The Jared Leto is The Joker(?) Thread

[hellblazer103]

Honestly, I could do without seeing the Joker again. I know I'm probably alone in that, but there it is. I'm just so turned off by damn near everything about this take.

Even if it were a different take?

 

[The Joker]

Honestly, I could do without seeing the Joker again. I know I'm probably alone in that, but there it is. I'm just so turned off by damn near everything about this take.

If you're talking about the current Leto version version, then I agree. But a different take I would welcome with open arms, assuming it's good of course.

 

[Boom]

Even if it were a different take?

I'm not naive enough to think that they'd completely revamp the character, so there's really no point in entertaining the notion.

 

[hellblazer103]

 

[Boom]

Besides, if you want to completely revamp the character, you might as well recast the role. Leto played him the way he wanted to play him. I doubt he'd be keen to come back if the underlying message was, "Yeah, what you did last time didn't work. Go against your instincts and play it differently."

To think what could have been:

Spoiler

 

[Wildcard]

He doesn't have to necessarily switch up every single choice he's made, but under Affleck I believe he'd channel a far better performance because Affleck knows the source material and understands the Joker in depth like he does Batman, and not just on the surface like David Ayer.

 

[Boom]

He doesn't have to necessarily switch up every single choice he's made, but under Affleck I believe he'd channel a far better performance

Ayer has gotten plenty of strong performances out of his past films. Hell, Fury alone has at least three.

Ayer wrote a bad script. I think most of us can agree on that. But I keep seeing this idea being perpetuated that just because fans were underwhelmed with Leto's Joker, it means Ayer cannot control his actors or channel good performances out of them. That is categorically false.

In fact, it's his work with actors that I'm sure excited most of us about his involvement in the film. And honestly, if this is the best he could do with Leto's performance, then that's troubling. I really don't see some magical scenario where Leto delivers a great Joker. A better script would yield better dialogue, but you could swap in Ledger's dialogue from TDK and I'd still imagine a **** performance. The characterization is the biggest issue, not just the words he's saying.

Besides, who's to say Affleck didn't love what Ayer and Leto did with the character? In fact, I'm fairly certain he said that he did.

because Affleck knows the source material and understands the Joker in depth like he does Batman, and not just on the surface like David Ayer.

A lot of assumptions being made here. The truth of the matter is we do not know the true extent of Affleck's Batman geekdom. What evidence is there to suggest that he understands the source material and depth of these characters more than Ayer, who actually researched Suicide Squad comics when writing the script?

Remember. Affleck was on board with a Batman who didn't seem to care about killing criminals, and who plotted the assassination of Superman.

 

[Wildcard]

I'm certainly not citing that Ayer is completely incapable of channeling good performances from actors. No, not at all. I simply mean that here he was not able to do so. Look at Cara's performance, for instance, or how Killer Croc growled more than anything else. And Adewale is a terrific actor capable of chewing up the scenery (no pun intended) when it's good.

Simply put, I do believe for the time constraint he was in, and for how WB is trying to rush in putting the DCEU together, it presented many problems in the way of characterization and how he presented everyone.

Well, to be fair, it's not as if being a killer is totally out of character for Batman, especially when they're taking loose inspiration from TDKR.

I'm not claiming Affleck to be the end all be all of Batman lore, just that he'd likely be more capable in getting a stronger performance out of Leto due to him being a stronger writer and director (imo, anyway).

Ayer is a good guy and a great filmmaker, he just simply dropped the ball in a lot of respects and I have more faith in Affleck to deliver better for the characters of the Bat-verse.

 

[Boom]

Rushing out a shooting script in six months and WB basically telling him to make do probably didn't help matters.

But truthfully, I didn't see anything too out of line with any of the characterizations on paper. Even the Joker being a bit lovesick for Harley has precedence in the animated series at least. If I look at just the dialogue and characterization as written in the script (as ****** as those might have been), it read like the Joker.

But any idiot can overact lines of dialogue with over-the-top gestures and forced laughter, and claim that they're in keeping with the spirit of the Joker. But from a professional actor, I expect more nuance and control. I expect them to know how to guide their own performance and draw a flesh-and-blood being from it. And sometimes, an actor can elevate the material they're working with. Such is not the case here.

 

[Boom]

EDIT: Double

 

[Brother Jack]

But any idiot can overact lines of dialogue with over-the-top gestures and forced laughter, and claim that they're in keeping with the spirit of the Joker. But from a professional actor, I expect more nuance and control. I expect them to know how to guide their own performance and draw a flesh-and-blood being from it. And sometimes, an actor can elevate the material they're working with. Such is not the case here.

Yeah, that's the biggest problem with Leto's Joker in terms of performance. There's no center to it. It just feels like Leto hamming it up take after take without semblance of consistency. Leto's a good actor but everything about it was the epitome of trying too hard, especially with regards to the behind the scenes lunacy, which of course had zero bearing on the final product.

 

[miltonh]

Yeah, that's the biggest problem with Leto's Joker in terms of performance. There's no center to it. It just feels like Leto hamming it up take after take without semblance of consistency. Leto's a good actor but everything about it was the epitome of trying too hard, especially with regards to the behind the scenes lunacy, which of course had zero bearing on the final product.

Tbh Leto seems like someone who likes himself A LOT and takes him too seriously. I think you can see signs why in the end he played the Joker this way. lol. Would he come back if Affleck changed the design and told him to play it differently? I don't know but many could be too good. However in my eyes he had his chance and wasted it so personally I'd rather call other actors. After all in comic books the Joker always transformed in one way or another.

 

[Boom]

Maybe I'm just a cynic these days, but the BTS footage of everyone talking about how in-character Leto was had my eyes rolling out of their sockets.

"I realized I wasn't talking to Jared. I was actually talking to The Joker!"

Ahuh.

 

[Auteur]

Haha. Everyone made a big song and dance about Leto "going method" and he was utter dog s***e in the film.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

because affleck knows the source material and understands the joker in depth like he does batman

...........huh?

Well, to be fair, it's not as if being a killer is totally out of character for Batman, especially when they're taking loose inspiration from TDKR.

.........huh?

 

[Greens]

Haha. Everyone made a big song and dance about Leto "going method" and he was utter dog s***e in the film.

WB should let the films speak for themselves. No talking a big game about being director-friendly and making "movies with superheroes in them", or licking the heels of certain actors and directors before the movie is out. It just adds to the embarrassment. They obviously think their bragging rights from the Dark Knight trilogy carry over to the DCEU.

 

[Flint Marko]

Maybe I'm just a cynic these days, but the BTS footage of everyone talking about how in-character Leto was had my eyes rolling out of their sockets.

"I realized I wasn't talking to Jared. I was actually talking to The Joker!"

Ahuh.

It's not just you. A ton of comedians on twitter kept making fun of Leto's behind the scenes "antics" months before the movie was even released.

"Oh Christ, what now" - everyone else on the set of SUICIDE SQUAD, under their breath, whenever Jared Leto entered a room

In preparation for his role as the joker, Jared Leto printed out the Wikipedia article on method acting, and also the one on heath ledger

Jared Leto: Live spelt backwards is evil
David Ayer: (in a heap on the floor, shaking and sobbing pitifully) I didn't sign up for this

jared leto: hey youve got something on ur shirt
director: wait where, i dont-
jared: *flicks nose*
director: jesus ive created a monster....

 

[hellblazer103]

" You .... sent me a used condom ? "

" HAH, HEH...HEH....HEH.... "

" But .... but what does that have to do with The Joker ?!?! "

" RrrrRAAH, HEH, HEH....HEH...HEH....aaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAH "

 

[Wildcard]

...........huh?

I would expect Affleck is more versed with Batman lore than Ayer, thus would be capable of giving a better story involving the Joker.

.........huh?

If you've read TDKR there's no "huh." I'm not saying Batman is painted as a killer in it, but he was a bit more unpredictable than usual....even seemed delusional at times (probably from the combo his age + new injuries) and there was that instance where he burned the Joker's body to make an escape....

Point is, from darker interpretations like TDKR to Batman '89 and so on, Affleck's Batman is not the first to kill without hesitation and it doesn't suggest he's out of touch with the character.

 

[Artorias]

So my idea for a Batman solo with The Joker.

Starts off like Arkham Asylum with Batman escorting a captured Joker to the Asylum only to quickly realise he's somehow managed to infect most of Gotham's populace with a deadly contagion and the only cure is in his blood. At the same time however a mystery assassin (Deathstroke) breaks into Arkham and let's all the inmates out, stating one thing: whoever kills The Joker gets their freedom and $100 million. So Batman has one goal: get The Joker out of Arkham, alive. At the same time Harley and Joker's thugs also attempt their own rescue and all hell breaks loose. Batman and Joker have to go through Batman's entire rogues gallery together and escape all the while Batman has to watch his back with the most unlikely of alliances.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Affleck let Snyder mutilate Batman's character. Teamed up with Geoff Johns, who sucks at writing Batman. Doesn't seem like much of a Batman guru.

Your second point is just confused. You claimed TDKR Batman is a killer, but now concede he isnt? And, yes, I have read TDKR. My reaction is still appropriate.

No. Being totally complicit in letting Snyder take a **** on Batman doesn't suggest he is out of touch with the character. But it doesn't suggest the outrageous claims you made on the last page other.

 

[Wildcard]

Whatever.

I want to see what Affleck does with Joker and I'm being questioned/critiqued over it. Like, you just get over it at some point.

 

[Wildcard]

Whatever.

I want to see what Affleck does with Joker and I'm being questioned/critiqued over it. Like, you just get over it at some point.

 

[hellblazer103]

I see more Joker in this less-than-two-minute video than the entirety of Leto in Suicide Squad.

[YT]0Fk2BaM1la0[/YT]

 

[batfreakforever]

Ayer has gotten plenty of strong performances out of his past films. Hell, Fury alone has at least three.

Ayer wrote a bad script. I think most of us can agree on that. But I keep seeing this idea being perpetuated that just because fans were underwhelmed with Leto's Joker, it means Ayer cannot control his actors or channel good performances out of them. That is categorically false.

In fact, it's his work with actors that I'm sure excited most of us about his involvement in the film. And honestly, if this is the best he could do with Leto's performance, then that's troubling. I really don't see some magical scenario where Leto delivers a great Joker. A better script would yield better dialogue, but you could swap in Ledger's dialogue from TDK and I'd still imagine a **** performance. The characterization is the biggest issue, not just the words he's saying.

Besides, who's to say Affleck didn't love what Ayer and Leto did with the character? In fact, I'm fairly certain he said that he did.


A lot of assumptions being made here. The truth of the matter is we do not know the true extent of Affleck's Batman geekdom. What evidence is there to suggest that he understands the source material and depth of these characters more than Ayer, who actually researched Suicide Squad comics when writing the script?

Remember. Affleck was on board with a Batman who didn't seem to care about killing criminals, and who plotted the assassination of Superman.

But motives for killing Superman made sense 100%.