy with it. :funny:

As for the food thing, who knows. There are definitely things about food that we don't know about, especially fruits and veggies that are rich in antioxidants and prevent DNA damage from affecting cells. The thing is that each person's metabolism is different, not to mention their cancer, so what totally works for one person may not work for another. So I definitely wouldn't tell someone with cancer to stop all of their treatments and start eating blueberries.

But a diet rich in these foods certainly doesn't hurt you either, so eat up! :yay:

As for the local fruit thing, it's better for you and environment to eat fruit local to your area. It's had less time for its nutrients to degrade and takes less fuel getting it to you. So that's basically win/win.


I totally believe that pharmaceutical companies and doctors are catering more toward the quick fix when all the patient has a symptom but nothing truly wrong with them. I mean, my doctor preliminarily diagnosed me with Irritable Bowel Syndrome when I told him I felt sick after eating, but that's just something doctors tell patients when there's a symptom but no major physical signs of anything actually wrong, you know what I mean? A lot of these symptoms can be alleviated with stress-management. The body will do a lot of weird things that you don't like when you're stressed and anxious. But believe me, cancer is very real. The tumor is not going to go away if you do yoga.

As for your second thought: Yup, pretty much. Notice how most people who get cancer are 50 and older? Not a coincidence.

I actually attended a seminar about cancer and aging, where the scientist (pretty much the most renowned in our field) argued that the things that keep us cancer-free when we're young works against us when we get old. What makes this hard to study is that it involves so many systems. My particular lab focuses just on DNA, but this scientist has had to expand her knowledge to stuff happening inside and outside the cells, and now has to study the immune system because it involves that!

It's a little complicated for the layperson, but here goes: (ooh, you've got me started here, this is a slippery slope!)

Cancer is basically caused by the fact we're alive and we're multicellular and need to live for a relatively long time. Multicellular organisms need to divide their cells eventually, because individual cells can be harmed and you need a way to replace them, right? Not to mention that cells just get old and start to accumulate relatively harmless mutations through their multiple cell divisions and the body would rather be sure that these cells won't get cancerous in the next go round. So when a cell gets old, it can stop dividing. (The other possibility is programmed suicide.) It doesn't die, it keeps doing whatever job it's doing, but it doesn't make copies of itself. When it does that, it produces a bunch of chemicals that tells the body that it's stopped dividing, so a few stem cells should come over and make sure there are still some dividing cells over there so you don't end up with a shortage of tissue in a particular area. With enough of these nondividing cells, immune cells will come in and take them out eventually to be replaced with the new stem cells.

This works fine when it's just one cell doing the signal and the body can handle it, which is why childhood cancers are relatively rare. But when there are many of these nondividing cells around (as it would be in an older person), massive amounts of signal can actually hide cells from the immune system and a cancerous can get away under the radar.

It's actually a very cool concept since it's pretty big-picture compared to what we're doing, but it's also harder because there are so many things (that we don't know about) happening at one time. :funny:

Speaking of which, I don't believe in a cancer "cure." We researchers all sorta go :whatever: when charities try to get money by touting that we're so close to a "cure." (I understand why they do it, but it's still amusing.) We're not close to a cure, because cancer is so complex and it's a symptom anyway so how can you "cure" a symptom, let alone develop a cure for any gazillion genetic possibilities of what the cancer might be caused by?
Thanks a ton for the info in all of this. I learned alot on cancer. I appreciate the time you took to write this all. :yay:

When I asked those questions about the possible cures and are all these cancer doctors and researchers really hiding the cure so they can get money, I only asked because, well, I've read and/or seen this pop up from time to time and I was curious on what you would think about it. There was absolutely no accusation but curiosity from your side which I never really found anywhere. Now I know! :yay:.................Or do I? :csad:.....Just kidding! :woot:

Another important question on cancer and it's preventive measures, one I've often pondered upon many times. Sunscreen.... is it really safe? And what's safer, sunscreen or sunblock?
 
I have heard a lot of debate regarding sunscreen, as well. However, I still wear a moisturizer containing SPF 30 every day. I feel that it is better to protect myself from UVA and UVB rays than not. I do think it is important to research a product before you buy it, however. There are lots of sites where you can look up whether the ingredients list contains anything dangerous. I'm curious to hear someone's thoughts who has really done any research on this.

As for sunscreen vs sunblock, I've heard some say that sunblock is an outdated term, but in general: http://www.lifespan.org/services/dermatology/articles/skincare/sunscreen1.htm
 
On Canada's Weather Network tv station (think it was there), they had said that sunblock was 'usually' better. I'm curious on usually and if it really is or not. It's interesting that it may not be, though, from what you're saying.

Back to googling.....
 
Thanks a ton for the info in all of this. I learned alot on cancer. I appreciate the time you took to write this all. :yay:
Glad you learned something! And I had fun trying to explain it, it's one of the rare times I can feel smart about cancer because at work I'd rather not read papers about this-and-that obscure protein that's supposedly really important for cancer....along with 38479103875 other ones. That's what the grad students do, and I manage to keep up pretty okay during the talks despite my lack of detailed knowledge. :oldrazz: I'm definitely more of a big picture kind of person.

On Canada's Weather Network tv station (think it was there), they had said that sunblock was 'usually' better. I'm curious on usually and if it really is or not. It's interesting that it may not be, though, from what you're saying.

Back to googling.....
Well, sunblock uses chemicals that sit on your skin and "block" the rays that way, while the chemicals in sunscreen are absorbed into your skin and filter out the bad rays.

I think the worries about it are a little overblown. Whatever harm that sunscreen gives us (and anything absorbed through the skin really isn't that bad because the skin is a good barrier of things in general) is miniscule to the harm that a bad sunburn can do. You just have to weigh your options and come to your own conclusions depending on your own lifestyle.
 
The main thing I've heard is that "sunblock" is a very misleading term, because nothing will truly BLOCK the rays completely, so a lot of people aren't using the term anymore.
 
I'm a little late, but I'm going to voice a short opinion stating that from everything I know about various cancers, it doesn't seem like most of them are actually curable, only possibly preventable. That said, I've heard of lots of research being done on sharks and other species that are known to be immune or resistant to getting cancer.
 
I'm a little late, but I'm going to voice a short opinion stating that from everything I know about various cancers, it doesn't seem like most of them are actually curable, only possibly preventable. That said, I've heard of lots of research being done on sharks and other species that are known to be immune or resistant to getting cancer.
That's interesting because if they can pick up anything from sharks, they may be able to apply it to man. Let's hope so!
 
Glad you learned something! And I had fun trying to explain it, it's one of the rare times I can feel smart about cancer because at work I'd rather not read papers about this-and-that obscure protein that's supposedly really important for cancer....along with 38479103875 other ones. That's what the grad students do, and I manage to keep up pretty okay during the talks despite my lack of detailed knowledge. :oldrazz: I'm definitely more of a big picture kind of person.


Well, sunblock uses chemicals that sit on your skin and "block" the rays that way, while the chemicals in sunscreen are absorbed into your skin and filter out the bad rays.

I think the worries about it are a little overblown. Whatever harm that sunscreen gives us (and anything absorbed through the skin really isn't that bad because the skin is a good barrier of things in general) is miniscule to the harm that a bad sunburn can do. You just have to weigh your options and come to your own conclusions depending on your own lifestyle.
Sounds like sunscreen might be the better of the two.
 
I'm a little late, but I'm going to voice a short opinion stating that from everything I know about various cancers, it doesn't seem like most of them are actually curable, only possibly preventable. That said, I've heard of lots of research being done on sharks and other species that are known to be immune or resistant to getting cancer.
I'm not sure if this is the case with sharks, but for many animals, they're not likely to get cancer because they naturally live pretty long. The stuff I talked about with cancer and aging....we've never lived as long as we have now. Back when we were apes, we only needed to live long enough to breed, which meant life expectancies were probably around mid-40s at the very most. (At least that's reportedly the life expectancy of wild chimps.) So the anti-cancer properties we've developed only worked until we were 50, and then it starts to work against us.

Animals like turtles (and sharks) I think can breed as long as they live, and they grow very slowly to begin with, so it's better for them to retain their anti-cancer properties because the existence of the species depends on it. There's talk that both of those animals can live to 100 years naturally in the wild.

If we're going to take whatever sharks have and put it in ourselves, it'll probably no less drastic than gene therapy, because we're talking about innate properties that have existed in the animals for millions of years.
 
One final thing on sunscreen, does it actually help repair the skin (from things like aging)?
 
One final thing on sunscreen, does it actually help repair the skin (from things like aging)?
Well it doesn't repair the skin by itself, your skin cells have to do it. But it does help because it prevents additional damage when they're trying to do their thing. Like, if you keep on getting sunburnt, your skin cells have even MORE to do while trying to repair old damage. :funny:

I don't think using sunscreen will reverse damage, it just helps prevent additional damage so your body can do the repairs. The physical signs of aging is also mostly genetic, as well as an inflammation thing. If you keep your skin moisturized and unsunburnt and don't drink or smoke too much, that's pretty much the most you can do. Consuming antioxidant-rich foods help too.
 

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