The Jared Leto is The Joker(?) Thread

[Boom]

Ledger's Joker was a cultural icon. Too big to ignore.

 

[shauner111]

Wait what? Downey over Ledger back in 2008? I was entertained by Downey in Tropic Thunder no doubt, but it wasn't even a contest.

Sorry Vile, but your Jason Todd-Joker idea is just not a good one. I agree with Boom, i'd rather not see Joker return in the DCEU than have that.

I say wait it out. Give Leto another shot with better direction and writing, and maybe change his design slightly. I was gonna say Leto may have a spot in Gotham City Sirens but i doubt he'll want to work with Ayer again. So, wait this out, and when another reboot happens we can get a brand new Joker with a different actor, design, everything.

I don't think it would be smart to use Joker in the first or even second film of the next rebooted Bat-franchise. I assume it will be a huge knee jerk reaction to the DCEU. Which will mean a younger, in his prime Batman. A younger Joker without tattoo's, grillz. No pimp lover characterization. Probably no Harley Quinn. No shared universe. So everything in their power to get away from Leto's interpretation. And i say get an unknown actor, not a big Oscar winner.

 

[The Joker]

These films contradict each other all the time. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle contradicted story elements introduced in Sherlock Holmes numerous times.

Also, the revision here would be the genuine Joker did not have a hand in this Harley Quinn's origin, such is life.

I'm just thinking of ways to course correct an awful interpretation of Joker.

Also, isn't the plan for Harley Quinn to become a vigilante herself? She can't keep hanging around Joker and be his lover if that's the case.

Just because certain other movies contradict each other with their plot lines doesn't make it a good thing, or that it should be done here.

Harley's whole basis is she was created by the real Joker, and that's whom she is in love with. So just writing that off and saying such is life is dismissing a very important element to her character. The defining aspect.

I appreciate you're trying to correct this awful Joker, but trying to do it with equally awful writing isn't the way to do it. They just need to give the characterization an overhaul, come up with some way that he loses those tattoos, and stops dressing like some pimp.

Harley has been all sorts of things, but that doesn't change her back story, or the fact that she always finds her way back to the Joker no matter what she does on her own.

 

[Boom]

I mean really, if they gave us a traditional-looking Joker and Leto dropped the Jim Carrey impersonation, would anyone here really bat an eye if they didn't waste time trying to explain away Suicide Squad? My guess is no.

 

[The Joker]

That's the thing, it can be changed with little explanation. Just change his acting style, his dress sense, and say he had the tattoos removed.

 

[TheVileOne]

Just because certain other movies contradict each other with their plot lines doesn't make it a good thing, or that it should be done here.

Harley's whole basis is she was created by the real Joker, and that's whom she is in love with. So just writing that off and saying such is life is dismissing a very important element to her character. The defining aspect.

Ultron's whole basis is that he was created by Hank Pym, and he's Hank Pym's greatest sin. For years, Pym has struggled to come to terms with creating Ultron, automated AI determined to wipe out humanity. In the movies he was created by Tony Stark instead.

I appreciate you're trying to correct this awful Joker, but trying to do it with equally awful writing isn't the way to do it. They just need to give the characterization an overhaul, come up with some way that he loses those tattoos, and stops dressing like some pimp.

You can't just lose the tattoos though. Why is he suddenly going to stop acting like a pimp either? It's not just going to suddenly happen.

Harley has been all sorts of things, but that doesn't change her back story, or the fact that she always finds her way back to the Joker no matter what she does on her own.

Except now she's a superhero because of feminism or something.

 

[shauner111]

Leto is not going to change his act. And they won't lose the tattoo's. The only thing that might change is his attire. He probably won't kill Harley either, because WB see her as one huge sexy dollar sign right now. So i'm sure Leto will continue to be a lovesick puppy as we all like to call him around here.

 

[TheVileOne]

Since they aren't going to change Leto's act, the point is you have to change Leto. Just say he wasn't the real Joker.

 

[The Joker]

Ultron's whole basis is that he was created by Hank Pym, and he's Hank Pym's greatest sin. For years, Pym has struggled to come to terms with creating Ultron, automated AI determined to wipe out humanity. In the movies he was created by Tony Stark instead.

Not remotely the same. Pym and Ultron are not dependant on each other's existence as characters. Neither one has any kind of emotional attachment or dependancy. There's no co-dependancy there like there is with Harley for Joker. Harley exists because she loves the Joker. The real Joker. Apart from Stark creating Ultron, nothing was different about Ultron's characterization because he doesn't care about who created him. He just sees himself as better than humanity and wants to eradicate it. Harley on the other hand always needs the Joker.

You can't just lose the tattoos though. Why is he suddenly going to stop acting like a pimp either? It's not just going to suddenly happen.

Of course it can. Just skip ahead several months or a year for the next time we see the Joker, and in that time he could have had the tattoos surgically removed. Simple as that. He can stop acting like a pimp because he gets bored running a night club. Better yet, he sells it to The Penguin, who transforms it into the infamous Iceberg Lounge.

Any of these ideas would be 50 times better than a fake Joker creating Harley and have been running around in SS fooling everyone. So good that he even fooled Batman, too. That is BS.

Except now she's a superhero because of feminism or something.

What ever the reason she always ends up back with Joker.

 

[Boom]

The tattoos can easily be explained away with a nice long chemical bath.

As for his personality, if you subscribe to Morrison's take on the character, he has no set personality. He literally reinvents himself.

 

[TheVileOne]

Not remotely the same. Pym and Ultron are not dependant on each other's existence as characters. Neither one has any kind of emotional attachment or dependancy. There's no co-dependancy there like there is with Harley for Joker. Harley exists because she loves the Joker. The real Joker. Apart from Stark creating Ultron, nothing was different about Ultron's characterization because he doesn't care about who created him. He just sees himself as better than humanity and wants to eradicate it. Harley on the other hand always needs the Joker.

That's your opinion. I believe they are, just as much as Harley Quinn and Joker.

Of course it can. Just skip ahead several months or a year for the next time we see the Joker, and in that time he could have had the tattoos surgically removed. Simple as that. He can stop acting like a pimp because he gets bored running a night club. Better yet, he sells it to The Penguin, who transforms it into the infamous Iceberg Lounge.

That makes no sense.

Any of these ideas would be 50 times better than a fake Joker creating Harley and have been running around in SS fooling everyone. So good that he even fooled Batman, too. That is BS.



What ever the reason she always ends up back with Joker.

Any of these ideas would've been better than what actually happened in these movies, but they still happened. I think my idea is still better than what we were forced to sit through.

 

[The Joker]

That's your opinion. I believe they are, just as much as Harley Quinn and Joker.

I don't see any solid reasoning to believe that, but ok.

That makes no sense.

How so?

It also makes a lot more sense than some guy who was able to impersonate the real Joker that he fooled everyone, including Batman, despite dressing and acting totally different to how the real Joker usually acts. And where was the real Joker for all this time while this impostor was running around in his name, running a criminal empire, and tarnishing his name with his pimp gangster looks and behavior?

Any of these ideas would've been better than what actually happened in these movies, but they still happened. I think my idea is still better than what we were forced to sit through.

Don't get me wrong, I am no fan of what we were given at all, but the Joker impostor idea is just nonsensical, and many people have to be made to look like idiots for it to work. Not to mention it ruins Harley's back story.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I don't support Joker impostor idea either. It's just impossible to sell, it damages all characters further and I think there's no need in that. I'm against Leto staying. The best option for me - recast Leto and ignore SS in future films. Don't mention or reference it.

But with Ayer directing Gotham City Sirens or whatever they call it... Leto will get additional support and they will continue to push this gangbanger style.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

As for his personality, if you subscribe to Morrison's take on the character, he has no set personality. He literally reinvents himself.

There are few constants when it comes to the Joker. Chaotic spontaneity, irreverent showmanship, and evil.

So yeah, they could literally do a "different take" of the Joker for every film in the DCEU going forward and it would still be the Joker.

 

[hellblazer103]

The tattoos can easily be explained away with a nice long chemical bath.

Not really, considering we saw him take a dive in the chemicals and it did absolutely NOTHING to his tattoos.

 

[Boom]

Not really, considering we saw him take a dive in the chemicals and it did absolutely NOTHING to his tattoos.

He wasn't submerged for very long.

Have him spend a half hour in there and see what it does.

 

[metaphysician]

Ehh... to say that Pym and Ultron aren't codependent is not really accurate. Their whole history is a mess of oedipal issues and family dysfunction. The reason the movie version still worked is that Ultron still had that essential basis, they just changed *who* he had the screwed up relationship with.

 

[FunkMiller]

We're stuck with tattooed juggalo Joker in this iteration. Best we just accept it. Same way we're stuck with murdery Batman & miserable Superman. Nothing is going to change in this DCEU. They've committed to their course. Minor alterations may be made, but the narrative tone, circumstances, and broad characterisations are set. Changes will only come with a soft or hard reboot if JL & WW do badly, and a new creative team is brought in. That's the cold, hard reality of it.

 

[Greens]

He wasn't submerged for very long.

Have him spend a half hour in there and see what it does.

It did bleach Harleen's skin in that short time, didn't it?

I do think your explanation, whether it was facetious or not, is the best in-universe solution.

 

[redfirebird2008]

He wasn't submerged for very long.

Have him spend a half hour in there and see what it does.

Pretty sad we have to speculate on ways to fix this. Too bad they didn't handle it right in the first place.

 

[Boom]

Honestly, it's as I've said before. They could completely redesign him and offer absolutely no explanation for it, and I wouldn't bat an eye. I'd just be thrilled that I didn't have to look at that eyesore of a design anymore.

 

[shauner111]

It won't happen though. Let's just sit in a circle and pray for a reboot.

 

[Boom]

I wouldn't mind if we never saw him again. Give us Penguin, Riddler, and/or Hugo Strange.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I said this before, they were temporary "tattoos" kids get. There. Not even the Joker is crazy enough to really tattoo 'damaged' on his forehead.

 

[Wildcard]

Since they aren't going to change Leto's act, the point is you have to change Leto. Just say he wasn't the real Joker.

Would be pointless to do so when he's been established as having history with Batman. What with him killing Robin and all.

They're not gonna re-design him. The solution is simply better writing.