The Iran Thread

[The Dude]

I would be useless in battle. I'd just be a meat shield.

 

[Badger]

^

 

[Kritish]

Depends on the circumstances, are we talking an Iraq style thing where we invade for the hell of it? Or has Iran attacked America with nuclear weapons?

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Well I'm 26 now so it couldn't happen. Well I shouldn't say couldn't, but wouldnt be likely.

But if it did, screw all that ****. Sorry, I don't believe or agree with this at all. If our country was being invaded, that's one thing.

 

[Kritish]

I'm twenty-seven, aren't I past the drafting age anyways? But as I said, I'm not going to fight some war 'cause W's in the mood to fight some more. But in some alternate reality where Iran nukes the US I'd go.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

This thread is entirely pointless, seeing how there will never, ever be another draft.

 

[Kritish]

This thread is entirely pointless, seeing how there will never, ever be another draft.

Exactly, 99.9 percent of the population doesn't approve of a draft. That and the fact that a conscripted Army doesn't have the same morale as a volunteer Army anyways.

 

[Honey Vibe]

The invasion would be morally suspect but respecting the chain of command is not suspect. We have a system and an order of things, and without it, society would break down, so maintaining it is not morally suspect.

What a bright, shining lie...

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Exactly, 99.9 percent of the population doesn't approve of a draft. That and the fact that a conscripted Army doesn't have the same morale as a volunteer Army anyways.

That, and we aren't in any way hurting for numbers.

 

[nosebleed.]

I've already enlisted.

Congrats! You'll go places

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

What a bright, shining lie...

Better answer

 

[hippie_hunter]

I would go simply because it's either that or jail.

 

[Honey Vibe]

I would go simply because it's either that or jail.

I would not go, even if it meant going to jail.

 

[Immortalfire]

Would I? Probably. Can I? No, I am physically unable to serve.

Doesn't matter though, ain't no draft happening.

 

[Kritish]

I would go simply because it's either that or jail.

There's several ways of getting out of a draft.

• Claim that it's against your personal beliefs.
• Stay in another country until it's over.
• If all else fails, hurt your foot or something cliche.

 

[Apollo]

its coming i am sure....and if i get picked? i'd go, they pay for everything.. free meals for 2 years? wont be so bad... and if i die? wont be so bad

 

[Vilya]

Iran is a very beautiful country with historic sites, if it were more secular it would be great.

 

[chamber-music]

There's other asians?

No but seriously, they'll do the whole "Oriental is rug" bit.

The whole Un-PC Oriental is actully a North American thing. In most of Europe and commonwealth countries like australia and new zealand its not found offensive. A person of chinese or korean ancestry for example some times identify themselves as oriental.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental


singer, entertainer, punk poet and political critic Henry Rollins went on a spoken word tour in Iran and said the people are just like all of us in the west. They just happen to have a jerk as their leader.

Heres the short interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aihoORjGWKE

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Chess was first regionally located in India:

Where did chess come from? Was it invented by a single person or did it evolve over time? Many eminent chess historians have been fascinated by these questions. While there is considerable controversy over the facts, the most widely accepted scenario is that chess appeared in India around 600 A.D., was adopted in Persia around 700 A.D., and was absorbed by Arab culture around 800 A.D. The Arab / Muslim influence was responsible for its later introduction into other cultures.

India:

India and the West (513-298 B.C.E.).
· In 513 B.C.E., Emperor Darius of the Persian empire conquered the Indus Valley.
- Persian control did not reach eastward beyond the banks of the Indus.
- Nonetheless, western India enjoyed immediate contact not only with the old cultures of Egypt and Mesopotamia but also with the young and vital culture of the Greeks.
· Culturally, the Persian conquest introducing new ideas, techniques, and materials into India.
- As members of the vast Persian Empire, Indians learned the administrative techniques of ruling large tracts of land and huge numbers of people.
- The adoption of coined money for economic transactions.
* Indians learned the technique of minting silver coins.
* Even states in the Ganges Valley, which were never part of the empire, adopted the use of coinage.
- Another innovation was the introduction of Aramaic language and script, the official
language of the Persian Empire.
- Indians participated in the larger economic world created by the Persians.
* Trade by sea.
* Caravan cities grew in number and wealth, as overland trade thrived in the peace brought about
by Persian rule.
- Overall, the arrival of the Persians drew India into the mainstream of sophisticated urban, commercial, and political life in the ancient world.


Therefore it is correct, it seems Chess first orginiated in India.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

The current gov't was helped put in place by them? How's that?
I thought they were against the revolution especially the U.S., hell the U.S. emabassy was taken over, and they took hostages, remember?

And I think Persia is a better name than Iran, but hey, it's your country.

Basically, and this is heavily summarised, the last Shah was put in effective power over the prime minister in the 50s because the prime minister had strong communist ties. In exchange the US and Britain were taking the large majority of Iran's oil revenue. In the 70s Iran decided to take back this revenue and started Opec which led to the oil crisis. Khomeini had been exiled from Iran in the 60s and the West decided to use him as a figurehead against the Shah. In the mid 70s a large slander campaign was started in the media portraying the Shah as a cruel dicatator.

You had top US diplomats under carter who started going around saying that it would be preferable to have a strong Religious leader at the head of Iran instead of a monarch (he used the word dictator). The crisis started truly in the late spring of 1978 and culminated in the Shah's departure in January 1979. Khomeini had been residing for the past 3 years in a Chateau (castle) that the French government had provided to him. All the time he was talking to diplomats from France, Britain and the US (these were not public). The rumor is that he led on that he would be freindlier then the Shah and he would give the oil revenues to France, Great Britain and the States. He of course betrayed their trust (which was misplaced anyways). Just note that khomeini had been a dissident cleric who was exiled mostly in agreement with the main Mollahs (Muslim preists) of Iran.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

singer, entertainer, punk poet and political critic Henry Rollins went on a spoken word tour in Iran and said the people are just like all of us in the west. They just happen to have a jerk as their leader.

Heres the short interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aihoORjGWKE

I never realised he was that intelligent. I am not sure I agree with everything he does or anything else but there is no denying that is an intelligent guy.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Obama pledges new relationship with Iran

He says diplomacy part of an effort to stabilize Iraq, bring troops home
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CHICAGO - Senator Barack Obama said he would “engage in aggressive personal diplomacy” with Iran if elected president, and would offer economic inducements and a possible promise not to seek “regime change” if Iran stopped meddling in Iraq and cooperated on terrorism and nuclear issues.
In an hourlong interview on Wednesday, Mr. Obama made clear that forging a new relationship with Iran would be a major element of what he pledged would be a broad effort to stabilize Iraq as he executed a speedy timetable for the withdrawal of American combat troops.
Mr. Obama said that Iran had been “acting irresponsibly” by supporting Shiite militant groups in Iraq. He also emphasized that Iran’s suspected nuclear weapons program and its support for “terrorist activities” were serious concerns.

But he asserted that Iran’s support for militant groups in Iraq reflected its anxiety over the Bush policies in the region, including talk of a possible American military strike on Iranian nuclear installations.
Making clear that he planned to talk to Iran without preconditions, Mr. Obama emphasized further that “changes in behavior” by Iran could possibly be rewarded with membership in the World Trade Organization , other economic benefits and security guarantees.
“We are willing to talk about certain assurances in the context of them showing some good faith,” he said in the interview at his campaign headquarters here. “I think it is important for us to send a signal that we are not hellbent on regime change, just for the sake of regime change, but expect changes in behavior. And there are both carrots and there are sticks available to them for those changes in behavior.”
Distinguishing himself
In his Democratic presidential bid, Mr. Obama has vigorously sought to distinguish himself on foreign policy from his rivals, particularly Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, by asserting that he would sit down for diplomatic meetings with countries like Iran, North Korea and Syria with no preconditions.
The suggestion, which emerged as flash point in the campaign, has prompted Mrs. Clinton to question whether such an approach would amount to little more than a propaganda victory for the United States’s adversaries and to question the experience of Mr. Obama, a first-term senator from Illinois. Other Democrats, in turn, have criticized Mrs. Clinton for an approach to Iran they called too hawkish.
Mr. Obama’s willingness to conduct talks at the highest level with Iran also differs significantly from the Bush administration. The administration has authorized Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker to discuss Iraq with Iranian officials. But the White House has also said it will not engage in high-level talks on other issues unless Iran first suspends its program to enrich uranium. Nor has the Bush administration advertised in such detail the possible rewards for a change of Iranian behavior.
Obama: Looking forward on Iraq
Through most of the interview, Mr. Obama spoke without referring to notes. At one point near the end of the session, he leaned forward in his chair and looked at a yellow legal pad on the table in front of him, which listed points where he believed he and Mrs. Clinton differ on how to go forward in Iraq.
“You don’t want to look backwards, but obviously our general view about this mission as a whole has been very different,” Mr. Obama said. “She missed the strategic interests that should have dictated whether we went to Iraq in the first place or not.”
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Mrs. Clinton has said that after carrying out major troop withdrawals she would leave a residual force in Iraq to fight Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia , battle other terrorist groups, train the Iraqi Army and deter Iranian intervention.
Mr. Obama has also talked about keeping a limited force in Iraq after withdrawing American combat units at the rate of one or two per month. But Mr. Obama insisted in the interview that the mission of his residual force would be more limited than that posited by Mrs. Clinton.
Details of residual force idea
Mr. Obama said, for example, that the part of the residual force assigned to counterterrorism might be based outside Iraq. He also emphasized that the residual force would not have the mission of deterring Iranian involvement in Iraq. He said he would commit to training Iraqi security forces only if the Iraqi government engaged in political reconciliation and did not employ the Iraqi Army and police for sectarian purposes. In any event, he said, American trainers would not be attached with Iraqi units that go in harm’s way.
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“The trainers are going to have to be provided with missions that don’t put them in vulnerable situations,” he said. “Part of what my goal is is that the trainers are not constantly embedded in combat operations.” Whether such a limited force could effectively influence events in Iraq is an important question. Keeping the part of the force assigned to counterterrorism outside the country raises the issue of whether it could respond in a timely way and without the benefit of the sort of intelligence that is gathered by forces that regularly interact with Iraqi civilians. Nor is it clear how, without keeping some combat forces in the country, the American military might rush to the aid of any trainers if they came under attack.

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Mr. Obama acknowledged in the interview that there were “legitimate questions” as to how his concept of a residual force might work, and said he would adjust it if necessary after discussions with senior military leaders.
“As commander in chief, I’m not going to leave trainers unprotected. In our counterterrorism efforts, I’m not going to have a situation where our efforts can’t be successful,” he said. “If the commanders tell me that they need X, Y and Z, in order to accomplish the very narrow mission that I’ve laid out, then I will take that into consideration.”
An aggressive policy
For all his efforts to emphasize an approach that calls for minimal military involvement in Iraq, Mr. Obama’s plan is in one respect more ambitious than Mrs. Clinton’s. While Mr. Obama said he hoped to withdraw all American combat forces within 16 months of taking office, his plan states that American and allied troops should be prepared to return to Iraq and protect civilians if there were genocidal attacks against civilians.
“I do not anticipate that happening, because I think we can execute our withdrawal in an effective way,” he said. “What I am saying is that I as president am obviously going to be mindful of the possibility of humanitarian disaster and if that were to occur, I am not ruling out that we wouldn’t take steps in concert with other nations — even if it was short term — to ensure that a wholesale disaster did not take place.”
Mr. Obama argued that it was “too speculative” to say if the United States would undertake such action unilaterally or only if allied nations chose to participate.

Other aspects of his policy for the Middle East region also remain unclear. Mr. Obama declined to say if he would consider military action if Iran did not abandon its presumed nuclear weapons program or if he would settle for a strategy of deterring and containing a nuclear-armed Iran.
“My decision making, with respect to military options versus diplomatic options, a containment strategy versus a strike strategy, is going to be informed by how is that going to impact not just Iran,” he said, “but how is that going to impact the stability of the region and how’s that going to impact our long-term security interests.”
Obama visited Iraq
Mr. Obama, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, visited Iraq in January 2006. Asked whether that was his last visit, given how much events on the ground have changed since then, he jumped in before the question was finished, saying, “Given how important this is, why haven’t I gone back?”
“I’ll be honest with you,” he said. “Part of it is that my schedule is such that the trips would be one or two days and would be centered around the Green Zone.” He added: “I suspect we will be going back. It probably won’t before Iowa, realistically speaking.” The Iowa caucuses are scheduled for Jan. 3.
(Mrs. Clinton has been to Iraq three times, her aides said.)
Mr. Obama has implored voters to consider his judgment in foreign policy, reminding audiences at political rallies and in television commercials that he spoke out against the Iraq war from the beginning, two years before he was elected to the Senate. That judgment, he said, would be carried over to selecting people to fill his administration.
He said his views were shaped by his foreign policy advisers, including Richard Danzig, who was Navy secretary under President Bill Clinton; Anthony Lake, a national security adviser in the Clinton administration; Susan E. Rice, an assistant secretary of state for African affairs under Mr. Clinton; Scott Gration, a retired Air Force major general; and Gen. Merrill A. McPeak, now retired, a former chief of staff of the Air Force.
Asked whom he would appoint as defense secretary or to important national security positions, Mr. Obama said he would consider “the best person, regardless of party.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21586430/
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[PemLam]

Just lovely...bribe Iran with money and membership. Same rhetoric, different politician.

 

[Spider-Bite]

sorry about the huge font. Tried to fix it, but it keeps messing up. Anyways I'm with Obama here. We have nothing to lose. It's time. The path to war between our countries is becoming more and more unavoidable as each day passes.

 

[PemLam]

sorry about the huge font. Tried to fix it, but it keeps messing up. Anyways I'm with Obama here. We have nothing to lose. It's time. The path to war between our countries is becoming more and more unavoidable as each day passes.

I'm getting older...huge font is good.

I'm all for diplomacy over military action...but I don't consider giving them truckloads of money true diplomacy.