The Libertarian Thread

[Kelly]

Independents will move toward the Libertarian Party long before the Republican Party will......The $$$$$$ is still Right-Wing, Corporate.....

 

[bell110]

Primarily I think the popularity will come in the form of Libertarian minded people getting Republican nominations. As for the party itself it could only can gain popularity if we do hit "the greatest depression". People looking for answers will turn (hopefully) to more Austrian/Libertarian ideas and writers. There is already some evidence of this today with book sales.

It sucks that we would have to hit a great depression for people to change their ways. Unfortunately, the hard part would be getting Libertarians Republcan nominations. The religious right will not stand for that.

Bush was the guy people 'wanted to have a beer with'. Beyond that, I can't explain it.

LOL, that reminds me of what some comedian said. Greg Giraldo maybe. "Some of you are watching this in a bar right now. Look around. Do you see anyone that's presidential material?"

Citizens who associate themselves with the GOP I think are more open to Libertarian ideas especially the younger generations. The GOP will eventually have to listen to these people more if they ever hope to change news like this -> http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...l_republicans_have_lost_touch_with_their_base

I've always seen the base of the GOP as two symbiotic groups: The Rich and the Religious. The rich only care about being able to get rich, and the religious only care about having America be more "Godly" (what ever that means). They have different agenda that don't directely contradict each other. The religious right won't vote for a more libertarian candidate. The rich would have to follow suit because it's a large portion of the party, which means more votes.

As for the younger generation. I could see that. I'm a recovering Republican. But, i'm also a North Easterner (Born in NY, raise in the DC suburbs). I live in a more liberal environment compared to people living in the red states, so it's easier for me to empathize with the left. Plus, people tend to become more conservative with age. Or maybe they stay the same, and the world becomes more liberal. I just blew my mind

My fear is that if Libertarians become more of a force in politics, some of the more unsavoriy parts of the right...(Beck..cough)... will latch on to it and bastardize it.

Independents will move toward the Libertarian Party long before the Republican Party will......The $$$$$$ is still Right-Wing, Corporate.....

Yes, I agree with this. I'm also afraid of them bastardizing Libertarians too, if they ever get big.

 

[Paradoxium]

The GOP is the party of the Second Richest and Evangelicals. The Democrats are now the Richest and College Educated. Both are the same corporatist sellouts, with paternalistic tendencies of "I know how to live your life and spend your money" attitudes. Unless there are reforms made... the only way Libertarians will have a shot is if they go corrupt and sell out to corporatism somehow. Otherwise they are "crazy people" who are "unelectable".

 

[The Overlord]

Citizens who associate themselves with the GOP I think are more open to Libertarian ideas especially the younger generations. The GOP will eventually have to listen to these people more if they ever hope to change news like this -> http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...l_republicans_have_lost_touch_with_their_base

I still don't see evidence that they are not going to give a lot of power to the older social conservatives and social conservatism is a form of big government.

What evidence is there they planning on changing their policies, what is their plan to reduce the size of government?

 

[Thirdworld]

I still don't see evidence that they are not going to give a lot of power to the older social conservatives and social conservatism is a form of big government.

What evidence is there they planning on changing their policies, what is their plan to reduce the size of government?

Let's back up a little firstly I don't think they will take over the party but become more popular (which they currently are not @ all). The Tea parties and town halls were greatly organized within Libertarian organizations. The growing popularity to people like Ron Paul, Rand Paul and Peter Schiff (the last two running '10). Much more youth being interested in Libertarian Ideas (young republicans and even some more liberal), book sales and google searches of Austrian and libertarian minded people reaching new highs. Where were these ideas before?

To clarify I'm not saying they will take over the party overnight but it is moving toward Libertarianism. Old conservatives are deeply entrenched but I certainly think we are seeing the start of the change in the party. As for change in policy look at Rand and Peter's campaign. There are actually a couple of new Libertarians in the '10 under Republican. I suggest watching "Freedom Watch" because they are usually on that show. In fact that show (internet show really) is the best show in my opinion on Fox.

 

[The Overlord]

Let's back up a little firstly I don't think they will take over the party but become more popular (which they currently are not @ all). The Tea parties and town halls were greatly organized within Libertarian organizations. The growing popularity to people like Ron Paul, Rand Paul and Peter Schiff (the last two running '10). Much more youth being interested in Libertarian Ideas (young republicans and even some more liberal), book sales and google searches of Austrian and libertarian minded people reaching new highs. Where were these ideas before?

To clarify I'm not saying they will take over the party overnight but it is moving toward Libertarianism. Old conservatives are deeply entrenched but I certainly think we are seeing the start of the change in the party. As for change in policy look at Rand and Peter's campaign. There are actually a couple of new Libertarians in the '10 under Republican. I suggest watching "Freedom Watch" because they are usually on that show. In fact that show (internet show really) is the best show in my opinion on Fox.

You still have no solid evidence of this, this is just hearsay. None of this proves a trend, it seems like wishful thinking on your part, I think you are looking at this with rose colored glasses.

If Ron Paul was popular in the GOP, why didn't he win the nomination? Doesn't seem he is that popular.

It seem like any focus on Libertarianism in the GOP is just some cynical attempt to justify being in power again and they have no intention of keeping these promises once they regain power.

I need stronger then the conjuncture you have provided. Why should anyone believe the GOP believes in small government, until they release an extremely detailed plan explaining exactly what government sectors they plan to cut?

 

[StorminNorman]

The GOP is the party of the Second Richest and Evangelicals. The Democrats are now the Richest and College Educated. Both are the same corporatist sellouts, with paternalistic tendencies of "I know how to live your life and spend your money" attitudes. Unless there are reforms made... the only way Libertarians will have a shot is if they go corrupt and sell out to corporatism somehow. Otherwise they are "crazy people" who are "unelectable".

I think if the Libertarians could find their own Obama-like figure, with the way the internet has changed politics - they could find success.

Americans are tired of the two parties doing nothing and of government being too big. An exciting Libertarian candidate that doesn't make you think Bob Barr that can raise Ron Paul-like money can have real success.

 

[Backdrifter]

I was just thinking about if a Libertarian were actually to become President. I don't think that much of anything will get done because of the resistance that will be coming from Congress. It seems the wisest move to make strategically is to mobilize hundreds of candidates for the House and Senate and fill the legislative branch with Libertarians. After this is achieved, I think having a Libertarian president would have a greater benefit. A massive shift to Libertarianism isn't going to happen over night. It is going to take years to slowly seep in and replace what passes for conservatism today.

I, also, think this strategy is actually more in line with the Libertarian ideology. The Presidency was never designed as an office which creates policy. The goal of the Libertarian ideology is reduced the size of the government and to do it according to the processes and design of the government. To be true to the Constitution. That can only be achieved through changing policy and legislation. Congress is the place where this has to happen. Therefore, Congress is the real battleground.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Thirdworld]

@ Overlord, The Trend is both population becoming more anti big-gov and the economy of the United States becoming worse. Within 1-4 years when the dollar nears collapse as the government continually tries and fails with there programs people will be fed up. As crime, prices go up and jobs go down citizens will become more discontent will the GOV and perhaps involving violent incidents.

Trends research CEO http://www.lewrockwell.com/celente/celente19.1.html believes that a new party will form from this "Progressive Libertarians". GOP will IMO cater in those times to small government and those who don't will certainly have a backlash and will inspire many to actually keep these promises.

This of course is just a future projection however the tea parties and the shape of the dollar and the trend of where it is going is there. I hold the same cynicism as far as the GOP because right now it just like the DEMS are BIG GOV ussa. The only way they change if their political lives depended on it and at a point I think it will.

 

[The Overlord]

@ Overlord, The Trend is both population becoming more anti big-gov and the economy of the United States becoming worse. Within 1-4 years when the dollar nears collapse as the government continually tries and fails with there programs people will be fed up. As crime, prices go up and jobs go down citizens will become more discontent will the GOV and perhaps involving violent incidents. .

It seems like a real leap of logic to make that type of correlation, even Alan Greenspan has recently changed his mind about whether the market should be unregulated in reaction to this mess, so it seems this correlation is conjecture, not fact, because different people have different reactions to it.

Trends research CEO http://www.lewrockwell.com/celente/celente19.1.html believes that a new party will form from this "Progressive Libertarians". GOP will IMO cater in those times to small government and those who don't will certainly have a backlash and will inspire many to actually keep these promises.

That projection is merely conjecture, not evidence. You have not provided any evidence of that happening.

This of course is just a future projection however the tea parties and the shape of the dollar and the trend of where it is going is there. I hold the same cynicism as far as the GOP because right now it just like the DEMS are BIG GOV ussa. The only way they change if their political lives depended on it and at a point I think it will.

I don't trust the tea party movement, I'm not sure of their intentions, it seems like a lot of people in the tea parties have goals besides small government.

But why should I believe the GOP will reduce the size of government when didn't for the last 8 years and so far they presented no detailed plans as to how they would reduce government.

 

[Paradoxium]

Just letting some know, Sinclair has been calling about the major event count down. He is part of the inflationist camp (I am a deflationist). I believe it was the G20 meeting + the deadline on November 11th. From that point on, the dollar will supposedly keep dropping from today and onwards. So far it seems to have dropped quite a bit as it is.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dollar-slumps-versus-euro-as-gold-futures-soar-2009-11-09

This will be an interesting week.

 

[Backdrifter]

Why do you think the dollar is deflating?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I don't like the fiscal libertarian logic that big government is worse than big corporations. If you lweaken one the other will take over.

If I had to choose a master it would be government because it is the lesser of two evils. At least the people have some amount of control of government via democracy.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I agree with libertarians socially.

What adults do in private is there own business. That includes prostitution and doing drugs.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Drugs is one thing, but prostitution on the other hand should remain illegal. Far too shady and dangerous of a practice to allow.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Its no more dangerous than the porn industry.

what's so dangerous about a guy going into a brothel, picking a girl of his choice who gets std checks regularly?

Hookers always use condoms these days. They're more careful than the average one night stand.

what two consenting adults do behind closed doors is not the governments business.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Its no more dangerous than the porn industry.

what's so dangerous about a guy going into a brothel, picking a girl of his choice who gets std checks regularly?

Hookers always use condoms these days. They're more careful than the average one night stand.

what two consenting adults do behind closed doors is not the governments business.

The fact that prostitution is heavily linked to human trafficking, sexual slavery, and general abuse to women is reason enough for it to be illegal.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

That's illegal prostitution rings.

You don't have those problems in Nevada where it's legal and tightly controlled the way it should be.

 

[hippie_hunter]

That's illegal prostitution rings.

You don't have those problems in Nevada where it's legal and tightly controlled the way it should be.

It's legalized in the Netherlands and you still have the massive amounts of sexual slavery and human trafficking involved with prostitution. If you legalize prostitution, you're still going to have the street prostitutes with abusive pimps, you're still going to have people from Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe deceived and forced against their will to be prostitutes, etc.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

So why are those problems absent from the Nevada brothels?

 

[marcofthebeast]

I don't like the fiscal libertarian logic that big government is worse than big corporations. If you lweaken one the other will take over.

I'd choose the corporation. If a corporation does something you don't like you can stop buying their products and go elsewhere. If the Gov't does something you don't like they don't care because they get a piece of your check regardless.

 

[hippie_hunter]

So why are those problems absent from the Nevada brothels?

Just because there are legal brothels doesn't mean that there aren't problems in Nevada regarding prostitution.

Las Vegas has high rates of child prostitution and is one of the most likely destinations of human trafficking in the United States.

And the brothels in Nevada are said to be just as bad, if not worse, than pimps.

 

[Paradoxium]

Why do you think the dollar is deflating?

Money velocity is slowed to a crawl. Banks are hoarding a ton of money - if there is movement, it might as well not be in the system. Inflation is the net gain of both credit AND money supply. There has been an increase of money supply but credit contraction this on top of the money velocity.

Note we never had credit in the negative before until recently.

Note the piling of cash reserves - affects money velocity.

Although ultimately inflation is inevitable if things return to some level of normalcy in money velocity - spend more normally - we enter a inflationary depression. It is thus no surprise recent increase of consumer spending has been going up and the dollar index been going down. You can thank Bernanke's quantitative easing and Obama's stimulus.

Anyways, the G20 meeting was interesting.

China Signals That It May Allow Currency to Rise Against Dollar

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Just because there are legal brothels doesn't mean that there aren't problems in Nevada regarding prostitution.

There aren't problems in Nevada. The brothels are run like legitimate businesses. The girls get checked for diseases frequently. The girls are safe and pay taxes.

Las Vegas has high rates of child prostitution and is one of the most likely destinations of human trafficking in the United States.

Prositution is illegal in Las Vegas so it's a poor example of legalized prostitution. Many problems there are probably associated with the criminalization of prostitution.

And the brothels in Nevada are said to be just as bad, if not worse, than pimps.

The brothels are no where as bad as a pimp who has a woman in fear for her life and will beat her if she doesn't hand over all if not most of her hard earned earnings.

Legalized prostitution doesn't increase the victimization associated with prostitution. It lowers it.

It gives the girls a safe avenue to practice their trade.

 

[Paradoxium]

Americans are overpaid

This is one of the things deflation will bring. Mother of all paycuts. Either this happens or massive unemployment over the long term. Take your pick. Even if there is hyperinflation, in true value (based on purchase power and not nominal terms) to work pay, it will be a reduction. Oh this is on top of a tax increase over the board to sustain and payoff the debt by the current government.