The Kennedy Thread

[Ketwol]

I was watching JFK (Oliver Stone's movie) a couple of days ago & it really blew my mind away to think the U.S. is actually capable of murdering a person, let alone its own Prez. My question is how many here believe it was a government conspiracy to kill JFK ; or do you believe it was just 1 shooter???? IMO i do think it was a conspiracy. What about you??????

 

[Zarathi]

anything is possible,
just be careful of your words,
you may find yourself a descredited man

 

[Majin Boo]

 

[web-slinger]

For longer than I can remember, I've believed it was a government conspiracy responsible for the assassination of JFK. However, I watched a special on TV the other day, that outlined every shred of evidence supporting a conspiracy.

First of all, it proved that the audio recording causing some to believe there was another shooter on the grassy knoll was mis-interpreted, and that the only shooter was in the book depository.

Second, it went through every bit of the evidence in Stone's movie, and proved it all to be fabricated for the context of the movie. They also revealed the obsession DA Jim Garrison had with proving a conspiracy, even going so far as to grow hysterical when one of his key witnesses was discredited.

After watching that, I'm beginning to question my belief in a larger conspiracy, especially one founded by high-ranking officials in our government.

However, there are still questions left unanswered. Why did Jack Ruby have Oswald taken out in later years? Does this signify an involvement by the mob?

As Peter Jennings, the host, put it though, our desire to see something more in JFK's assassination probably stems from a desire for justice. We can't understand how a great man like JFK could be killed by a pathetic little nothing like Lee Harvey Oswald. Therefore, we try to convince ourselves that JFK died for something. That there was a reason behind his death. When in fact, it may have just been one guy with convoluted morals and a sniper rifle.

 

[Majin Boo]

the cuban immigrants did it.

 

[Tukiluka]

Was there a conspiracy to kill Kennedy? Most likely, I'd say yes. Was Lee Harvey Oswald more than the "loser" many people believe he was? Yes. He had some pretty damn interesting credentials no matter what.

The movie JFK is a great MOVIE. But it is only a movie. While I think it plants the seed of inquiry that we should all have regarding the assasination, it is indeed quite flawed. Garrison probably was on a witch hunt, but he did at least raise interesting questions.

My personal theory is kinda along the lines of the movie. I think that higher ups in the government (CIA, Joint Chiefs, etc) were angry at Kennedy's handling of the Bay of Pigs. Also, while Kennedy was very much a part of the system, he was threatening to reign in some of the sacred cows in America at that time (CIA, FBI, etc.). Factions of the CIA, allied with the Mafia on a lower level, could have done such a thing. As is brought up in the movie, Lyndon Johnson, J. Edgar Hoover and Richard Nixon were probably involved in any cover up after the fact. Not because they were in on it, but because they knew their own power would be threatened if they let harm come to the system that gave them the power they enjoyed. And if the public knew the government had killed their elected leader, the sytem as we know it would have collapsed.

No matter what happened, it's pretty interesting to speculate.

 

[Ketwol]

Originally posted by web-slinger
For longer than I can remember, I've believed it was a government conspiracy responsible for the assassination of JFK. However, I watched a special on TV the other day, that outlined every shred of evidence supporting a conspiracy.

First of all, it proved that the audio recording causing some to believe there was another shooter on the grassy knoll was mis-interpreted, and that the only shooter was in the book depository.

Second, it went through every bit of the evidence in Stone's movie, and proved it all to be fabricated for the context of the movie. They also revealed the obsession DA Jim Garrison had with proving a conspiracy, even going so far as to grow hysterical when one of his key witnesses was discredited.

After watching that, I'm beginning to question my belief in a larger conspiracy, especially one founded by high-ranking officials in our government.

However, there are still questions left unanswered. Why did Jack Ruby have Oswald taken out in later years? Does this signify an involvement by the mob?

As Peter Jennings, the host, put it though, our desire to see something more in JFK's assassination probably stems from a desire for justice. We can't understand how a great man like JFK could be killed by a pathetic little nothing like Lee Harvey Oswald. Therefore, we try to convince ourselves that JFK died for something. That there was a reason behind his death. When in fact, it may have just been one guy with convoluted morals and a sniper rifle.

Jack Ruby killed Oswald the very next day...following the killing. Not in later years as you say.

 

[Magneto29]

I was watching one of the specials in History Class and it talked about how it was the French and Chicago mafia. They had three guys, 2 back and 1 front. They even had eye witnesses to the one in the front, who was wearing a police uniform. The showed a picture that someone took in which you can even see the guy in uniform fireing. They interviewed a guy who video taped it, but the gun-men took suposedly took it away from him. It was one of the ones on the History channel.

 

[C. Lee]

Knew the damn French had to be behind it.....freedom fries for everyone!!!!

 

[Immortalfire]

i do think it was a conspiracy. What about you??????

I think conspiracy theorists have too much time on hand

 

[Shifty]

JFK fired the head of the CIA, and who was one of the members on the Warren Commission? The former head of the CIA.

The movie is great, but it isn't 'the truth'. However it does bring up the question of the magic bullet theory. One shot was the fatal head shot, one shot hit the street curb and the other shot apparently went through JFK and Connolly and was in prestine condition after it was found in a hospital stretcher.

Re-inact that.

 

[MJZ]

Stone's film was a joke and so was Jim Garrison in real life. There was no conspiracy, you bleeding idiots. It doesn't sell a lot of books to come out with the truth and say that Oswald acted alone. However, Gerald Posner DID do such a thing with his book Case Closed, and he, his wife, and publisher, received constant harassment from conspiracy kooks and was even accused of working for the CIA. However, the media hailed his book and it's never been convincingly challenged. All the declassifed documents and advances in science and technology have only served to further solidify his conclusions. I'm glad to see someone mentioned the Peter Jennings special.

Like the old saying goes, "Great events often have small causes."

 

[MJZ]

Originally posted by slinger
JFK fired the head of the CIA, and who was one of the members on the Warren Commission? The former head of the CIA.

The movie is great, but it isn't 'the truth'. However it does bring up the question of the magic bullet theory. One shot was the fatal head shot, one shot hit the street curb and the other shot apparently went through JFK and Connolly and was in prestine condition after it was found in a hospital stretcher.

Re-inact that.

They've re-enacted that numerous times. In fact, I think they did that on the Jennings show. And guess what? It's what actually happened.

Oh, and JFK isn't dead. I spotted him in a pick-up with Elvis just last week .

 

[Malice]

Occam’s Razor

More often than not, the simplest explanation is the right one.

 

[LucidParody]

There was never any mystery of who shot John F Kennedy
Just a man with something to prove
Slightly bored, and severely confused
He steadied his rifle, with his target in the center
And became famous on that day in November.

For a while, I thought LBJ was the only person with the motive, means and opportunity to kill JFK. While I admire LBJ [the person, not the policies], LBJ is not that good at covering his tracks. There simply is no evidence to substantiate anything but a lone shooter. As a old gov't prof of mine used to say, “Where's the evidence?”

 

[Mr Parker]

Originally posted by Tukiluka
Was there a conspiracy to kill Kennedy? Most likely, I'd say yes. Was Lee Harvey Oswald more than the "loser" many people believe he was? Yes. He had some pretty damn interesting credentials no matter what.

The movie JFK is a great MOVIE. But it is only a movie. While I think it plants the seed of inquiry that we should all have regarding the assasination, it is indeed quite flawed. Garrison probably was on a witch hunt, but he did at least raise interesting questions.

My personal theory is kinda along the lines of the movie. I think that higher ups in the government (CIA, Joint Chiefs, etc) were angry at Kennedy's handling of the Bay of Pigs. Also, while Kennedy was very much a part of the system, he was threatening to reign in some of the sacred cows in America at that time (CIA, FBI, etc.). Factions of the CIA, allied with the Mafia on a lower level, could have done such a thing. As is brought up in the movie, Lyndon Johnson, J. Edgar Hoover and Richard Nixon were probably involved in any cover up after the fact. Not because they were in on it, but because they knew their own power would be threatened if they let harm come to the system that gave them the power they enjoyed. And if the public knew the government had killed their elected leader, the sytem as we know it would have collapsed.

No matter what happened, it's pretty interesting to speculate.

I just got back from Dallas a couple weeks ago for the 40th anniversary of the JFK assassination.What Tuliluka said is so very close to the truth.I know a history teacher that has been researching the case for 37 years now and I agree with him that the movie is very close to the truth on what really happened. When Kennedy decided to withdraw from vietnam,that was the final straw for the CIA to want him to be removed because LBJ reversed kennedys withdrawal plan and a full esculation of war was the result.Nixon,Hoover and LbJ were accomplices after the fact.Many people saw a 2nd guman behind the picket fence and the warren commission totally ignored or did not call people to the stand who had a story that did not go along with their own version.People who did reveal seeing a gunman behind the fence all wound up as mysterious deaths.I have talked with witnesses myself over the years that have said their testimony was totally ignored.The warren commission was the biggest con job and lie of the century.People who believe in that fairy tale warren commission report that Oswald did it, are extremely naive.There is not one shread of evidence to proove that Lee Harvey Oswald could POSSIBLY have pulled the trigger. the movie was defenitely a hell of a lot closer to the truth than the warren commission report is.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

*Mr. Parker* not having webbshooters in the Spider-Man movie is the reason that JFK was killed.

 

[Mr Parker]

Originally posted by MJZ
Stone's film was a joke and so was Jim Garrison in real life. There was no conspiracy, you bleeding idiots. It doesn't sell a lot of books to come out with the truth and say that Oswald acted alone. However, Gerald Posner DID do such a thing with his book Case Closed, and he, his wife, and publisher, received constant harassment from conspiracy kooks and was even accused of working for the CIA. However, the media hailed his book and it's never been convincingly challenged. All the declassifed documents and advances in science and technology have only served to further solidify his conclusions. I'm glad to see someone mentioned the Peter Jennings special.

Like the old saying goes, "Great events often have small causes."

Actually its the warren commission thats a total joke and Garrison was close to the truth back then.Gerald Posner is such a pathectic liar its not even funny.That book CASE CLOSED is so full of holes and lies its unreal.All the classified documents and sceince have actually done nothing but prove oswald could not possibly have pulled the trigger.You cant believe anything the major media tells you,if you did your research,you would see that POSNERs law firm DOES work for the CIA also.that Peter Jennings special was just more propaganda to fool people like you because they know they CAN fool you.

 

[Mr Parker]

I SEE SPIDEY take your spiderman discussion to the spiderman section,this isnt the section to talk about that stupid movie.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Originally posted by Mr Parker
I SEE SPIDEY take your spiderman discussion to the spiderman section,this isnt the section to talk about that stupid movie.

no, you mess with me, i mess with you

 

[wobbly]

Was there a conspiracy?
Well, thanks to my Dad's fascination in the matter Ive seen a good number of films and documentaries handling the assasination and imo, based on all I've seen heard and read (both fact and fiction), I'd have to say yes.

There are a number of suspects who could have been involved, all with motive and opportunity from the CIA, FBI, Mafia to Big Business, but any suggestions on just who did what where and when requires speculation rather than hard evidence.

But its when you do examine the hard evidence that the argument for Oswald acting alone (or acting at all) falls apart.

According to the Warren commission Oswald allegedly fired off 3 shots from a dodgy rifle in less than 7 seconds, scoring 2 direct hits (one of them the infamous 'magic bullet') missing with the other. Scoring 2 hits on a moving target in the same time from the same rifle is a feat even top marskmen have trouble emulating, and at odds with the records showing Oswald's rifle skills were known from his army career to be nowhere near up to such a task.

Then the aforementioned Magic Bullet, concocted by the commission to get around the problem that if a fourth shot had been fired they would have been forced to admit there had to be a second shooter, and therefore a conspiracy.
This bullet apparently struck JFK in the back approximately 3-5 inches below the top of his right shoulder making a hole that was described during the autopsy as being at approximately a 45 - 60 degrees downward angle. This bullet then went upward, exited his throat and then returned to it original downward angle to strike the Governor.
This same bullet, having hit two bodies, passing through bone and cartilidge, was later found in implausibly pristine condition (conveniently connecting the bullet to the rifle found in the book depository).

And there's the Zapruder footage.
It shows that when hit by the fatal shot JFK's head jerks backwards, and matter is blown backwards.
It doesn't take a degree in physics to realise a bullet from behind (where Oswald was supposed to be) would have forced his head forwards, and blown his brain matter forwards.
Now I've read and heard debunkers try to explain this one, the best anyone's done is to suggest that Kennedy was wearing a brace on his back, which would have kept him rigidly upright even when hit by a shot from behind. All I can say is the next time you see a documentary showing the footage, make up your own mind about just which direction the bullet is spreading JFK's brain.

Anyway, even with these doubts about the only hard evidence there is, history still records (thanks to the Warren Commision) that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman.
The truth is that it has never been proven, never mind beyond 'reasonable doubt', that Oswald acted alone, or even acted at all, in the assasination, and sadly it never will.

 

[MJZ]

Originally posted by Mr Parker
Actually its the warren commission thats a total joke and Garrison was close to the truth back then.Gerald Posner is such a pathectic liar its not even funny.That book CASE CLOSED is so full of holes and lies its unreal.All the classified documents and sceince have actually done nothing but prove oswald could not possibly have pulled the trigger.You cant believe anything the major media tells you,if you did your research,you would see that POSNERs law firm DOES work for the CIA also.that Peter Jennings special was just more propaganda to fool people like you because they know they CAN fool you.

Please, you're one of the village idiots around here. If it was up to me, I would've banned you, your boyfriend bakerboy, spiderfreddie, and the rest of the trolls long ago.

 

[MJZ]

Originally posted by wobbly


Anyway, even with these doubts about the only hard evidence there is, history still records (thanks to the Warren Commision) that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman.
The truth is that it has never been proven, never mind beyond 'reasonable doubt', that Oswald acted alone, or even acted at all, in the assasination, and sadly it never will.

It was proven. Look into all these conspiracy nuts who've written books, films, docs,etc... Someone posted this on another board and it bears repeating:

Look at it this way. No conspiracy theory can account for all the facts of the case, leaving the conspiracy theorist groping for some nebulous, indeterminate plot against the president.

All the facts of the case can, however, be explained by supposing Oswald acted alone.

 

[Mr Parker]

Originally posted by MJZ
Please, you're one of the village idiots around here. If it was up to me, I would've banned you, your boyfriend bakerboy, spiderfreddie, and the rest of the trolls long ago.

typical insults when you got no counter argument to give,how pathectic.

 

[Mr Parker]

Originally posted by MJZ
It was proven. Look into all these conspiracy nuts who've written books, films, docs,etc... Someone posted this on another board and it bears repeating:

Look at it this way. No conspiracy theory can account for all the facts of the case, leaving the conspiracy theorist groping for some nebulous, indeterminate plot against the president.

All the facts of the case can, however, be explained by supposing Oswald acted alone.

they get labeled conspiracy nuts by the government just because they wont accept the lies and fabrication of the warren commission report.thats pretty stupid to call someone a conspiracy nut just because they wont accept the lies and want to know the truth.