The Iran Thread

[Nivek]

Here's the now-popular video of an Iranian woman kicking at riot police to stop them from beating on people before the jackasses team up on her...



Bravo to that woman for her metaphorical balls of ****ing steel.

What cowards.

No wonder these goons are wearing masks, they don't want the hassle when this is over.

 

[kytrigger]

Well it looks lke the Ayatollah did what many were expecting and pretty much stated no new vote would occur and then blamed all the recent problems and the US, Great Britain, and other enemies.

It will be interesting to see if the rioting continues and what Iran's actions will be to it.

 

[Paradyme]

I hope the Iranian people don't take this lightly or give up after hearing this.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

The Ayatollah did exactly what i was hoping which was take a hard line giveng a greater chance of an explosion of civil unrest. It is however doubtful that it will really happen as Moussave will now try to calm things down as the last ting he wants to do is bring down the regime as what they are really looking to do is get Rahfsanjani (who is now probably the richest man in the middle east after he embezzled much of Iran's wealth) in power in place of Khamanei, but not to change the regime in any significant manner.

My only hope is that the people are fed up and the foreign services will help to destabilise and destroy this current regime but I give it as much chance of happening as I do winning the lottery.

 

[BlackLantern]

The Ayatollah did exactly what i was hoping which was take a hard line giveng a greater chance of an explosion of civil unrest. It is however doubtful that it will really happen as Moussave will now try to calm things down as the last ting he wants to do is bring down the regime as what they are really looking to do is get Rahfsanjani (who is now probably the richest man in the middle east after he embezzled much of Iran's wealth) in power in place of Khamanei, but not to change the regime in any significant manner.

My only hope is that the people are fed up and the foreign services will help to destabilise and destroy this current regime but I give it as much chance of happening as I do winning the lottery.

I'm a bit unclear on this...you think other countries should get involved in what is clearly a civil matter??

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I'm a bit unclear on this...you think other countries should get involved in what is clearly a civil matter??

How do you think the Islamic Revolution happenned in the first place - it was not completely internal.

No revolution can happen without outside help and given that is what I hope for, I can only wish it to happen.

 

[BlackLantern]

How do you think the Islamic Revolution happenned in the first place - it was not completely internal.

No revolution can happen without outside help and given that is what I hope for, I can only wish it to happen.

Ok...I'm not sure who or what country might be foolhardy enough to interfere at this point though...Iran is frakkin' hot right now

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Ok...I'm not sure who or what country might be foolhardy enough to interfere at this point though...Iran is frakkin' hot right now

You do realise any interference would be subtile and not something you or I will know about until well after it happens and only if successful.

I only know about the foreign influence which helped the islamic revolution because of people I have had access to who had first hand information about it.

 

[BlackLantern]

I get that lots of things are at work here...the government is trying to stifle information getting out, yet things like FaceBook and Twitter are getting information out there to people....anything that happens there will be very grass roots type stuff

 

[Nivek]

I just hope we stay out of it for now. Let the Iranian people stand up for themselves, or turn their backs and take it. We have our own issue with our forces being on either side of Iran with all this going on.

Personally, I would like to see them realize they do not live in any kind of true democracy, and throw off the Ayatollah and the Religious Theocracy. But I doubt that will happen.

 

[VampElvis]

Damn you BL, making me accept there is a reason for Twitter to exist! Here I was comfortable, if not a bit hot, in my crumudgenness and I have to concede Twitter isn't a spawn of the devil. If it shows the power to being a moderate government to Iran I will be forced to sign up.

 

[Raiden]

I think US can try to, in a subtle way, influence and support the Iranians who wanted regime change, but it is really up to the Iranians if they wanted to bring about a revolution. US had meddled in Iran's politic before, and that just made Iran hate US and brought in an ultra conservative and fundamental change in leadership. US will have to figure out if they can interfere without making it look like US is pulling the strings and gave their current government ammo for accusation.

 

[BlackLantern]

Damn you BL, making me accept there is a reason for Twitter to exist! Here I was comfortable, if not a bit hot, in my crumudgenness and I have to concede Twitter isn't a spawn of the devil. If it shows the power to being a moderate government to Iran I will be forced to sign up.

I don't like it either, Twitter is the devil but it appears to have its uses

 

[Marx]

Well it looks lke the Ayatollah did what many were expecting and pretty much stated no new vote would occur and then blamed all the recent problems and the US, Great Britain, and other enemies.

It will be interesting to see if the rioting continues and what Iran's actions will be to it.

:facepalm

 

[Marx]

HOUSE OVERWHELMINGLY APPROVES IRANIAN RESOLUTION
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/19/house-overwhelmingly-approves-iranian-resolution/

The U.S. House of Representatives on Friday overwhelmingly approved a resolution that supports "all Iranians who embrace the values of freedom, human rights, civil liberties and the rule of law."

The breakdown was 405 lawmakers in favor, one against, with two members voting "present."

The resolution, which also "condemns the ongoing violence against demonstrators," was sponsored by Foreign Affairs Chairman Howard Berman, a California Democrat, and Republicans Mike Pence and House Minority Whip Eric Cantor.

 

[Marx]

REPUBLICANS TAKE ISSUE WITH OBAMA ON IRAN
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/18/cantor-blasts-obama-for-iran-response/

A top congressional Republican on Thursday joined critics of the White House's response to Iran's disputed presidential election, saying the United States has a "moral responsibility" to condemn attacks on protesters.
"The administration's position that what's going on in Iran is a 'vigorous debate' is absurd," House Minority Whip Eric Cantor said in a statement released Thursday. "People are being brutalized and murdered by the regime in Tehran. We have no idea exactly how many have died or have been seriously injured, since the regime has restricted journalists. In no way do these actions constitute a 'vigorous debate.'"


The congressman from Virginia, the No. 2 Republican in the House, added that "America has a moral responsibility to stand up for these brave people, to defend human rights, and to condemn the violence and abuses by the regime in Tehran."


Obama said Monday he was "deeply troubled" by the violent protests that followed Friday's vote, which official results show resulted in the re-election of hard-line Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. But he avoided siding with Ahmadinejad's opponents, telling reporters that "It is up to Iranians to make decisions about who Iran's leaders will be."


Tuesday, he added, "It's not productive, given the history of U.S.-Iranian relations, to be seen as meddling, the U.S. president meddling in Iranian elections."


White House spokesman Robert Gibbs defended that approach Thursday, telling reporters Obama "believes that he's struck the right tone."

"I know some people agree with what Sen. McCain said. Some people agree with what other Republicans have said that's very much like the president's position," Gibbs said. "The president strongly believes that we should — and have — spoken out to ensure the demonstrators have the universal right and principle to demonstrate without fear of harm. But at the same time, we have to respect their sovereignty."

 

[Nivek]

REPUBLICANS TAKE ISSUE WITH OBAMA ON IRAN
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/18/cantor-blasts-obama-for-iran-response/

"Let's pick another fight!"

You know, I'm as big a War Monger as anyone else, but I wish elected officials would get a smack to the head mentioning stuff like this when we have two conflicts that flank Iran.

Hey, what about the conflicts in Africa? Or Myanmar? Oh wait... They don't count to Red's...

 

[Marx]

HOEKSTRA COMPARES IRANIAN PROTESTS TO GOP EFFORT
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/17/hoekstra-compares-iranian-protests-to-gop-effort/

The flood of Twitter activity emerging from the street protests in Iran is bringing back some fond memories for Republican congressman Pete Hoekstra of Michigan.

"Iranian twitter activity similar to what we did in House last year when Republicans were shut down in the House," Hoekstra tweeted from his BlackBerry on Wednesday, referencing how House Republicans used the Web to get their message out after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi adjourned the House before an energy vote last August.

But just how "similar" was that effort to the passionate protests in the streets of Iran that followed last week's disputed election?

Barely a minute passed before Twitter users objected to Hoekstra's assertion. One user quickly tweeted back: "Except the Democrats didn't come after you with clubs and guns, did they?"

Hoekstra's office said the congressman was not making a direct comparison between the two situations and was simply highlighting the value that new technology can play in communicating with supporters.

“Congressman Hoekstra did not compare the ongoing violence in Iran to when Democrats shut down the House chamber during the energy debate last summer," said spokesman Dave Yonkman. "The two situations do share the similarity of government leadership attempting to limit debate and deliberation, and the ability of new technologies to bypass their efforts and allow for direct communication. That’s the only point that he was trying to make."

This isn't Hoekstra's first Twitter controversy. Back in February, the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee tweeted details of a congressional trip to Baghdad. Congressional Quarterly called that a security breach, but the congressman's office said the trip details were not classified and that the the tweets posed no risk.

:facepalm

 

[Nivek]

HOEKSTRA COMPARES IRANIAN PROTESTS TO GOP EFFORT
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/17/hoekstra-compares-iranian-protests-to-gop-effort/

:facepalm

Seen this on the Daily Show last night, they really have no grasp...

 

[Paradoxium]

That is actually a very good question and something which not many have an aswer to. I would just say the Iranian people were one of the mostr advanced people of the middle east and they should be able to evolve into a democracy at some point.

As that idiom goes, "The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions". One must put a lot of thought on action and consequences, of course I am not advocating one be indecisive. As bad as things are, it can get a hell lot worse for the long term if things destabilizes in Iran.

In the all encompassing picture, I think the conflict has less to do with liberty and democracy. From what I can observe, Ahmadinejad and Mousavi wants to re-allocate power differently. That's really it.

The former maintains the status quo (subsidize rural poor), while the latter wants more money for the urb/suburb middle class. Mousavi's backers (businesses) seem to rely on exports and foreign capitalization, while Ahmadinejad's business backers are more domestic oriented. I think this is what it really boils down to. Any notion of democratic revolution or new government is merely one side trying to legitimize themselves comparatively to the other side. Any media exposure is better than none.

I think the western media and vocal minority are piggybacking on this and rewriting the narrative quite a bit. They are preying on the hopes of dreams of those who want "change" from this status quo. In other words, it makes for a good story to sell.

 

[The Overlord]

As that idiom goes, "The Road To Hell Is Paved With Good Intentions". One must put a lot of thought on action and consequences, of course I am not advocating one be indecisive. As bad as things are, it can get a hell lot worse for the long term if things destabilizes in Iran.

In the all encompassing picture, I think the conflict has less to do with liberty and democracy. From what I can observe, Ahmadinejad and Mousavi wants to re-allocate power differently. That's really it.

The former maintains the status quo (subsidize rural poor), while the latter wants more money for the urb/suburb middle class. Mousavi's backers (businesses) seem to rely on exports and foreign capitalization, while Ahmadinejad's business backers are more domestic oriented. I think this is what it really boils down to. Any notion of democratic revolution or new government is merely one side trying to legitimize themselves comparatively to the other side. Any media exposure is better than none.

I think the western media and vocal minority are piggybacking on this and rewriting the narrative quite a bit. They are preying on the hopes of dreams of those who want "change" from this status quo. In other words, it makes for a good story to sell.

The young people in Iran want more freedom though and are sick of theocrats trying to control thier lives. This dispute over an election, could turn into something bigger.

 

[Paradoxium]

The data shows the 18-24 voted overwhelmingly for Ahmadinejad. I posted this already. The demographic shift damage is done. The youth you see are just a vocal minority.

Iran does not want anyone "rescuing" them. Go a head a try, and they will give you the middle finger. I hate to be the Mr. Killjoy, but it is what it is.

 

[The Overlord]

The data shows the 18-24 voted overwhelmingly for Ahmadinejad. I posted this already. The demographic shift damage is done. The youth you see are just a vocal minority.

Iran does not want anyone "rescuing" them. Go a head a try, and they will give you the middle finger. I hate to be the Mr. Killjoy, but it is what it is.

Voted for him in election that most people think is rigged. That's not the best source of info here, I have seen a lot of reports and interviews documenting the underground sub culture of Iran.

 

[Hobodeluxe]

Powerful pic. Consider the song and their culture.

 

[Paradoxium]

Voted for him in election that most people think is rigged. That's not the best source of info here, I have seen a lot of reports and interviews documenting the underground sub culture of Iran.

Taken from May 11 to May 20 and the third in a series over the past two year. An outsider nonprofit polling organization (Independent and uncensored nationwide survey). Here is the PDF, it includes how they collected data (care of Washington Post). It shows the demographic shift. Again I reiterate:

Much commentary has portrayed Iranian youth and the Internet as harbingers of change in this election. But our poll found that only a third of Iranians even have access to the Internet, while 18-to-24-year-olds comprised the strongest voting bloc for Ahmadinejad of all age groups.