"The Invisible Hand" Discussion Thread

[ReggieWhiteJr]

LOVE this episode! Rhino fight was awesome and I liked how he stomped his foot down to make the building shake! Has he ever done that in the comics? I'm a HUGE Spidey fan with a nice collection of Amazing Spidey comics, but I can't recall him ever doing this. I always love when Spidey uses his brain to defeat a villain and this was no exception. Great stuff. Oh and props to Clancy Brown for doing one of my fav Spidey villains justice.

Man, Tombstone wrecked Spidey's stuff but GOOD! That scene was pure . I like how Spidey really wasn't discouraged by how things ended here at all. His whole attitude after it was that of "Bring it."

MJ, MJ, MJ! She finally appeared and I was so happy they did the classic last panel of ASM #42. Peter's mouth was open when he saw her and everything. t:

 

[SpideyForPrez]

Is this episode up on youtube yet? I missed the first two minutes.

And yeah like everyone else: This was a great episode and I have high hopes for the show and so on.

I like how this show thinks of new ways for spidey to beat the villain. I.E. Rhino getting to hot, Vulture's wing in the helicopter blade etc.

And the whole expanding story. When I heard Rhino say, "Mr. Lincoln." I started digging through my spidey memory file. And was like, "Lonnie Lincoln...who's that?" Then I saw Tombstone and got all excited. He was handled very well t:

 

[Venomfan]

okay did anyone else hate that Tombstone could beat spidey up like that? Tombstone is both slower and weaker than Spider-man but he owned him. Spidey had just beaten the Rhino for crying out loud and then this puss lays him out like he's nothing

 

[Webhead2006]

Well actually we dont know the backstory/powers this tombstone has.

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

okay did anyone else hate that Tombstone could beat spidey up like that? Tombstone is both slower and weaker than Spider-man but he owned him. Spidey had just beaten the Rhino for crying out loud and then this puss lays him out like he's nothing

Tombstone had both the element of surprise (Spidey did not expect that) and skill. Spidey is still relatively inexperienced.

It's like Bruce Lee and Mike Tyson. Tyson is probably much stronger and tougher than Lee but Lee would still trounce him.

And he didn't beat Spidey up... what is it with you people and these extreme absolute statements. Spidey was ready to get up and fight before Tombstone called the cops in there.

God... ever heard of circumstances?

 

[SpideyForPrez]

okay did anyone else hate that Tombstone could beat spidey up like that? Tombstone is both slower and weaker than Spider-man but he owned him. Spidey had just beaten the Rhino for crying out loud and then this puss lays him out like he's nothing

Wha? Tombstone has always been really strong. Slow maybe, but this is a "different" Tombstone. Spidey always gets beat up first, it's part of his character. He didn't really beat Rhino persay, he just wore him out. Tombstone is by no means a "puss" I thought that scene was really cool. This show has great fights.

 

[ReggieWhiteJr]

okay did anyone else hate that Tombstone could beat spidey up like that? Tombstone is both slower and weaker than Spider-man but he owned him. Spidey had just beaten the Rhino for crying out loud and then this puss lays him out like he's nothing

Actually Tombstone is not only a well-adept fighter, but he also has super strength and his body can stand up to quiet a bit of abuse, quite possibly on par with Spider-Man. Tombstone is no pushover.

 

[Venomfan]

yes he has super strength, but not as much as Spidey, and he did absolutely own him, doesnt matter if Spidey got up for more, and this is not anything like Bruce Lee vs Mike Tyson, since spidey is both faster and stronger than tombstone

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

yes he has super strength, but not as much as Spidey, and he did absolutely own him, doesnt matter if Spidey got up for more, and this is not anything like Bruce Lee vs Mike Tyson, since spidey is both faster and stronger than tombstone

Yeah, and if you watch "Gargoyles", Goliath is stronger and faster than Macbeth, but Macbeth is skilled enough to make it an even fight.

 

[SpideyForPrez]

^Pfft, no wonder your avatar is Bono.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Wha? Tombstone has always been really strong. Slow maybe, but this is a "different" Tombstone. Spidey always gets beat up first, it's part of his character. He didn't really beat Rhino persay, he just wore him out. Tombstone is by no means a "puss" I thought that scene was really cool. This show has great fights.

I completely agree! Tombstone is very strong and I really think he's underrated.

 

[Venomfan]

well i just looked Tombstone up, and apparently he's gained a powerboost and is actually now stronger than Spidey, so my bad i was wrong. He used to be weaker than back in the day because i remember wanting to find out about that way back when. I like him better stronger than, since it actually now makes sense that he could stand up to Spidye

 

[Sarcastic Fan]

well i just looked Tombstone up, and apparently he's gained a powerboost and is actually now stronger than Spidey, so my bad i was wrong. He used to be weaker than back in the day because i remember wanting to find out about that way back when. I like him better stronger than, since it actually now makes sense that he could stand up to Spidye

You're forgiven

 

[SpideyForPrez]

^Tombstone is a great Spidey Villain. I'm happy to see that he'll have an important role in this show. Thumbs up!

 

[Venomfan]

ya he's pretty cool, but man he was friggen fast. he needs to visit a dentist big time tho

 

[SpideyForPrez]

I liked his voice, same guy that did Joker on "Tha Batman" he's good.

Tombstone isn't suppose to be The Big Man is he? I read that in Dread's review but I took things that Spidey is just being thrown off the real Big Man's trail. They had the same voice but if you read marvel.com's Big Man profile it mentions that he used a voice modifier.

I think it's too early to say, I think the writers may want to throw old fans off. Which would be cool IMO.

 

[ReggieWhiteJr]

At first I thought Tombstone could be the big man but after reading others thoughts on the Toon Zone forums, I'm not so sure. He never came out and said he was the Big Man and Foswell could have been trying to throw Peter off the trail with what he said.

 

[stillanerd]

Foswell could be there for another reason; red herring. If Wiesman & Co. always planned to do this with Tombstone, then having Foswell there is a perfect way to deflect the old-school fans who know everything already into being surprised. Of course, when the "new idea" sucks, it is bad, but to me this doesn't suck. This is the chance to be the best version of Tombstone ever.

Of course Foswell could still be involved, for all we know.

I have to agree with this as well. The show is playing upon old school Spidey conventions and knows that there are those in the audience who believe that everything is going to go "exactly as planned" as it were, only to be hit with a couple of surprises. Having Tombstone actually be the Big Man instead of Foswell--and everybody watching believing it to be Foswell--could be a perfect example of this. Consider how much they played up the angle that we never actually saw the Big Man's face, only heard his voice, from day one and then we see that the voice matches that of Tombstone. Building up the "mystery villain" to be revealed as one character only to reveal it's a totally different character would be somewhat redundant, I think. Plus, speaking of red herrings, notice that Boswell's hair IS actually a redhead. Inside joke perhaps? Personally, I would much rather have Tombstone in the role than Foswell. Although, I imagine that Foswell could be in cahoots with Tombstone, acting as his mole inside the Daily Bugle. After all, Foswell was only the Big Man in one issue of the original comics, and afterwards was a crime reporter who, when the Kingpin came on the scene, sought to try and unseat the Kingpin himself. Perhaps Foswell could be attempting something along those lines by working for Tombstone in the cartoon series.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I have to agree with this as well. The show is playing upon old school Spidey conventions and knows that there are those in the audience who believe that everything is going to go "exactly as planned" as it were, only to be hit with a couple of surprises. Having Tombstone actually be the Big Man instead of Foswell--and everybody watching believing it to be Foswell--could be a perfect example of this. Consider how much they played up the angle that we never actually saw the Big Man's face, only heard his voice, from day one and then we see that the voice matches that of Tombstone. Building up the "mystery villain" to be revealed as one character only to reveal it's a totally different character would be somewhat redundant, I think. Plus, speaking of red herrings, notice that Boswell's hair IS actually a redhead. Inside joke perhaps? Personally, I would much rather have Tombstone in the role than Foswell. Although, I imagine that Foswell could be in cahoots with Tombstone, acting as his mole inside the Daily Bugle. After all, Foswell was only the Big Man in one issue of the original comics, and afterwards was a crime reporter who, when the Kingpin came on the scene, sought to try and unseat the Kingpin himself. Perhaps Foswell could be attempting something along those lines by working for Tombstone in the cartoon series.

Very true, and as I mentioned earlier, maybe that will lead to his death.

 

[tzarinna]

Isn't it past your bedtime?

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Isn't it past your bedtime?

Well, I'm on vacation from school right now.

 

[Spade]

I dunno...I thought the reveal of Tombstone as the Big Man was awesome. Revealing him later to be just a figurehead would have to be done in a "spectacular" way for me to think it was a good move (no pun intended).

 

[DOG LIPS]

GREAT episode. I've always liked Rhino, even as a simple powerhouse villain, and he was a lot of fun. I think I even liked him more here than in the 90's toon. Tombstone was totally unexpected, but I did smile when I heard his name. Interesting how Foz is running around now as well. Hmmmmmm.

 

[WolfCypher]

You know its a good thing when your least favorite episode so far deserves a gold medal. I didn't like this episode as much as any of the previous 5, and yet, I liked it, Mikey, I liked it. The transformation of O'Hirn into Rhin'O (all these years, I never saw the connection between those names until a few pages back) was no where near as intense and detailed as Flint Marko's transformation into Sandman, and his willingness to do so also contrasted Flint's panic and eventual reluctantness (sic) (not saying that as a bad thing). The Spidey vs. Rhino battle, which took up 80% of the episode, wasn't even the real draw here, for me at least. It was the sideplots that had the most effect on me (the 1st being Peter trying to get miss Grant to go with him to his Fall Formal while Gwen is left with Eddie and the 2nd being of course Big Man's reveal). Throwing Foswell in the series as a red herring was f***ing priceless...Could NOT have done that with Kingpin! Just goes to show that if you can't do things the way you originally wanted to, do your best & beyond with what you have.

So, finally, we get the Eddie/Gwen shippy people were expecting (we're halfway through season 1, people, we need to start seeing reasons why Eddie would hate Peter). It seems highly unlikely that Eddie will develop a hatred towards Spider-Man specifically (shame). Also, MJ makes her debut and her voice actress was solid. One line isn't enough to make me 100% sure (and what a line) but she did sound good.

 

[Web-Head408]

I'm a bit surprised at how much I like Tombstone being Big Man. I thought I wasn't going to like it when I read earlier today, but it was exucuted perfectly. Probably my favorite scene in the whole episode. Tombstone b**** slapping Spidey, 'nuff said.