The Libertarian Thread

[Steve Rogers]

I guess it depends on how you view success. But, personal responsibility is much better than the government being responsible for you.

So do you believe in any social support from the government at all?

 

[SuBe]

So do you believe in any social support from the government at all?

True Libertarians would say no. I believe that if the circumstances warrent it, so be it. But, you can't give Government Money (be cause the its not Government Money, it's taxpayer money) to someone too lazy to get a job. If that person has a disability, sure.

 

[bored]

It is practical, just not practiced. It is easier to give the Government more power, more money in the excuse of making lives easier. But is it right? I say no. The old adage: "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime." holds true. That is the same for Welfare, Personal Responsibility will get you out of any situation. The Goverment has no rights. The Government is the representive of the People, all rights begin there.

Know why that analogy doesn't fit? Any libertarian I've ever known (and there have been many) would tell you that it ain't the government's responsibility to even teach that man to fish.

 

[Steve Rogers]

True Libertarians would say no. I believe that if the circumstances warrent it, so be it. But, you can't give Government Money (be cause the its not Government Money, it's taxpayer money) to someone too lazy to get a job. If that person has a disability, sure.

Which is precisely why I don't support libertarianism. It's a lot like Social Darwinism. Sink or swim. I mean, giving handouts to lazy people? I agree with that being bad, but I don't think doing away with social programs such as welfare would be smart either.

 

[bored]

The issue there is what makes a person lazy? Welfare checks aren't handed out to everyone who doesn't feel like getting a job, like the opponents of the system would have you believe.

 

[Steve Rogers]

The issue there is what makes a person lazy? Welfare checks aren't handed out to everyone who doesn't feel like getting a job, like the opponents of the system would have you believe.

Not too mention, take away welfare from people who have nothing but welfare and what do you have? People with nothing. And what will people with nothing do to survive? Anything. Scary.

 

[bell110]

So do you believe in any social support from the government at all?

Very limited amount. Schooling is important. Even though our school system isn't the best (understatement), a free education is important for kids.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Very limited amount. Schooling is important. Even though our school system isn't the best (understatement), a free education is important for kids.

Does that include higher education? College and whatnot?

 

[bell110]

Does that include higher education? College and whatnot?

No, college should remain private. Many people get a degree and don't do anything with it anyways. Waste of money. Well, maybe not.

 

[teseract]

It is practical, just not practiced. It is easier to give the Government more power, more money in the excuse of making lives easier. But is it right? I say no. The old adage: "Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime." holds true. That is the same for Welfare, Personal Responsibility will get you out of any situation. The Goverment has no rights. The Government is the representive of the People, all rights begin there.

Like I said, very nice idea, but solely impractical and even something that would not be favorable.

 

[Steve Rogers]

No, college should remain private. Many people get a degree and don't do anything with it anyways. Waste of money. Well, maybe not.

But not all colleges are private. Let me clarify...do you think that students who cannot afford to go to school should get federal loans and grants to attend? Or do you think that people should have to pay out of their own pockets?

 

[bell110]

Loans and grants are fine. But college shouldn't be funded by the government for everybody to attend.

What about you? What do you think about public schooling?

 

[Steve Rogers]

Loans and grants are fine. But college shouldn't be funded by the government for everybody to attend.

What about you? What do you think about public schooling?

Yes, I think education should be available to all who want it.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

The funny thing is is that liberatarinism seems closer to the principals that the US was founded on than anything being practiced here today. And yet it is compared to communism and anarchism. Weird.

Probably because they simply aren't applicable today. The Jeffersonian America was homogeneous, rather agricultural society that's constitution only applied to white males who owned land. It's a lot easier to say "you can do essentially what you want as long as you don't invade the rights of others, including drugs, prostitutes, polluting" when you're group is that similar.

The words "life", "liberty" and "pursuit of happiness" are vague enough that each generation can redefine them to fit the times and place we live in.

 

[CorpusBlack]

The Libertarians need to create a stronger more viable 3rd party. I'm sick of the same old sh-t between Republicans and Democrats.

 

[bored]

No, college should remain private. Many people get a degree and don't do anything with it anyways. Waste of money. Well, maybe not.

But, as a Libertarian, shouldn't you believe it is somebody's right to waste that money however they please?

 

[bell110]

But, as a Libertarian, shouldn't you believe it is somebody's right to waste that money however they please?

Yes, you can waste YOUR money. Don't waste the money I put up through taxes.

 

[SuBe]

Yes, you can waste YOUR money. Don't waste the money I put up through taxes.

Agreed!

 

[CorpusBlack]

Yes, you can waste YOUR money. Don't waste the money I put up through taxes.

Here here.

 

[bored]

Yes, you can waste YOUR money. Don't waste the money I put up through taxes.

If somebody is serious enough about college that they will seek out grants/loans, I doubt they're going to be wasting the experience.

 

[CorpusBlack]

If somebody is serious enough about college that they will seek out grants/loans, I doubt they're going to be wasting the experience.

Pretty much every kid I went to high school got grants and loans and went to college. Most of them are bartenders/waiters and retail sales clerks now. One is a projectionist at the local cinema.

 

[bored]

Pretty much every kid I went to high school got grants and loans and went to college. Most of them are bartenders/waiters and retail sales clerks now. One is a projectionist at the local cinema.

That's their own fault. I know enough people who legitimately care about higher education who rely on those kinds of things to buy into the idea that they are a waste of money.

 

[MadHatterJones]

Curious: what's the Libertarian stance on immigration?

 

[CorpusBlack]

If somebody is serious enough about college that they will seek out grants/loans, I doubt they're going to be wasting the experience.

That's their own fault. I know enough people who legitimately care about higher education who rely on those kinds of things to buy into the idea that they are a waste of money.

Yes, but according to your own quote above, you said you doubt if they are serious that they will waste their experience. From what I see on a daily basis, more people waste their experience than those who don't. I can't even begin to name the people I know who were serious and did everything to better themselves and when they got out of college, their situation changed or the field they were trying to get in completely changed or some other variable. People themselves change too. I'd like to see the actual statistic of what percent of people who go to college for something specific that actually do that as their career. I'm sure it's very low.

 

[MadHatterJones]

I'd like to see the actual statistic of what percent of people who go to college for something specific that actually do that as their career. I'm sure it's very low.

I'm sure it is. I know a lot of people across the whole country actually that went to school, busted their @$$ and are now wasting their degree.