The Iran Thread

If it's proven Iran's helping the insurgency kill American troops, do we invade Iran?

  • yes

  • no

  • not sure


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But it's a danger that the US helped create along with Britain because Iran had the nerve to nationalize it's own oil. Mosaddeq the duly elected prime minister was overthrown (read about Operation Ajax) in 1953 and the Shah took power. He was subsequently overthrown in the Iranian Revolution in 1979.

If Operation Ajax never took place, the last 50 years of Iranian history would have been very different, and subsequently the world.
 
Yes, Iran is another example of world powers sticking their nose where it doesnt belong. Thats beside the point. What are we going to do about it now?
 
I think what we are going to do about it now is stick our nose where it doesn't belong.
 
-Persistent rhetoric should always be taken seriously.
But it shouldn't be taken out of context - It's the political hyperbole of middle eastern politics.

-We've been hearing forever that they've been working on a nuclear program. Shortly after we invaded Iraq, I read that Iran's nuke testing hours were far and away more numerous than Iraq's.
are you opposed to them having nuclear power? it's a cheap efficient form of power that could revolutionize and enrich the lives of thousands of Iranians - i think you might be confusing the two

Still, what can we do about it? Its a "damned if you do, damned if you dont" situation. A strike at the nuclear facilities would result in the closing of the Straights of Hormuz, amount other retaliatory actions. Without oil, the teetering economy would fall apart. If we dont remove the threat, we can kiss Israel goodbye.

So whats the best course of action?

Iran is not going to attack Israel. Israel is a nuclear power - they aren't stupid.

This hype about Iran having nuke's, when we know they don't, does nothing but invoke fear in the minds of the suspicious, and fuel those set on war for financial gain. If anything Iran is in far greater danger of a pre-emptive strike FROM Israel....

Iran has always been the biggest threat from the Middle East. The only thing that stood out about Iraq was it had a face in the form of Saddam Hussein. Hell, Saddam hated the Al-Quieda(sp) and the Taliban, him being there kept Iran out of reach for those cells.

In my opinion, Iran has yet to be punished for the U.S. Embassy hostage crisis. They are a threat, and ask yourself, would the world not be better off without Iran? What do they contribute to the world?
Typical narrow bigoted Red neck response...
How exactly has Iran been the biggest threat from the middle east. They certainly don't produce the most "terrorists". Egypt and Saudi Arabia produce far more. They haven't attacked any other nations lately, Israel has that honour. They have a stable government - Iraq doesn't.

Don't get me wrong, Iran does some horrible things, they still allow the death penalty for people under 18, and arrest peaceful human rights activists, and there are widespread discrimination against women (although no where near as extreme as many other Middle eastern nations at this time)

I know Iran was and is a bigger threat than Iraq could have been on Saddam's best day. It's a country we should have put down decades ago, and now thats not an option, as you said. Iran is nothing but a danger to the United States.

The saddest part is, Iran truly views the American people as weak and cowardly, and the sad part is, this country has become, for one reason or another, weak and cowardly.
Dude, you're saying that like there's something brave and noble about bombing the **** out of small town's and cities, murdering thousands of innocent civilians...

I'd rather be weak and cowardly thank you sir.


Iran is not a danger to the US. They don't have the capacity, and even if they did, they would not be stupid enough to pick on the worlds only super power. You have more to worry about from fundamentalists outside the political realm, and sociopaths from within your own borders.
 
But it shouldn't be taken out of context - It's the political hyperbole of middle eastern politics.
How is "The Great Satan" and The Little Satan" and "Israel should be wiped off the map" taken out of context?


are you opposed to them having nuclear power? it's a cheap efficient form of power that could revolutionize and enrich the lives of thousands of Iranians - i think you might be confusing the two
Nuclear power? No prob. Nuclear weapons? Big problem. The fact is that we dont know for absolutely sure what they will do with nuclear tech. If they werent such a fervent supporter of terrorism, no one would be concerned.


Iran is not going to attack Israel. Israel is a nuclear power - they aren't stupid.

I think you over estimate how much the mullahs care for their own people. They use suicide bombers in Palestine, through Hezbollah. The president, I wont try to spell his name, has invoked the 13 Mullah that will bring about the end of the world in a global war. Thats a good window into his mind set.

This hype about Iran having nuke's, when we know they don't, does nothing but invoke fear in the minds of the suspicious, and fuel those set on war for financial gain. If anything Iran is in far greater danger of a pre-emptive strike FROM Israel....
I would say the danger is equal. But Israel would be acting defensively, while Iran would be acting aggressively.





Iran is not a danger to the US. They don't have the capacity, and even if they did, they would not be stupid enough to pick on the worlds only super power. You have more to worry about from fundamentalists outside the political realm, and sociopaths from within your own borders.

Yes, we have nut jobs in the US but that doesnt mean we dont have to worry about the nut jobs from outside. I'm not advocating war with Iran. I just think its a serious problem that needs to be addressed.
 
How is "The Great Satan" and The Little Satan" and "Israel should be wiped off the map" taken out of context?
It happens just as easily as i mistook your claim that Iran was the biggest threat to the US, and that they "should have been put down" or your rhetoric "They are a threat, and ask yourself, would the world not be better off without Iran? What do they contribute to the world?" for some sort of agressive warmongering stance against Iran, when in your latest post you have firmly claimed that you are not advocating war...

It's not a huge shock for a middle eastern country to be calling the US "the great Satan" it's been happening for years due to deep seeded resentment over years of neglectful foreign policy on the part of the US. Whether this indicates a wish to attack the US is a very different matter. I'm Sure you resent some people in your life, and perhaps brag about how they're evil, but that would hardly be seen as you planning on murdering them, nor, importantly in this scenario, enough for them to murder you preemptively in self defense.

It is no secret that Iran is opposed to the current Israeli run Palestine, as is much of the arab world. But nuking holy sites of the muslim faith would hardly be in Iran's best interests either. Neither would Funding terrorist organisations (not publicly anyway...although pakistan got away with it for years...)


Nuclear power? No prob. Nuclear weapons? Big problem. The fact is that we dont know for absolutely sure what they will do with nuclear tech. If they werent such a fervent supporter of terrorism, no one would be concerned.
Personally, i don't think they should have either - i'm anti nuclear power because of the very problem you outline here. I don't think any nations should use it - because it leads to suspicion and may quickly lead to arms races between nations.

However, there's no international law against nuclear power - Nor is there against nuclear weapons unless said nation is already a signatory to international treaties banning them. (which is voluntary)

However, Iran is not the Greatest supporter of terrorist groups financially (that's soudi arabia) nor for being suspected of hiding them (that would be Pakistan - who also happens to be a nuclear power.... why aren't you scared of them?)

I think you over estimate how much the mullahs care for their own people. They use suicide bombers in Palestine, through Hezbollah. The president, I wont try to spell his name, has invoked the 13 Mullah that will bring about the end of the world in a global war. Thats a good window into his mind set.
In Iran "Mullah" usually refers to a story teller telling of mohammed's grandson.... I'm not sure how a story teller invokes a global war...nor why anyone would want the end of the world either... could you perhaps clarify this story with a link - cause it sounds like the bogus dribble of a man in the pub...

i think perhaps you mean Ayatollah, which doesn't make sense eitehr as Hezbollah doesn't have one...

Hezbollah interestingly enough has a long history of having secular communist suicide bombers - willing to die, not for supernatural reward, but to ensure a separate state for the palestinians..

Hezbollah is not run by Iran. I wouldn't be suprised if many iranians did fund Hezbollah, but i'm sure many other individuals from othe rnations do as well.

I would say the danger is equal. But Israel would be acting defensively, while Iran would be acting aggressively.
Wait? WTF? There's aggression on both sides. How would Israel be morally jusfied in murdering the civilians of a nation, just because it's leaders were dumb and didn't watch what they said? I spose Hitler was Acting defensively when he gassed all those jews, cause they hated him after he took their stuff.... if he hadn't done it one day they might have attacked him..

Yes, we have nut jobs in the US but that doesnt mean we dont have to worry about the nut jobs from outside. I'm not advocating war with Iran. I just think its a serious problem that needs to be addressed.
we agree on something finally. It is a serious problem and it does need addressing. But It needs addressing with a rational, diplomatic, series of dialogues between the nations, publicly for the world to witness.
 
It happens just as easily as i mistook your claim that Iran was the biggest threat to the US, and that they "should have been put down" or your rhetoric "They are a threat, and ask yourself, would the world not be better off without Iran? What do they contribute to the world?" for some sort of agressive warmongering stance against Iran, when in your latest post you have firmly claimed that you are not advocating war...
That was another poster. Not me.

It's not a huge shock for a middle eastern country to be calling the US "the great Satan" it's been happening for years due to deep seeded resentment over years of neglectful foreign policy on the part of the US. Whether this indicates a wish to attack the US is a very different matter. I'm Sure you resent some people in your life, and perhaps brag about how they're evil, but that would hardly be seen as you planning on murdering them, nor, importantly in this scenario, enough for them to murder you preemptively in self defense.

Yes, US foreign policy has been at fault for some of the trouble in the Middle East. As was the post colonial state the region was in. As are the Muslims themselves, for the rampant corruption in their governments.


However, Iran is not the Greatest supporter of terrorist groups financially (that's soudi arabia) nor for being suspected of hiding them (that would be Pakistan - who also happens to be a nuclear power.... why aren't you scared of them?)

Its certainly one of the major contributors. How do you know I'm not worried about Pakistan? Are you psychic? The fact that al Qaida has been allowed to move into the tribal areas worries me. The fact that bin Laden is so popular in the major Pakistani cities worries me. The fact that Pakistan is nearly a failed state worries me. How do we know that nukes wont get into the hands of al Qaida? We dont.


In Iran "Mullah" usually refers to a story teller telling of mohammed's grandson.... I'm not sure how a story teller invokes a global war...nor why anyone would want the end of the world either... could you perhaps clarify this story with a link - cause it sounds like the bogus dribble of a man in the pub...

Dont ask me. I dont think he will end the world. Ask the Iranian President.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor.../Divine-mission-driving-Irans-new-leader.html
http://www.iranian.ws/cgi-bin/iran_news/exec/view.cgi/13/10945
i think perhaps you mean Ayatollah, which doesn't make sense eitehr as Hezbollah doesn't have one...
I was referring to Iran.


Wait? WTF? There's aggression on both sides. How would Israel be morally jusfied in murdering the civilians of a nation, just because it's leaders were dumb and didn't watch what they said? I spose Hitler was Acting defensively when he gassed all those jews, cause they hated him after he took their stuff.... if he hadn't done it one day they might have attacked him..
You're comparing Israel to Hitler? Really? Israel's existence is threatened by Iran. Iran's existence is not under threat from Israel. No one wants innocent Iranians killed, believe it or not. But innocent Israelis? I guess they had it coming.

we agree on something finally. It is a serious problem and it does need addressing. But It needs addressing with a rational, diplomatic, series of dialogues between the nations, publicly for the world to witness.

Agreed. Hopefully Pres Obama's reconciliatory tone will make that possible.
 
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That was another poster. Not me.
Sorry dude, my bad.

Yes, US foreign policy has been at fault for some of the trouble in the Middle East. As was the post colonial state the region was in. As are the Muslims themselves, for the rampant corruption in their governments.

Its certainly one of the major contributors. How do you know I'm not worried about Pakistan? Are you psychic? The fact that al Qaida has been allowed to move into the tribal areas worries me. The fact that bin Laden is so popular in the major Pakistani cities worries me. The fact that Pakistan is nearly a failed state worries me. How do we know that nukes wont get into the hands of al Qaida? We dont.
Another reason i'm all for nuclear disarmament.


Thanks for the links dude, I did not know about the Hojjatieh. Seems like an interesting secret society.... pitty they're crazy.


You're comparing Israel to Hitler? Really? Israel's existence is threatened by Iran. Iran's existence is not under threat from Israel. No one wants innocent Iranians killed, believe it or not. But innocent Israelis? I guess they had it coming.
Iran is not yet a serious threat, To take action now would be an act of aggression in my books. If Iran did have Nukes, and was likely to use them, then and only then, could Israel pre-emptively attack on the basis of self preservation.

Agreed. Hopefully Pres Obama's reconciliatory tone will make that possible.

I think i should clarify a few things. I really don't like Ahmadinejad, but he doesn't have that much power even in his own country - let alone on a global scale. He's not the Supreme Leader of Iran, And Khameni (who is) although himself not a great leader in many ways, and strongly anti-what he-see's-as America's desire for global dominance, believing western civilisation to e a corrupting influence on good islamic society, does not however approve of violence, and strongly condemed the september 11 attacks on the US.
saying "Mass killings of human beings are catastrophic acts which are condemned" he said "wherever they may happen and whoever the perpetrators and the victims may be".
. Furthermore, he himself issued a Fatwa Against the production, use, or stockpilling of Nuclear weapons -
 
This is not that worrisome, they can't even make an atomic bomb yet, let alone a hydrogen bomb. It's a long and costly proceedure that has to be done perfectly or it becomes a dud (look at russia). People are worrying about the possibility of this or that but the actuality of the matter is they're years from coming close to making one single atomic bomb. I don't think we should be even entertaining the idea of violence at this stage, their weapons capability and tech is just too primative to be relevant at this time.
 
http://www.optimum.net/News/AP/Article?articleId=551399

Lawyer: Iran convicts US journalist of spying
TEHRAN, Iran, Sat Apr 18, 12:31 PM


An American journalist jailed in Iran has been convicted of spying and sentenced to eight years in prison just days after she was tried behind closed doors, her lawyer said Saturday, dashing any hopes for her quick release.

Roxana Saberi's Iranian-born father said his daughter was tricked into making incriminating statements by officials who told her they would free her if she did.
It was the first time Iran has found an American journalist guilty of spying, and it was unclear how it would affect recent overtures by the Obama administration for better relations and engagement with Washington's longtime adversary.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said she was "deeply disappointed" by the conviction.

Saberi, a 31-year-old dual American-Iranian citizen, was arrested in late January and initially accused of working without press credentials. But earlier this month, an Iranian judge leveled a far more serious allegation, charging her with spying for the United States.

She appeared before an Iranian court behind closed doors on Monday in an unusually swift one-day trial. Her lawyer was permitted to attend, but had declined to discuss any details.

The Fargo, North Dakota native had been living in Iran for six years and had worked as a freelance reporter for several news organizations including National Public Radio and the British Broadcasting Corp.

"Saberi has been sentenced to eight years in jail. I'll definitely appeal the verdict," lawyer Abdolsamad Khorramshahi told The Associated Press.
Reza Saberi told NPR his daughter denied the incriminating statements she made when she realized she had been tricked but "apparently in the case they didn't consider her denial."

He said his daughter was convicted Wednesday, but the court waited until Saturday to announce the verdict to the lawyers. He is in Iran but was not allowed into the courtroom to see his daughter, who he described as "quite depressed."

North Dakota Senator Byron Dorgan called on the Iranian government to "show compassion" and release Saberi. "This is a shocking miscarriage of justice," the Democrat said in a statement issued Saturday.

Clinton said in a statement the U.S. is working with Swiss diplomats in Iran to get details about the court's decision and to ensure Saberi's well-being. She said the U.S. will "vigorously raise our concerns" with the Iranian government.

The United States has called the charges against Saberi baseless and has demanded her release, and the conviction and prison sentence could put strains on efforts to improve ties.

President Barack Obama has said it wants to engage Iran in talks on its nuclear program and other issues — a departure from the tough talk of the Bush administration.

Iran has been mostly lukewarm to the overtures, but Iran's hard-line president gave the clearest signal yet on Wednesday that the Islamic Republic was also willing to start a new relationship with Washington.
In a speech, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Iran was preparing new proposals aimed at breaking an impasse with the West over its nuclear program.

But it was uncertain how Washington would react to Saberi's conviction. On Thursday, the State Department said Saberi's jailing was not helpful and that Iran would gain U.S. good will if it "responded in a positive way" to the case.

Some conservative Iranian lawmakers played down Saberi's conviction, saying the verdict would not affect any ongoing efforts to build trust between Washington and Iran.

"Although there is a wall of mistrust between Iran and the United States, the judicial verdict won't affect possible future talks between the two countries. The verdict is based on evidence," said lawmaker Hosseini Sobhaninia.

The United States severed diplomatic relations with Iran after its 1979 Islamic revolution and takeover of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran. Relations deteriorated further under the former President George W. Bush, who labeled Iran as part of the so-called "Axis of Evil" along with Saddam Hussein's Iraq and North Korea.

Iran's judiciary is dominated by hard-liners, which some analysts say are trying to derail efforts to improve U.S.-Iran relations.

Saberi's conviction comes about two months ahead of key presidential elections in June. Ahmadinejad is seeking re-election, but the hard-liner's popularity has waned as Iran's economy struggles with high-inflation and unemployment. The June 12 vote is pitting the hard-liners against reformists — led by a former prime minister Mir Hossein Mousavi — who support better relations with the U.S.

Human rights groups have repeatedly criticized Iran for arresting journalists and suppressing freedom of speech. The government has arrested several Iranian-Americans in the past few years, citing alleged attempts to overthrow its Islamic government through what it calls a "soft revolution." But they were never put on trial and were eventually released from prison.

Journalist watchdog groups criticized the conviction. The New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists said in a statement on Saturday that her trial "lacked transparency."

"We call on the Iranian authorities to release her on bail pending her appeal," Mohamed Abdel Dayem, the group's Middle East and North Africa program coordinator, said in the statement.

NPR released a statement saying it was "deeply distressed by this harsh and unwarranted sentence."

Iran has released few details about the charges against Saberi. Iranian officials initially said she had been arrested for working in the Islamic Republic without press credentials and she had told her father in a phone conversation that she was arrested after buying a bottle of wine.
An Iranian investigative judge involved in the case charged that Saberi was passing classified information to U.S. intelligence services.
Her parents, who traveled to Iran from their home in Fargo in a bid to help win their daughter's release, could not immediately be reached for comment on Saturday.

Saberi's father has said his daughter, who was Miss North Dakota in 1997, had been working on a book about the culture and people of Iran, and hoped to finish it and return to the United States this year.
"I'll bet my bottom dollar she has not been spying," said Marilyn McGinley, president of the Miss North Dakota pageant, who said she has kept in touch with the journalist through telephone calls and e-mails.

"She is not a spy. She loved the people over there and her intention of going over there was to learn about her culture," she said.
 
This is crazy......I hope the administration speaks out as strongly about this as the previous administration did the 2 Baylor University girls that were imprisoned in Afghanistan in 2001.

And I don't mean, speak out in the press........I mean speak out through the established means and do it swiftly and strongly. I don't need to hear that its being done, I just want it DONE.
 
This is shockingly wrong and ridiculous. Our government needs to pressure Iran into dropping this farce, this woman is being held in prison for spying?! What a sickening anti-American piece of posturing.
 
They better do something and do something quick. My hope that as Obama is shaking hands with Chavez.....he's kicking Iran's ass behind the scenes....
 
I hope the American will be brought home after some diplomatic negotiation behind the scene. But this is just Iran doing it to peeve the U.S.
 
Well, I hope our discussion is more than "we are disappointed" behind the scenes....
 
Obama has to have a strong reaction to this, not only for this situation - but to show to Israel that they will not take any shenanigans from Iran. Obama's perceived weakness in Foreign Relations may convince Israel they can no longer put trust in America, forcing them to be overly aggressive with Iran.
 
Obama has to have a strong reaction to this, not only for this situation - but to show to Israel that they will not take any shenanigans from Iran. Obama's perceived weakness in Foreign Relations may convince Israel they can no longer put trust in America, forcing them to be overly aggressive with Iran.

I can see this as likely, especially with Netanyahu in charge.
 
Honestly...I'm expecting this type of thing to happen more and more.

I'm expecting the same thing to happen to the two U.S. Journalists in North Korea to be sentenced too.

I just think more and more people are thinking it's fairgame to this. Even though it's wrong.
 
The problem is that no one fears Obama. This is going to continue until Obama gives the world a reason to fear him. The Iraq War may of lost America respect in the eyes of liberal allies, but it bolster America's position when dealing with Rogue Nations.
 
OBAMA CALLS FOR RELEASE OF IRANIAN AMERICAN REPORTER INPRISONED IN IRAN
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/fir...se-iranian-american-reporter-imprisoned-iran/

President Obama said Sunday he's "gravely concerned" about the safety and well-being of a U.S. journalist jailed in Iran. He's confident she is not involved in espionage against Tehran.

At the Summit of the Americas, Obama said Sunday that he's working to ensure the safety of Roxana Saberi, a 31-year-old dual American-Iranian citizen. She was sentenced to eight years in an Iranian prison on charges of spying for the United States.

Saberi's case has been an irritant in U.S.-Iran relations at a time when Obama is offering to start a dialogue.

"She is an Iranian American who was interested in the country which her family came from. And it is appropriate for her to be treated as such and to be released. We are going to be in contact with -- through our Swiss intermediaries -- with the Iranian government and want to ensure that we end up seeing a proper disposition of this case," Obama said.
 
Obama has spoken out against it, good. Now he should prepare to bomb the hell out of those ****ers if they don't release her. We should unleash the wrath of God on these people. They are holding one of our citizens captive for no reason. They either release her, or they suffer the consequences and they should be grave.
 
Agreed. Obama should not even negotiate. Negotiation implies they have a valid stance. Obama should demand she be released. He should establish a deadline of 72 hours to have this woman on a plane back to the States, otherwise we will begin bombing strategic military positions in Iran.
 
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